Gray Guys/Gals Masters Mentor Group - OPEN (Page 3)

Newbie here! Doing a triathlon is on my bucket list. Got a training plan off this website and for a 20-week sprint. Training starts Monday. I am planning to do a Spring in September so that gives me 20+ weeks to get ready.

STORY/CURRENT TRAINING: I am 51YO. I was a college tennis player and still play competitively 1-3X/week. I "wog" (walk/jog) several times a week. I have yo-yo'd in my fitness regimine throughout the years. I tend to hot and cold with my fitness....I get on a program/idea...stick to it well...then get bored and stop. Take off a few months...then find something else. Hoping this one still stick! I love any sport that has a ball in it. Although I've played multiple sports throughout my life...I have never been good at endurnance sports (I stink at running, swimming and biking) or any sport without balls. So why I am doing this? I have no idea except it'll make me feel accomplished.

FAMILY: Married with 2 grown kids. Will be a grandma in July! We are big baseball fans.

WEIGHT LOSS: Yes please! I am 5'9" and about 20 pounds above my happy place. About ten years ago I trained for a marathon (never finished cause I got bored) but was 40 pounds less than where I am now. With the training - I should be able to conquer multiple goals of losing weight and checking something off of my bucket list.

Wish me luck! Thanks in advance for your patience with me as I will be asking lots of dumb questions along the way.

Hi Laura,

Welcome!

The good news is with three sports, it's a bit harder to get bored with the training!  20-weeks is plenty of time to be ready.  The key is consistency - steady, regular training.  Follow the plan you've got and you'll be fine.

There are no dumb questions.  Everyone on this site started from exactly where you are starting from.  Everyone on this site had many of the same questions you likely have when they all began.  Don't hesitate to ask when a question forms.

One final thing.  You may have noticed this group isn't as "busy" as some of the other groups.  We choose to be more of a "functional, educational" group rather than an extension of Facebook.  I get an email whenever a post is made to the group so if/when you post something I will know fairly quickly and will try to get on within a couple of hours to read/respond.  Otherwise I check the group every couple of days.

Again, welcome.  I look forward to watching as you begin your triathlon journey!

NAME:  Janet

STORY: I did my first triathlon in May of 2009 and loved it.  Before that I wasn’t much of an athlete – the occasional school sports, recreational softball/soccer leagues but nothing that I really enjoyed or was very good at.  Not that I’m all that good at triathlon but at least I enjoy doing it, and I feel like I’ve improved a bit over the years.  I’ve done everything from sprints to one HIM and am planning for my 2^nd HIM in Sept. – I just need to keep myself motivated and on track until then. 

FAMILY STATUS: Married for almost 29 years (anniversary is next week), 2 grown kids, down to 3 cats (we had as many as 12 at one time – long story there  ). 

CURRENT TRAINING: Currently following a plan that has me doing an average of 2 swims, 3 bikes and 2 runs per week plus some strength training and yoga – all together about 9-10 hours a week.  I try to add a 3^rd swim in when I can. 

2019 PLANNED RACES: KC Triathlon Olympic – May 12^th; St Louis Triathlon sprint – May 19^th; New Town Triathlon – July 9^th (haven’t decided on short or long course); Redman HIM – Sept 21^st. 

WEIGHT LOSS: I’ve lost about 7 pounds since the beginning of the year and am hoping to lose an additional 10 or so.  It’s been slow but steady so far. 

I wanted to expand a bit on my current training and maybe get some advice/suggestions.  My cycling has been going well.  I feel like I’ve made some real progress over the winter.  I’ll find out for sure once I can get outside to ride again, which with any luck will be next weekend, provided the weatherman is correct and we get up into the lower 70’s.

My running has been limited.  I’ve had some issues with my lower back and left knee – getting treated for it but it’s been slow going.  I am up to about 4 miles but it’s at a very slow pace.  Just trying to get my mileage up at this point and not worry about my pace.  I’ve never been fast, but this is slow even for me!

Swimming – this has always been my nemesis.  I taught myself to swim (not very well) when I started training for my first race 10 years ago.  I swim better now but still not well.  I can, at least, swim longer distances so that’s a plus.  Part of it is lack of time in the pool, I know that.  The pool where I swim though has very limited lap swimming hours (soon to be even more limited since they’re adding aqua aerobics classes in the evening and taking away the 2 lanes that were normally reserved for lap swimming).  I try to go in the mornings but usually have to cut my workout short to make it to work on time.  All this leaves me frustrated with swimming so a lot of times it just gets skipped – not ideal, I know.  I’m thinking about joining a local tri club that does group swimming a couple of times a week.  The “class” is led by a local tri coach who belongs to the club.  It’s not a master’s swim, but something like it I think.  I sent them an email to try to get more information.  I’m thinking this might be just what I need to get my swimming moving in the right direction. 

Sorry for the long post . 

Janet

Hello Janet!  And welcome back, it's been awhile.  Glad you decided to join us again this season.

Sounds like your cycling is coming along.  I'm with you, can't wait to get outside on my bike again!  We've had a couple days where it was close.  Another week or two and we should be good to go!

You've heard me say this before with respect to injuries - listen to whoever is treating you.  Whether that's a PT or a Physician, they are the experts.  It's better to take a bit longer and come back healthy than to try and come-back too soon and have a nagging injury stick with you all season.

You've also heard me say this before.  Frequency trumps everything else in the pool.  The more frequently you can get in the water - even if it's for a shorter duration - the better your swimming will become.  Training in a group or team environment is also very beneficial for most people.  Let's face it, swimming is a solitary sport - it's just you, your thoughts and that lane line going by under you.  However, when you introduce a group of like minded athletes. suddenly there's a social component that makes swimming a bit more tolerable.  It also tends to drive the competitive spirit which also helps with training.  If the leader of the group provides some technique instruction and or writes workouts, so much the better.

Again, welcome Janet.  Glad you're back.

I had a "win" at the pool this morning - besides actually getting to the pool, which is a win in itself.  It was drill day, which I don't particularly like but they only come up about every 3 weeks or so, so that's not too bad.  And today actually went well.  I'm getting much better at one-arm drill - I no longer feel like I'm trying to drown myself, and I was able to do several laps with my paddles without them coming off my hands - that's never happened before.  I talked with someone from the tri club last time I swam with them and he gave me some tips on using them.  Seemed to work.  I also spent some time concentrating on keeping my head down when I breathe.  I know I come up too much which makes my legs sink even more than they already do.  I read or saw somewhere about imagining that you're holding a ball between your chin and chest and you don't want to lose the ball when you turn your head to breathe (hope that makes sense).  So I worked on that during my cooldown.  That's going to take a little practice to get right I think.  

It's supposed to be a fairly good weekend weather-wise so a run is on tap for tomorrow morning, followed by volunteering at a 25k/50k/50m trail race, then hopefully the first outdoor ride of the season on Sunday!

Have a good weekend!
Janet

I have been following the group all year but have failed to introduce myself to the newbies.

STORY/CURRENT TRAINING: I am in the M40-45 AG making me one of the young pumps in the Gray Group but I found my first grey hair at age 37 and relate better to this group since I was a competitive runner for about 30 years and didn't switch to races longer than a 5K and to Triathlons until after I started to lose hair and my speed and to slow down.  I am very happy learning how to age gracefully. 

I red shirted on the indoor and outdoor track team for the University of Wyoming my freshman year of college. I was one of the slow guys and felt that it would be better to focus on the books and to save the running for recreation later in life so I only ran one year in college.  I grew up in Utah but moved to Oklahoma my Junior Year of high school and have called Oklahoma home ever since even though I still can't wrap my head around some of the backwards things they do here and even though I have lived in California, Wyoming, Colorado, and Texas since then as well.  I moved back to Oklahoma about 3 years ago from Texas with my second job transfer.

FAMILY: Married with 3 daughters under the age of 10. My oldest threw a big fit when she was six years old saying it was pointless to go to a 5K that I was running because she never gets to participate.  She said if she didn't get to run she wasn't going to go at all.  So at age 6 she completed her first 5K in 38 minutes.  At age 8 she was in an under 12 age group (Boys&Girls) at a 5K and got first place.  The 2nd and 3rd place finishers were both boys that were about 11 years old.  I don't know how the boys felt about standing on the podium that day.  I guess you take what you can get an any age.  My oldest is also an accomplished singer and got call backs for the part of the young Elsa in the community theater production of Frozen Junior.  I am excited about her call backs that will be all day tomorrow.  

WEIGHT LOSS: Since I started triathlon 4 years ago I have gained about 8 lbs, but my body fat is down about 4%.  So...I worked hard for the muscle I have gained and don't have much fat to lose so weight lose isn't going to be something I am going to try to do this year (I did have to size up on the wetsuit last year though).  

RACES:  After focusing on 70.3 distance races for the past four years I am going to do some shorter races this year.  I plan to do a Sprint Triathlons, followed by an Olympic Triathlons, followed by a 70.3 Triathlon.  I am calling it the triple crown.  I wanted to do races close to home this year so I can do more races (I only do 1-2 races ever year).  I am looking forward to trying the shorter races and think it will be fun to see how my USAT scored compare at different distances.  

Hey Curtis,

Welcome back!  Glad to have you with us for another season.

First outdoor ride of the season this past Sunday.  It went well overall.  I kept it short and went easy for the first half - just making sure I remembered how to ride outdoors (clipping in and out/steering/braking/etc).  Once I was comfortable I tried to pick up the speed a little bit.  Hard to do though riding into a pretty good headwind.  It's good practice though - I've heard that the bike course at Redman can be pretty windy.  And since I was doing an out and back, the return trip was much more fun .  And there are 2 small hills - I've always had to switch to easier gears to get up them, but this time I went right up without changing gears at all.  Very pleased with that!  I guess the trainer work over the winter helped.

Janet

Janet,

Glad you got outside to ride!  When we still lived in California, I admittedly didn't understand the desire to "get outside."  I rode indoors on the trainer most of the time, by choice so it just didn't seem like that big a deal.  Now that we live where there's a true winter climate that forces you onto the trainer, well, I understand now.  There's a huge difference between riding on the trainer because you choose too and riding on the trainer because you're forced too!

I've gotten both my first outdoor ride and run.  Never thought I'd be so happy to have sunlight on my shoulders!

I need some advice and/or encouragement.  I'm doing the KC tri this Sunday, signed up for the Olympic distance.  My training had been going pretty well - I was completing about 90-95% of my workouts and mostly feeling good about them - until 2 weeks ago.  Things kind of felt apart then.  I'm not sure why except for a little extra work/family stress, but my workout completion rate dropped to about 40%.  I feel like I could still complete the Olympic distance but it would be slow (slower than my normal pace) and I don't really want my husband, son, son's girlfriend to have to sit around for almost 4 hours waiting for me - yes, it would be close to 4 hours for me to complete it.  I could drop to the sprint and be finished in under 2.  That would give us time to have a nice lunch with Nick before driving back home.  My other concern is the water temp.  I swam in 64* last Saturday and I did OK, but it was cold enough that I only swam 350 yds and got out, my feet were frozen.  The lake temp for Sunday is predicted to be low 60's.  I don't know if I can do 1500m in that temp.  And I don't want to end up with a DNF because of it.   

So, opinions here - am I just making excuses and finding reasons to do the shorter distance?  I feel like I am, but on the other hand, I feel like my family should be important too.  I'll never be fast enough to win anything, so does it really matter what distance I do?  Or maybe I'm just overthinking it.  And if I ask my husband his opinion, he'll say "do what you think is best" although I know he would prefer the shorter wait time.  

Janet

Hey Janet,

I don't know what your volume has been, but if it's been sufficiently high that you could benefit from a taper/peak, a taper/peak for an Olympic is generally in the 10-14 day range so you could almost look at it like you've tapered for the race.  As to doing the Olympic or the shorter Sprint - on the one hand, you knew how long the Olympic would likely take when you signed up for it.  So not sure the length in and of itself is a good justification.  That said, I do understand the desire to "go easy" on family  and be able to spend some quality time with them so everyone has a good day.  The water temperature would what's driving my decision.  If you don't have insulated booties and you got cold only swimming 350 yard, you're right, you're going to be darn cold after 1500 meters - and it's not going to be just your feet, that's far enough and long enough it will begin to lower your core temperature which means you'd likely be cold the entire race.  That would give me a moment of pause and very likely motivate me to get a pair of insulated booties or go to the shorter distance.

Hope that helps.  Have a good race!

Thanks Scott.  I actually have purchased a pair of neoprene booties (they arrived today) and I was going to test them out at a practice swim on Saturday before we head over to KC.  However, they just posted an updated water temp - it's gone down from 61* on Monday to 57* today.  They're hoping that it gets back up to at least 60* by Sunday but I think that's doubtful given the forecast for the next couple of days - more rain and highs only in the 60's.  Right now it's wetsuit mandatory for the Olympic and highly recommended for the sprint.  I would have worn mine either way, I just think I'll be much more comfortable and less stressed if I drop down to the sprint.  My initial reason for doing the Olympic was to see how my winter training had gone and what I would need to work on most over the next few months to get ready for Redman in Sept.   There is another Olympic distance race I can do in June though that will hopefully give me the same info, and at a much more comfortable temperature.  I feel a bit like a wimp for dropping down, but I'm probably not going to be the only one and I don't want to risk the rest of my season for one race.   

Janet

Okay...I have a beginners question that I probably should have asked years ago.  What type of bike pump is recommended? 

Some of the Preston valves that I had on inner tubes about 2-3 years got had the NPT threads on the stem so that a nut could thread down to hold the stem in place on the rim.   The threads seemed to be really hard on pumps.  I think they must have scarred the rubber seals on the connector piece because it is hard to get it to seal.  I might pump with no problems up to about 60 PSI then air will start leaking through the connector and I will have to pump at lightning speed to get it up to my 100-110 PSI before the pressure drops. 

This problem seems to be compounded when I use the crack pipe (elbow adapter).  I have to pretty much start pumping at lightning speed from zero PSI and often can't get above 80 PSI because the air is leaking out faster than I can pump it in.  I always look forward to the filling station in transition on race morning because they put the connection on the stem and there are never any leaks.  They fill the tire to the correct 110 PSI the first time every time and it only takes them 10 seconds to do.  I have noticed that they don't mess around with the crack pipe elbow adaptors either.  I am not sure what type of connectors they have on their pumps but I want to get a pump that will do a better job than my last two the next time I buy a pump.   Any do's and don't for getting a bike pump and the elbow connectors for my race wheels?  

How do you prepare for a rough OWS?  I did a sprint yesterday and with 20+mph winds blowing across the lake, it made for some pretty rough water.  I managed to get through the swim (a lot of people had to get pulled) by stopping twice along the way at a kayak just to rest a bit - something I've never had to do before.  I've been practicing in OW but never in water that rough - it just doesn't happen that often around here.  It's making me a little nervous for my race in September since the venue there is usually also pretty windy.  I was hoping to try to practice a little more in rough conditions but I'm not sure how to simulate that.

And the bike ride yesterday, with those 20 mph winds - I averaged 12.4 on the way out but 19.3 on the way back ! 

Janet

The Sprint I did on Saturday had wind start about 30 minutes before the swim start, but it didn't start to rain until about 2 hours after the rain.  The storm after the race brought tornados, but race time conditions were favorable.  

I think the best way to prepare for high wind on the swim is to be comfortable in the water and to learn to breathe on either side.  The work wind I have had on a swim was two years ago.  The hind was so high that the anchors on some of the buoys marking the course blew away.  The redid the course with the ones that stayed in place which reduced the distance of about 30%.  I remember on that swim that there were a few times when I would turn to breathe right as I crest one of the waves that the wind had formed on the surface of the lake and that as the wave fell I felt like was getting air going airborne off the top of the waves.  The waves were only 1/3 to 1/2 meter high.  I found that as long as my face was in the water that it really didn't make any difference if I was on top of a wave, the bottom of a wave if the wave was washing over me etc.  It only made a difference when my face was out of the water to take a breath.  That comes with being comfortable in the water.  When you do come up for the breath you are going to want to look away from the wind if possible.  If you can breathe on either side that helps.  As far as sighting and navigation go I didn't notice being blown off course.  I was just following a long line of other swimmer and I didn't make any adjustments for wind.  I was swimming directly to the turn buoys.  

Janet,

The best way to prepare for an Open Water Swim is to swim in a lake, river, pond. or the ocean - in a perfect world you'll do that in whatever type body of water the race will be in.

I know, it's sometimes difficult at best to find/get to an open body of water.  To help athlete's prepare for open water I came up with a little workout that will have them doing some things that mimic open water as well as some sighting drills.  This isn't as good as getting in a lake, river, or the ocean but it's better than nothing.  Hope it helps.

Warm-up:
200 easy swim w/20" RI

Drill:
10 x 50 w/30" RI
Done as 25 Tarzan, 25 alligator eyes
See below for instructions

Main Set: - repeat entire set two times

4×25 swim at RPE of 9/10 (hard)
DO NOT USE WALL, tread water to start, w/20" RI TREADING WATER

4×100 swim at RPE of 6/10 (moderate pace), sighting every seven strokes, w/20" RI on wall

4×100 swim at RPE of 7/10 (moderately hard pace), sighting every five strokes, no walls meaning turn short of wall and do not touch wall; :20 rest treading water

2×100 swim at RPE of 8/10, sighting every three strokes; :20 rest on wall

Cool-down -
200 EZ

Instructions for the sighting drills referenced above -

Tarzan drill - swim with head out of water for 5 strokes, then head in water for 5 strokes. Repeat to end of pool. n Your legs are going to sink as you raise your head. Work to get them back up as soon as your head is back in the water.

Alligator eyes - raise head until just your eyes are out of water for three strokes, then normal swimming for 7 strokes. Repeat to end of pool.

Janet,

Another thing that's helpful for rough water is to become comfortable being in a hypoxic state (lack of oxygen).  Here's a workout that will help you achieve that.  Fair warning - EVERY SINGLE person that has done this workout hates the workout BUT they love that they did the workout come race day.  I suggest you do it once a week for a few weeks leading up to the race.

This workout has three goals. Number one is to improve your technique by reducing drag and improving your power in the water. Secondarily we want you to be comfortable breathing to both sides - primarily because if you can breathe to both sides you can breathe to the no wind/chop side during a race. Finally we are going to force you to swim in a hypoxic state - lacking oxygen. We are NOT trying to cause you physical harm so when you must breathe - take a breath. We want to attempt to get you comfortable with being in a hypoxic state - such as you might find yourself in if you take a gulp of water during a race.

3 x 100 EZ -> Moderate WU

Breathe left side even laps, right side odd laps.

4 x [8 x 25] w/15" RI, 30" RI between sets
Set 1 - POSTURE - focus on posture. Head down to raise hips/legs, back arched to raise hips/legs, think "tall,"
Set 2 - HAND POSITION - focus on hand position at entry. Even with shoulder line. Don't crossover centerline.
Set 3 - LENGTH - Focus on extending arm above water and entering at near full extension. Enter with fingertips first. Don't release until full extension at end of stroke.
Set 4 - CATCH/EVF - Focus on entering with locked wrist, finger tip first. Keep wrist locked with fingertips pointed towards bottom of the pool during entire catch/pull. Remember the phrase - fingers below wrist below elbow.

4 x 50 closed fist drill w/15" rest
Done as 25 drill, 25 freestyle

8 x 75 w/15" RI (no rest between 25's)
1st 25 Windsprint (see below for instruction)
2nd 25 Streamline kick
3rd 25 swim HARD

Windsprint - exhale completely before beginning the interval. IF/WHEN YOU MUST BREATHE - DO SO. WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO EXPAND YOUR CAPABILITY, NOT CAUSE YOU PHYSICAL HARM.

4 x 200 w/30" RI
1st 50 breath every 3rd stroke
2nd 50 breath every 5th stroke
3rd 50 breathe every 3rd stroke
4th 50 breathe every 5th stroke

4 x 100 w/20" RI
Descend set (each one faster than the previous one)

200 EZ CD

So...three of my siblings signed up for the St. George Marathon.  Two of them have never done marathons so I couldn't pass up the opportunity to run with them and signed up too. 

After my next Sprint Triathlon in two weeks, I will start training for my fall 70.3 race and since the marathon is two weeks after the 70.3 race I have been putting together a plan that will set me up for the Marathon too. 

I was reading through a blog post by Joe Friel on guidelines for people from a Triathlon follow in training for a Marathon.  I found it interesting in his section on cross training that he said that athletes in the 20's may run 5-6 times a week since they recover quickly but that for every 10 years of age over 30 years old that you should drop one day of running a week from your training schedule until you are down to 3-days of running a week.  He said to not run every day but to bike and swim too.

What are your thoughts and dropping one day of running for every decade over 30?  

I have done the Barry-P [1-2-3] running plan that had me running 6 days a week for Triathlons last year and before that was using the FIRST (Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training) running plan that only had 3 running days a week.  It looks like Joe Friel has a compromise that takes the Gray Hair factor into account.

I know you didn't say anything about BQ, but I have to say I'm surprised that's a Boston Qualification course.  Except for a 1.4 mile climb it's all downhill.  Do you have designs on going to Boston?  If memory serves, you have the running chops to qualify and this looks like a great course to attempt a BQ on.  That will be a nice course in October.

I find myself dis-agreeing with Joe Friel on occasion and this is one of them.  I agree that as we get older, recovery becomes increasingly important and more difficult.  That said, cut a run for each ten years past 30?  I have an athlete in her 70's so according to Friel she should only be running 1-2 times per week?  Seems to me that an athlete would be inviting injury as they'd have to run longer, meaning further, in the reduced number of runs.

I've been a huge proponent of the Barry-P method for nearly as long as it's been around.  I especially like the way Barry-P keeps the long run in line with total volume (I do acknowledge Barry-P modifies the long run for longer events, e.g marathons, etc. and includes an "ultra-long" run every 2-3 weeks.  I add the "Ultra-run" every fourth week to reduce injury risk).  Refresher on Barry-P -- 3 x 1x runs, 2 x 2x runs, and 1 x 3x run per week.  "X" is the base mileage multiple (if X=1-mile than total volume for the week would be 10 miles).  In my version of Barry-P, the 1x runs are STRICTLY done as Z1 runs - recovery runs.  I think the limiter as you get older is total volume rather than frequency.  It also becomes increasingly important as we age that we become attuned to what our bodies are telling us.  I think the more mature we become, the more willing we need to be to drop a workout if our body tells us we need the extra recovery.  I DON'T think that arbitrarily setting some reduced frequency based on age is an effective solution.  Indeed, determining max HR using the 220-age formula has been proven inaccurate.  How is # of runs minus an age reduction any more accurate?

This next thing I'll say is perhaps the most important thing for a maturing athlete to remember.  When we were in our 20's and 30's, we could just push through discomfort then come back the next day and be fine.  When we are 50+, if we push through discomfort we risk permanent injury.  Listening to your body is by far the most important skill an older athlete can acquire.  The other skill we need to develop as we get older is learning how to ignore our younger training partners.  I remember when I was in my 30's.  I use to think older athlete's had just lost the motivation and drive to go fast and I remember thinking , on more than one occasion, "They just need to suck it up and push themselves a bit harder."  Quite a lot of 30-somethings today continue to harbor those same thoughts.  We gray guys/gals are different than our  30-something friends - we have been 30, they haven't been 50.