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2012-11-06 10:12 AM
in reply to: #4485838

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Master
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Lake Norman, NC
Subject: RE: My election plea
dontracy - 2012-11-06 11:03 AM

Terrific.

Biden lied in the debate with Ryan about this issue.
Straight out lied. 

To be honest, it's my opinion that by definition, a politician is a liar.  I think they ALL lie at some point.



2012-11-06 10:23 AM
in reply to: #4485572

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Champion
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Subject: RE: My election plea
Congratulations on having united liberals and conservatives in opposition to your OP.

I agree with you in general—people should apply the golden rule in life and shouldn’t actively seek to deprive others of rights that they seek for themselves.

But if I don’t vote for what I believe, what do my beliefs matter? I support same-sex marriage. I don’t support organized religion having a voice in what my kid is taught in public school. I intend to vote based on what I believe and I wouldn’t begrudge someone who believes otherwise the right to do the same.

What I would say is that I think people should perhaps be more open-minded to beliefs that they don’t personally share, especially if election results suggest that the majority of the population feels differently than they do.

If I thought that the majority of my community or the majority of Americans felt the opposite of something I strongly believed, I like to think I’d be more flexible about that particular issue in the future. Holding rigidly and unwaveringly to a particular belief in the face of strong evidence that you are in the small minority is not the path to growth, as a person or a nation.


Edited by jmk-brooklyn 2012-11-06 10:25 AM
2012-11-06 10:39 AM
in reply to: #4485888

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: My election plea

jmk-brooklyn - Congratulations on having united liberals and conservatives in opposition to your OP. :

Bigfuzzydoug for president 2020.

2012-11-06 10:42 AM
in reply to: #4485948

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Champion
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Chicago
Subject: RE: My election plea
dontracy - 2012-11-06 10:39 AM

jmk-brooklyn - Congratulations on having united liberals and conservatives in opposition to your OP. :

Bigfuzzydoug for president 2020.



Don where ya been? I was looking forward to impressing my atheistic beliefs on you all year, and then you disappear right before the election. That's no fun!
2012-11-06 10:48 AM
in reply to: #4485954

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: My election plea

mr2tony - Don where ya been? I was looking forward to impressing my atheistic beliefs on you all year, and then you disappear right before the election. That's no fun!

I was busy praying for you.

2012-11-06 10:50 AM
in reply to: #4485572

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: My election plea

I wish everyone would vote like my wife and I do.

but let me clarify. We vote by asking ourselves a series of questions about each candidate, initiative, referendum etc that comes up.

-Will voting either way for this hurt someone in some way we can comprehend?
-Does it follow the golden rule? (IE Do unto others as you would have other do unto you.) [to give an example. I am not gay but in Washington, gay marriage is up for a vote - I would not want someone to deprive me of the right to marry my wife, so even though it does not effect me directly whether same sex couples can marry, I voted to allow it because I believe they should have the same right I do]
-How does this match our fiscal beliefs (both personally and at the government level)?

Now the answers to these will vary per person and based on what everyones beliefs are, and that is ok, but asking yourself these, or similar questions, at least allows an individual to focus on their owns beliefs, how those beliefs affect others, and, hopefully, what the facts in each vote caste are.

BFD I do get where you are coming from and appreciate the sentiment but I also think the phrasing was a little off from your intent (as I see it)

Happy end to political adds day!

 



2012-11-06 10:54 AM
in reply to: #4485969

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Champion
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Chicago
Subject: RE: My election plea
dontracy - 2012-11-06 10:48 AM

mr2tony - Don where ya been? I was looking forward to impressing my atheistic beliefs on you all year, and then you disappear right before the election. That's no fun!

I was busy praying for you.



Wow you were gone for a REALLY long time!
2012-11-06 10:55 AM
in reply to: #4485993

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: My election plea

mr2tony - Wow you were gone for a REALLY long time!

Wore out a couple rosaries.

2012-11-06 10:57 AM
in reply to: #4485995

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Champion
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Chicago
Subject: RE: My election plea
dontracy - 2012-11-06 10:55 AM

mr2tony - Wow you were gone for a REALLY long time!

Wore out a couple rosaries.



Just a couple? I'm slippin' ...
2012-11-06 11:08 AM
in reply to: #4485769

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Champion
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Philly 'burbs
Subject: RE: My election plea
Bigfuzzydoug - 2012-11-06 10:35 AM
wingsfan - 2012-11-06 10:24 AM
jford2309 - 2012-11-06 9:05 AM

Birkierunner - 2012-11-06 8:36 AM I'm not even religious but this OP rubs me the wrong way as somewhat of an attack (at least in part) on folks that may vote based on religious beliefs.  Don't confuse "privileges" with "rights" and if a law is passed that infringes on a "right" guaranteed by the Constitution it will be challenged in court.  You vote the way you want and I'll vote the way I want but please don't preach to me.

 

Agreed

x3

One could paraphrase the OP as - "Let me infringe on your right to vote your beliefs because I don't agree with you and don't want you infringing on my privileges."

 

Edited to dodge the typo police patrolling this thread.

Siiiiiigh.  No.  Paraphrase:  "Let me ask that when you vote, you consider not to restrict anyone else's rights.  

Why didn't you just state that? Why tee it up with comments about religion and morality and beliefs? Why does the motivation behind restricting other's rights even matter?

2012-11-06 11:09 AM
in reply to: #4485998

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: My election plea

mr2tony - Just a couple? I'm slippin' ...

Plus a lot of candles.

You're totally worth it.



2012-11-06 11:09 AM
in reply to: #4485764

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Master
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Boynton Beach, FL
Subject: RE: My election plea
BikerGrrrl - 2012-11-06 10:33 AM
cardenas1 - 2012-11-06 9:32 AM

I only wish more Americans had a "belief system" or moral compass to lean towards.   Unfortunately, most do not.   Regardless of what that specific belief system may be, it sure beats the "vote for the popular guy" mentality that I see being used today.  I have a lot more respec. t for people who at least have a reason for voting the way they d. o. . 

2 cents

Are you suggesting that someonwho doesn't vote based on a religious platform doesn't have a belief system?

Nope. Never said a word about religious beliefs. And I said majority based on my conversations I have had with folks in my district who are voting. Of course they very well may just not want to share, but normal response to my "why" question when voting for policy or individual is based on news broadcast or opinionArticle. When in line today to vote, test this idea and see what you get.
2012-11-06 11:12 AM
in reply to: #4485699

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Elite
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Subject: RE: My election plea
Bigfuzzydoug - 2012-11-06 8:12 AM

gr33n - 2012-11-06 10:06 AM Democracy is just so flawed...

I would say difficult and ever-changing.  If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

We do not live in a DEMOCRACY... we live in a REPUBLIC. Individual rights trumps mob rule as granted by the Constitution. You are complaining about a system we do not live in.

It's so easy to whine about those on the other side of the fence... one side votes based on their moral beliefs... the other side votes based on theirs. Your rant is nothing more than you stating your moral convictions and how you use them. What they are based on is irrelevant to the discussion.

If that vote violates my right, I get to have it overturned. Happens on a regular basis. Vote how ever you like, if it is upheld by the courts, then so be it.



Edited by powerman 2012-11-06 11:18 AM
2012-11-06 11:17 AM
in reply to: #4485572

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Pro
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Bellingham, WA
Subject: RE: My election plea

This election plea makes no sense whatsoever

2012-11-06 12:57 PM
in reply to: #4486051

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Champion
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SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: My election plea
powerman - 2012-11-06 12:12 PM
Bigfuzzydoug - 2012-11-06 8:12 AM

gr33n - 2012-11-06 10:06 AM Democracy is just so flawed...

I would say difficult and ever-changing.  If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

We do not live in a DEMOCRACY... we live in a REPUBLIC. Individual rights trumps mob rule as granted by the Constitution. You are complaining about a system we do not live in.

Actually we are a representative democracy.  Where we elect people to trample the rights of the people who elected them.

2012-11-06 2:40 PM
in reply to: #4485762

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Subject: RE: My election plea
trinnas - 2012-11-06 7:33 AM
Bigfuzzydoug - 2012-11-06 10:30 AM

scoobysdad - 2012-11-06 10:18 AM It's my belief and tradition to be able to choose how to spend the money I earn. Where does this leave me?

You know that's not what I'm talking about.  Taxes, social security and medicare are not denying you the right to do with your money as you wish.  It just means you have less money to use.  But again, you know that's not what I'm talking about.  And if changes were made to give you more disposable income by privatizing or reducing some of the above, I don't believe it would deny anyone else of their rights.  That's fiscal, retirement, insurance and tax policy - not restricting rights.

Are you asking me if I believe in what a few Democrats say that social security and medicare are civil rights that all Americans deserve no matter what and the programs should never be modified?  If so, the answer is no.  I don't believe that.

So only the money the Government allows you to keep is truly yours?

Not at all, the money you get to keep is the Governments too, they only allow you to use it to pay taxes on other stuff.



2012-11-06 2:48 PM
in reply to: #4485838

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Subject: RE: My election plea
dontracy - 2012-11-06 8:03 AM

Bigfuzzydoug - 2For the record... yes.  It's a PRIVATE institution.  If they don't want to, it's their prerogative.  I'm surprised that anyone who chooses to work for a Catholic institution would expect or demand anything otherwise.  I believe that abortion and contraceptive services should be available to those who want/need, but private institutions shouldn't be forced to offer it.

Terrific.

Biden lied in the debate with Ryan about this issue.
Straight out lied. 

The tone of your posts sounds like your are surprised or shocked that Biden lied. I'm curious as to why if that is the case?

2012-11-06 3:01 PM
in reply to: #4486597

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: My election plea

crusevegas - The tone of your posts sounds like your are surprised or shocked that Biden lied. I'm curious as to why if that is the case?

This is a family issue.

At the Al Smith dinner, Cardinal Dolan said something like, "If you want to see what a big tent looks like
just look to the Catholic Church. She has both Biden and Ryan as members."

There are something like sixty lawsuits by Catholic institutions against the federal government because of the HHS mandate issue
working their way through the courts.
Biden must have known that and simply lied about it when Ryan pointed it out.

Biden claims to be Catholic, but neither assents to the teachings of the Church
nor is he defending the Church when she's being attacked. In fact, he's part of the
administration that's been attacking her. 

I believe him when he says that his faith is important to him,
so win or lose today he needs to wake up. 

2012-11-06 5:03 PM
in reply to: #4486620

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Subject: RE: My election plea
dontracy - 2012-11-06 1:01 PM

crusevegas - The tone of your posts sounds like your are surprised or shocked that Biden lied. I'm curious as to why if that is the case?

This is a family issue.

At the Al Smith dinner, Cardinal Dolan said something like, "If you want to see what a big tent looks like
just look to the Catholic Church. She has both Biden and Ryan as members."

There are something like sixty lawsuits by Catholic institutions against the federal government because of the HHS mandate issue
working their way through the courts.
Biden must have known that and simply lied about it when Ryan pointed it out.

Biden claims to be Catholic, but neither assents to the teachings of the Church
nor is he defending the Church when she's being attacked. In fact, he's part of the
administration that's been attacking her. 

I believe him when he says that his faith is important to him,
so win or lose today he needs to wake up. 

I think I muttered something like that LMF when he responded to Ryan on that point. I wasn't surprised or shocked, with all the lies, half truths and things that Obama and the Democrats have purposely misled the American People about to try and get a second term. It sounds like you aren't as cynical as I've become.

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