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2008-01-04 1:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
MUL98 - 2008-01-04 1:58 PM

I know a lot of ordinary people - I don't want any of them in the white house. If its ok with everyone else, I would prefer we pick an extrodinary leader this time.



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2008-01-04 2:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 1:16 PM

Call me too tolerant for a Christian, but politics and religion do not mix well and I would prefer that it stayed that way.


Sounds pretty intolerant to me that you think we should keep religion out of politics.

And I'm still waiting for you to substantiate the claim that we bombed someone in the name of Jesus.
2008-01-04 2:17 PM
in reply to: #1134091

Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?

Bripod - 2008-01-04 3:10 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 1:16 PM Call me too tolerant for a Christian, but politics and religion do not mix well and I would prefer that it stayed that way.
Sounds pretty intolerant to me that you think we should keep religion out of politics. And I'm still waiting for you to substantiate the claim that we bombed someone in the name of Jesus.

 

Sorry, I don't understand how allowing freedom of religion is intolerant. Having a government attempting to legislate a certain religion's morality violates that freedom.

2008-01-04 2:21 PM
in reply to: #1134105

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 2:17 PM

Sorry, I don't understand how allowing freedom of religion is intolerant. Having a government attempting to legislate a certain religion's morality violates that freedom.



Nice straw-man! Whew, he blew right over didn't he? Saying "You can have your religion, just don't include it in politics" is intolerant.

Still waiting for you to substantiate your claim that we bombed someone "in the name of Jesus"
2008-01-04 2:30 PM
in reply to: #1133895

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?

MUL98 - 2008-01-04 12:58 PM
jdwright56 - 2008-01-04 7:40 AM While he did carry the social conservative vote in Iowa - which is a big part of the Republican Party here - I think that he got the win because of his "ordinary Joe" attitude. .
Is this really it? Didn't the whole "I feel like I could have a beer with the guy" approach to picking a president just give us 8 years of complete clusterf$#%&! This drives me crazy. Do people really want an "ordinary joe" as leader of the free world? I know a lot of ordinary people - I don't want any of them in the white house. If its ok with everyone else, I would prefer we pick an extrodinary leader this time.

 You're talking about 1992-2000 I would assume.

2008-01-04 2:37 PM
in reply to: #1132540

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
I think people look at the religous beliefs of our leaders because it gies some insight to their values and effects their decision making process. When religion is a strong facotr in a person's life I think they make most of their decisions based on what their religion says they should do. This would include leaders, if they make their everyday decisions based on religious morals and values why would it change in their leadership decisions.

The irony of it all is that while many people don't want to realize it, most major religions teach many of the same morals and values. The differences in values between a muslim, a catholic or a baptist are very small in the grad scheme of things. Individual issues may see differences but the same moral base provides the reasoning for both sides.

Too many people are willing to vote for one canidate because of his religion even though they may not realize that their are other canidates that would sit side by side in a pew.

Winning an election is not about saying the right thing on all of the issues, its about saying the thing that will bring in the most votes. If you focus on your strong religous values more then the next canidate, many of those votes will go your way regardless of the other issues.


2008-01-04 2:39 PM
in reply to: #1134105

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 2:17 PM

Bripod - 2008-01-04 3:10 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 1:16 PM Call me too tolerant for a Christian, but politics and religion do not mix well and I would prefer that it stayed that way.
Sounds pretty intolerant to me that you think we should keep religion out of politics. And I'm still waiting for you to substantiate the claim that we bombed someone in the name of Jesus.

 

Sorry, I don't understand how allowing freedom of religion is intolerant. Having a government attempting to legislate a certain religion's morality violates that freedom.

You seem to be quite fond of making unsubstantiated statements. When has our government, GWB or anybody else tried legislating religious morality? They might legislate ideas or concepts that stem from religion but I am sure that you yourself have done that unless you are in favor of murder being legal. Where do our murder laws essentially come from? Doesn't the Bible condem that activity?. You can certainly disagree with religious concepts and practicies but to say that religious individuals are to separate their political views from their religious ones is really not possible and I think the suggestion that people do that is what is intolerant.
2008-01-04 2:43 PM
in reply to: #1134183

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
wildee - 2008-01-04 3:39 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 2:17 PM

Bripod - 2008-01-04 3:10 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 1:16 PM Call me too tolerant for a Christian, but politics and religion do not mix well and I would prefer that it stayed that way.
Sounds pretty intolerant to me that you think we should keep religion out of politics. And I'm still waiting for you to substantiate the claim that we bombed someone in the name of Jesus.

 

Sorry, I don't understand how allowing freedom of religion is intolerant. Having a government attempting to legislate a certain religion's morality violates that freedom.

You seem to be quite fond of making unsubstantiated statements. When has our government, GWB or anybody else tried legislating religious morality? They might legislate ideas or concepts that stem from religion but I am sure that you yourself have done that unless you are in favor of murder being legal. Where do our murder laws essentially come from? Doesn't the Bible condem that activity?. You can certainly disagree with religious concepts and practicies but to say that religious individuals are to separate their political views from their religious ones is really not possible and I think the suggestion that people do that is what is intolerant.

You are spot on Mark, good post!

2008-01-04 2:48 PM
in reply to: #1133871

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2008-01-04 2:50 PM
in reply to: #1134183

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
wildee - 2008-01-04 2:39 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 2:17 PM

Bripod - 2008-01-04 3:10 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 1:16 PM Call me too tolerant for a Christian, but politics and religion do not mix well and I would prefer that it stayed that way.
Sounds pretty intolerant to me that you think we should keep religion out of politics. And I'm still waiting for you to substantiate the claim that we bombed someone in the name of Jesus.

 

Sorry, I don't understand how allowing freedom of religion is intolerant. Having a government attempting to legislate a certain religion's morality violates that freedom.

You seem to be quite fond of making unsubstantiated statements. When has our government, GWB or anybody else tried legislating religious morality? They might legislate ideas or concepts that stem from religion but I am sure that you yourself have done that unless you are in favor of murder being legal. Where do our murder laws essentially come from? Doesn't the Bible condem that activity?. You can certainly disagree with religious concepts and practicies but to say that religious individuals are to separate their political views from their religious ones is really not possible and I think the suggestion that people do that is what is intolerant.

I can see that Murder is wrong without religion.

My State Government passed a law to have prayer in school.  It is being fought in the court right now.  Though this year my child has to pray/moment of silence everyday before classes start.

Sooooooo.....ah nevermind

2008-01-04 2:51 PM
in reply to: #1133895

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?

MUL98 - 2008-01-04 1:58 PM
jdwright56 - 2008-01-04 7:40 AM While he did carry the social conservative vote in Iowa - which is a big part of the Republican Party here - I think that he got the win because of his "ordinary Joe" attitude. .

Is this really it? Didn't the whole "I feel like I could have a beer with the guy" approach to picking a president just give us 8 years of complete clusterf$#%&! This drives me crazy. Do people really want an "ordinary joe" as leader of the free world?

I know a lot of ordinary people - I don't want any of them in the white house. If its ok with everyone else, I would prefer we pick an extrodinary leader this time.

Most people make emotional buying decisions.



2008-01-04 3:00 PM
in reply to: #1132540

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
Doesn't starting a topic that goes 3 pages make you feel great?
2008-01-04 3:04 PM
in reply to: #1133641

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
leapdog - 2008-01-04 12:26 PM

The fact he's a marathon runner and knows how to commit and plan for 26.2 appeals to me. If he starts mandating that all kids become runners...now that's a problem.


Well put. I'm Conservative Christian, but I believe that religion is a choice and shouldn't be forced on anyone.

I do think that creationism should be offered in schools as a valid alternative to evolution. Evolution has been promoted in schools as the only viable "scientific" option. Children should have the opportunity to learn about what their families are teaching them - evolution or creationism.

2008-01-04 3:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
Bripod - 2008-01-04 11:25 AM
run4yrlif - 2008-01-04 8:40 AM

Here's my take:

"Evangelical Christians" (whatever that means) are supporting Huckabee because he's not Mormon.

I'd add to that "...and he's pro-life, and he's not a democrat."

But Romney meets those criteria, too.

2008-01-04 3:13 PM
in reply to: #1134216

Giver
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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
AddysDaddy - 2008-01-04 3:50 PM
wildee - 2008-01-04 2:39 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 2:17 PM

Bripod - 2008-01-04 3:10 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 1:16 PM Call me too tolerant for a Christian, but politics and religion do not mix well and I would prefer that it stayed that way.
Sounds pretty intolerant to me that you think we should keep religion out of politics. And I'm still waiting for you to substantiate the claim that we bombed someone in the name of Jesus.

 

Sorry, I don't understand how allowing freedom of religion is intolerant. Having a government attempting to legislate a certain religion's morality violates that freedom.

You seem to be quite fond of making unsubstantiated statements. When has our government, GWB or anybody else tried legislating religious morality? They might legislate ideas or concepts that stem from religion but I am sure that you yourself have done that unless you are in favor of murder being legal. Where do our murder laws essentially come from? Doesn't the Bible condem that activity?. You can certainly disagree with religious concepts and practicies but to say that religious individuals are to separate their political views from their religious ones is really not possible and I think the suggestion that people do that is what is intolerant.

I can see that Murder is wrong without religion.

My State Government passed a law to have prayer in school.  It is being fought in the court right now.  Though this year my child has to pray/moment of silence everyday before classes start.

Sooooooo.....ah nevermind

Plus...there's has been a big governmental effort to stop teaching evolution, and to include creation-based curriculum in science classes. If that's not legislation based on religion, then I don't know what is.

2008-01-04 3:26 PM
in reply to: #1132540

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?

I just read all three pages and here's what I get out of this thread - Huck is a regular guy and lots of talk about Christians.  What does he stand for?  Why should we vote for this guy?  Can someone answer that?

And before we start putting this guy in the White House, Karl Rove had a great quote that went something like..."Sure Iowa is important, but the total number of voters in the caucus was about the same as voters in Witchita, Kansas...blah, blah,"  C'mon guys, this is a fraction of the US population.

I'm personally embarassed that this is the caliber of people we have running for office, Dems or Repubs.  The one thing we talk about as a country is our hatred for these religious fanatics that run other countries...well, I guess we are joining the club.



2008-01-04 3:27 PM
in reply to: #1134223

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?

MUL98 - 2008-01-04 1:58 PM

Is this really it? Didn't the whole "I feel like I could have a beer with the guy" approach  just give us 8 years of complete clusterf$#%&! This drives me crazy.

No, it was the whole "I feel like I could do a line or two with the guy" approach to picking a president.

2008-01-04 3:39 PM
in reply to: #1134296

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
run4yrlif - 2008-01-04 3:13 PM
AddysDaddy - 2008-01-04 3:50 PM
wildee - 2008-01-04 2:39 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 2:17 PM

Bripod - 2008-01-04 3:10 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 1:16 PM Call me too tolerant for a Christian, but politics and religion do not mix well and I would prefer that it stayed that way.
Sounds pretty intolerant to me that you think we should keep religion out of politics. And I'm still waiting for you to substantiate the claim that we bombed someone in the name of Jesus.

 

Sorry, I don't understand how allowing freedom of religion is intolerant. Having a government attempting to legislate a certain religion's morality violates that freedom.

You seem to be quite fond of making unsubstantiated statements. When has our government, GWB or anybody else tried legislating religious morality? They might legislate ideas or concepts that stem from religion but I am sure that you yourself have done that unless you are in favor of murder being legal. Where do our murder laws essentially come from? Doesn't the Bible condem that activity?. You can certainly disagree with religious concepts and practicies but to say that religious individuals are to separate their political views from their religious ones is really not possible and I think the suggestion that people do that is what is intolerant.

I can see that Murder is wrong without religion.

My State Government passed a law to have prayer in school.  It is being fought in the court right now.  Though this year my child has to pray/moment of silence everyday before classes start.

Sooooooo.....ah nevermind

Plus...there's has been a big governmental effort to stop teaching evolution, and to include creation-based curriculum in science classes. If that's not legislation based on religion, then I don't know what is.

IMHO I believe that evolution and it's government mandate of it's teaching is itself legislating religion.  At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god and hence the big bang, etc which is an opinion about god making it a form of religion.  Yes I know that some forms of evolution belief include a god and the earths origin but that's not what I'm talking about so save those posts.  Your comment that there's an effort to stop teaching evolution and to include creation-based curriculum is a contradictory statement.  Is the movement to ban evolution teaching or to include creation-based curriculum because those are not one in the same.  Besides, isn't it intolerant to support the model that has been in existance for decades of evolution being taught in school as the way things are when a vast portion of the population support creationism.  If you lefties are tolerant, why wouldn't you support teaching both points of view?

2008-01-04 3:46 PM
in reply to: #1134364

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM

At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god ...

This is extremely inaccurate in it's depiction of both evolution and the beliefs of many devout people. I invite you to learn about the position of the Catholic Church on evolution for starters.

2008-01-04 4:05 PM
in reply to: #1134296

Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
run4yrlif - 2008-01-04 4:13 PM
AddysDaddy - 2008-01-04 3:50 PM
wildee - 2008-01-04 2:39 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 2:17 PM

Bripod - 2008-01-04 3:10 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-01-04 1:16 PM Call me too tolerant for a Christian, but politics and religion do not mix well and I would prefer that it stayed that way.
Sounds pretty intolerant to me that you think we should keep religion out of politics. And I'm still waiting for you to substantiate the claim that we bombed someone in the name of Jesus.

 

Sorry, I don't understand how allowing freedom of religion is intolerant. Having a government attempting to legislate a certain religion's morality violates that freedom.

You seem to be quite fond of making unsubstantiated statements. When has our government, GWB or anybody else tried legislating religious morality? They might legislate ideas or concepts that stem from religion but I am sure that you yourself have done that unless you are in favor of murder being legal. Where do our murder laws essentially come from? Doesn't the Bible condem that activity?. You can certainly disagree with religious concepts and practicies but to say that religious individuals are to separate their political views from their religious ones is really not possible and I think the suggestion that people do that is what is intolerant.

I can see that Murder is wrong without religion.

My State Government passed a law to have prayer in school.  It is being fought in the court right now.  Though this year my child has to pray/moment of silence everyday before classes start.

Sooooooo.....ah nevermind

Plus...there's has been a big governmental effort to stop teaching evolution, and to include creation-based curriculum in science classes. If that's not legislation based on religion, then I don't know what is.

Thank you, to the last two points. Trying to pass laws to ban abortion, stem cell research and shooting down laws trying to legalize gay marriage, all because "the Bible says it's wrong"; do I need to continue? And this has nothing to do with my stance or anyone's stance on these issues. Point is. My neighbor does not necessarily have the same religious beliefs and in this country, that is okay. So who am I or anyone else to try to impose my religious mores on him/her through law? Sorry, but that's total crap. Theocracies do not work - take a look at other parts of the world. And this country is slowly creeping towards that end - ironic for a country that was originally settled by those escaping religious persecution...

2008-01-04 4:05 PM
in reply to: #1133895

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?

MUL98 - 2008-01-04 10:58 AM
jdwright56 - 2008-01-04 7:40 AM While he did carry the social conservative vote in Iowa - which is a big part of the Republican Party here - I think that he got the win because of his "ordinary Joe" attitude. .
Is this really it? Didn't the whole "I feel like I could have a beer with the guy" approach to picking a president just give us 8 years of complete clusterf$#%&! This drives me crazy. Do people really want an "ordinary joe" as leader of the free world? I know a lot of ordinary people - I don't want any of them in the white house. If its ok with everyone else, I would prefer we pick an extrodinary leader this time.

And the extraordinary leader is..........................................................???

Not one of those people runnning from either party has proven extraordinary as a leader.



2008-01-04 4:08 PM
in reply to: #1134364

Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM [

IMHO I believe that evolution and it's government mandate of it's teaching is itself legislating religion.  At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god and hence the big bang, etc which is an opinion about god making it a form of religion.  Yes I know that some forms of evolution belief include a god and the earths origin but that's not what I'm talking about so save those posts.  Your comment that there's an effort to stop teaching evolution and to include creation-based curriculum is a contradictory statement.  Is the movement to ban evolution teaching or to include creation-based curriculum because those are not one in the same.  Besides, isn't it intolerant to support the model that has been in existance for decades of evolution being taught in school as the way things are when a vast portion of the population support creationism.  If you lefties are tolerant, why wouldn't you support teaching both points of view?

 

Evolution is not a "religious" belief any more than Shakespeare, or basketball or math. And I don't recall any of my science teachers starting out the conversation with "There is NO God, class, and that's why we evolved from monkeys". Besides, if you don't want your kids to learn about evolution, send them to a private Christian school. No one is forcing you to send your kids to public school. Once again, the beauty of a free country.

2008-01-04 4:08 PM
in reply to: #1134386

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
marmadaddy - 2008-01-04 4:46 PM
wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM

At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god ...

This is extremely inaccurate in it's depiction of both evolution and the beliefs of many devout people. I invite you to learn about the position of the Catholic Church on evolution for starters.

Mike Mike Mike... don't you read the biological research?  Every study has as a standard disclaimer, "Evolution necessarily mandates the denial of any divine being.  Read no further if you profess any religious beliefs, moron."

Brian 

2008-01-04 4:08 PM
in reply to: #1134386

Master
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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
marmadaddy - 2008-01-04 4:46 PM
wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM

At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god ...

This is extremely inaccurate in it's depiction of both evolution and the beliefs of many devout people. I invite you to learn about the position of the Catholic Church on evolution for starters.

No offense, but the Catholic Church's idea of "ensoulment" is largely debated too.  I think he is correct in the perception of evolution as being godless.  In all honesty, I think the bible is pretty clear that God created humans in His likeness, not in the likeness of an ameoba or ape. Just my $.02.

2008-01-04 4:08 PM
in reply to: #1134386

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Subject: RE: Can someone explain Mike Hackabee to me?
marmadaddy - 2008-01-04 3:46 PM
wildee - 2008-01-04 4:39 PM

At the root of evolution is the belief that there is no god ...

This is extremely inaccurate in it's depiction of both evolution and the beliefs of many devout people. I invite you to learn about the position of the Catholic Church on evolution for starters.

That's a fair statement but I doubt the Catholic Church's support of the co-existance of creationism and evolution is the version that is being taught in public schools which was the contradiction I was pointing out of a mandated, intolerant government stance.
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