TOTW: Running.. A failure to train. (Page 3)

ok guys....as Sargent Big Toe says in Stripes "lighten up Francis" :-)

 On my person experence, running is by far the hardest to get good at for me.  this comment is completely shaded by my background.  I swam in HS and college at a fairly high level.  Picking back up after 20 years has been a blast.  I raced road bikes for over 8 or 9 years in my 30's.  Getting back to big mileage weeks was fun.  Running consistantly for the first time in my life - crap this is hard.  If I came from a running background, I would have a completely different view on running.

I walked every race last year - at least a little.  I was injured all the time or fighting something.  I was training as hard (often too hard), yet i had to walk.  

Turn the page to this year, I ran the whole 10K at the Peachtree International and PR'ed by 20 minutes.  The point?  If you have no running background, it takes time to build the running endurance to always run every inch of a OLY or HIM or IM.  there is limits to how much you can train before injury takes over.

I get Ron's comments.  I think a little more context needs to be applied to the thread and comments relative to walking or not training enough to avoid walking.

I totally agree with this, and I'm glad you posted it.  It's kind of what I was trying to get at.  It takes time to make progress and sometimes you just want to get out and race, even if you aren't there yet.  You know?   So you might be slower than others, but you'll still finish and for me, it gives me the push to get better each time.

Through all of this discussion it appears that the real battle is should you train on the bike that will give you the energy left for the run or should you train the run so that you are more efficient and may not need as much leftover energy from the bike.  Certainly Brett's data indicates that properly training on the bike would give him more in the tank for the run.  One question that I have is how much impact (if any) does the fact that it is a three discipline event vs a run impact his mental approach to the run itself (ie psyched up for a run vs. psyched up for a swim, then bike, then a run).  Only Brett could answer that.

I think that training the bike like Brett combined with training the run for the distance and efficiency, you have a winning combo.  that being said, there are a ton of coaches out there that have alot more knowledge on the subject.

In regards to walking/running, etc, if I had trained my butt off for a year to do an Ironman, felt like hell off the bike and had to walk the entire run portion, I wouldn't stop and quit because I couldn't "run".  I would gut it out like Rutger Beke and call myself an Ironman upon crossing the finish line.  I may not have won, but I certainly didn't lose.  In my opinion, the race is part but not all of the triathlon journey.  The willingness to go out and train everyday, hours on end, regardless of weather, sacrificing everything else to prove to yourself that you can push yourself beyond your limits with a sole goal of finishing (walk or run), that the essence an Ironman, or any triathlete for that matter. Just my late Thursday philosophy.

Jon,

Great response and I will answer your questions as best as I can. As far as being "psyched up"  for a run vs swim/bike/run, there is certainly a difference there. That being said the two Half Marathons that I did in the Spring were "checkpoint" races for me to gauge my training and fitness for Gulf Coast, in fact had Courtney not talked me into it I probably wouldn't have done Alpharetta at all. I actually PR'ed that race by quite a bit coming off of a hard 52 mile bike the day before, so I wouldn't say that I was necessarily psyched to run the race (I hope that I answered your question...)

I still firmly believe that it is bike fitness that allows you to run well off the bike.

I do have a question for Ron T. (and this isn't to single you out or anything, I am just curious). At Gulf Coast this year how did your run compare to the '07 race? I know you came off marathon training for ING so you theoretically would have been in top running shape. Secondly how did your bike fitness compare between the two years also? I am just curious since you had such a great race in '07 and (by your own admission) not such a great race in '08.

Did you grow up a runner?  My observation would indicate that you did not but I may be way off base.  The reason I ask is that I believe that running is like any sport, you need to do it a lot to excel.  Some people (not me by the way), grew up running and developed great running technique (like a long time swimmer).  It becomes ingrained in their run and as a result, they may tend to not be as impacted by the little things on a run (breakdown in form, twinge in the knee etc) that would impact others.  They have perfected their stroke so to speak, so they can get by with less training on the run per se, or at least get up to speed easier.  This might be the reason that in your case that using running as your base developer of fitness made you perform better in GCT...it better developed your form and kept you from breaking down. 

In Brett's case, I have seen him run in races, it is so smooth it is like he is ice skating.  So I assume he did grow up as a runner.  Given that, then certainly the biggest bang for buck would be time on the bike, and that seems to be the case.

If we assume that these broad generalizations about you are true, then I think the answer to the original posted question really has to take into account the long term training history of the triathlete.  Did you grow up as a runner that may have ingrained great running form?  If so, then there is certainly a case that you can get more out of less training on the run and build your fitness on the bike.  This would appear to yield a better net result than training heavily on what you excel at.  Seems pretty intuitive, but certainly if actually thought through, can be a real benefit to training for the year.  Again, not a coach, just making observations and love to hear opinions.

Agreed.

I have been avoiding this thread.....out of guilt.  I know that, during the racing/summer season, I don't run enough.  My main thinking is that I have such a stong base from the off season (which is when I run ALL the time-2 1/2 marathons and a marathon this winter) that I just need to maintain in the summer.

Your thoughts on Bike Training VS Run Training?

I stink on the bike.  I'm slow as a turtle!  The more training on the bike that I can get the better.  I also think that, effort wise, biking is harder cardio-vascuolar wise. My heart rate is higher and stays higher at a lower effort. 

I seem to reap more benefits from the bike.  I lost 8 pounds in 6 weeks just focusing on the bike with no dietary changes.  My abs are also starting to really tighten up and feel strong.  Not to mention the fact that running is just harder on my knees than biking.

If applicable, why your run training is less than it should be.

The number one reason is time.  I LOVE to run!  It's so easy just to open the door and go, but I'm a stupid athlete.  I can't seem to figure out how to optimize my run work outs so that I don't have to run everyday to maintain/build.  I'm starting to figure out that speed/hill work outs are the way to go, but I have a tough time with the speed thing.  I've been running competitively since I was 7 y.o.  (I have picture of me finishing my first 5k with my mom).  However, I've always been slow and steady.  I've NEVER focused on speed (Yikes!).  Making this change is both physically and mentally difficult for me.  I usually look forward to my runs as relaxing and for recovery.

Have you walked in any Triathlon?

Oh lordy-lordy, yes!  My first tri, I literally elbowed and kneed my way through the run with no walk.  Since then, I've caved twice into walking.  Once because it was so $#^$%^*& hot.  The other because I was super-duper ill with a sinus infection.  Or these are my excuses at least.  The funny thing is, that even with the walking, my run spilts were 5k PRs (can you believe that sassiness?).  I'm so pysched for my next Sprint (next weekend).  I'm pumped to see what I can do in good health with the mental knowledge that I can grunt throught it for another pr!!!!!

Finally, do you intend to run more in the future?
I intend to run regularly for the rest of my life. I do think that I can continue to improve my running performance by doing more combo workouts (swim-run, bricks) focusing on speed, not distance.  At least until my off-season marathon training starts.

wmckean - 2008-09-11 10:35 PM My coach has mentioned to me several times that my efficiency on the bike makes me a better runner. High cadence, proper gears, all leave you fresh for the run. I'm certainly no expert, but I hope to put all this to the test come November

Is that what I'm doing wrong?  I have to figure out how to ride my bike to improve my run?  How interesting.  I think this validates my focus on the bike, at least until I get my technique down pat!

A good thread does cause some drama ... and I have to confess that there was some drama on the race course yesterday (The Nations Tri) as I was dog-cursing you beginning at mile 4 of the run - for being right about neglecting run volume (by mile 6 I was downright beligerent ).

In all seriousness, the amount of replies to the thread demonstrates how many people actually pay attention to and contribute to our Georgia forum ... which is a good thing.