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2009-03-08 4:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

I'm still working on this as well, but due to illness and some travel for work I ended up doing weeks 8 and 9 several times and am now on week 11 (I was adjusting my finishing date to tie in to this year's training plan).  At this point I should be finished in late April when outdoor cycling season really gets off the ground for me.

D



2009-03-09 4:37 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Master
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Jorge, thanks, also, for sharing your time and expertise. Many of us will be racing faster this year because of your program. I can't wait to get outside and see what life on the pavement is like.
2009-03-09 9:17 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Guys, sorry I was MIA but I am away on a mini vacation but I am getting back to MA today (if the snow allows me to!), I will respond and post this evening but it is so nice to see so many of you have benefited from the winter plan!
2009-03-09 10:47 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

Jorge, during last winter I followed you cycling plan. Many times I hated you because it was damn hard

But last week I did my power test and I wanted to thank you for this awesome plan. Since the last power test I got a 10% improve. 

Thanks a lot to puting that plan together and letting us gets improvement from it, I really appreciate what you did.

2009-03-09 12:22 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Master
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Delafield, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Jorge just wanted to say thanks again for this program. Can't wait to get on the road to see the expected results, which here in beautiful Wisconsin should be about June.   As long as I'm on the trainer, I plan on substituting one of my HIM plan bike sessions, with one of your interval sessions.
2009-03-09 9:51 PM
in reply to: #1994337

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Master
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
GoFaster - 2009-03-03 1:45 PM I know we're not all on the same week - but I'm just wondering how many of us there are left from everyone who originally showed interest in Jorge's plan.
I and my spin class are still at it.  We are in week 15 this week. We are all noticing how stronger we feel and several of my tri people are anxious to get out on the roads and see how it goes.  The roads are very sand covered right now, hopefully they will be cleaned up soon! I of course am very anxious to get some feedback from my class as well.  Once I do I will post something here.  This might become my regular October - March spin class schedule. I only teach twice per week but I think doing Q1 & Q2 only are still pretty effective.


2009-03-09 9:56 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Master
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Thanks Jorge.  I hope to meet you at an area event sometime this season and thank you in person!
2009-03-10 10:42 AM
in reply to: #1995173

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Puppetmaster - 2009-03-03 6:33 PM

A question for Jorge

How does tire pressure or lack of it affect the watts outputted?  I checked mine tonight and was down from 100 to 45 psi.  It's been a few weeks since I checked it last. 

Joe

lower PSI can affect your watt out put significantly, IOW it makes producing power a bit harder do to the low PSI. I always inflate my tires at the same PSI (accoring to the tire specs) every session
2009-03-10 11:13 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Master
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
its is great to start seeing every1 post your results.

Hey Coach then this is all done, is there a way you can combine all the 16 weeks into 1 word/or other format so that we can download it and view it all at once, for either of the HR or power.
Because right now I have 16 word documents with each week saved on one.

thanks again
chris
2009-03-10 11:30 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

Gang,
1st of all I am very happy to read through here or via PMs about the great improvements most of you achieved by following the plan and most important training consistently through the winter. As you know the plan was just a general guideline to help you get you focus through the winter and make you train efficiently by targeting specific adaptations.

My personal believe and experience has taught me that AGers biggest two limiters are 1) lack of time for training and 2) lack of consistency to do the training. For that reason I prefer to follow a training approach in which we can address these two limiters that provides the best results for most AGers and that was the main goal of this plan.

You often read or hear about doing “base” training, limiting training at low intensities through the winter and bla bla bla; and while I don’t want to get into a debate (we have had many of those at tri talk) about what works best for many athletes I think this plan is a great example of my approach. Although let me be clear, I do believe doing training at lower intensities has a place and time for some athletes (like untrained individuals) but the biggest caveat many people don’t consider is that for that type of training to work is that athletes need to do a lot of it to really produce the necessary adaptations to benefit significantly.

On the other hand and as I mentioned above since most AGers lack time and consistency to train; if we set up a program in which the athlete builds up gradually but at the same time makes every session count, every session has a focus (adaptation), the training is consistent and follow a progression, then it is almost guaranteed the athlete will experience significant gains. Most important, by doing this training early in the off season (winter) the athlete will have a head start in terms of fitness and all achieved on relatively low training hours.

Considering most of you guys will race from Olys to IMs and races will take place anywhere from May to November it is very common for those athletes logging 12-14 hrs x week so early in the year to struggle with mental motivation and burning out by the summer; OTOHour cycling plan avg hrs x week was 3 hrs + our swim and bike session we probably averaged around 6-10 hrs x week. Based on the data some of you have shared we can conclude that with the 14 week plan doing 3 session (around 3 hrs x week) BTers experienced a minimum 5% increase in power for those already relatively trained and as much as 20% for less trained BTers. The average seems to be around 10% increase in power which is a very significant improvement!

Plus remember that you still will continue to train for at least another couple of months before your races hence don’t be surprised if your power continues to increase! Oh, before I forget; for those who rode the trainer exclusively and that haven’t ride outside yet – please expect to feel a bit off or rides feel a bit tough the first few times you ride outside due to the variability in terrain and because you now have the power but you will need to work on the endurance by riding longer. Don’t be afraid to ride a bit harder outside of what you are used to; doing some portions at z3 on rides 3 hrs or longer and some z4 on rides shorter than 2 hrs should be part of some of your long rides.

I am very proud of all of you and I am very happy I was able to help you, that’s a great reward and something I’ll seek to do every winter to help new and old BTers alike. I also hope you guys learned lots and realized you can incorporate some of these sessions to your plans year around, you learned why doing training at different intensities helps, and that consistency is the single best thing you can do to improve in this sport. Training shouldn’t be difficult, training concepts shouldn’t be complicated; we just need to do be consistent, have achievable goals and do the work. There are no magic plans, no magic approaches and no magic pills; if some coach wants you to believe that run far away!

For those still following the plan just go to my log under the archives to find the sessions and info. Good Luck!

2009-03-11 10:13 AM
in reply to: #2008399

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Lethbridge, Alberta
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
I just did the last 5 minute test this morning and, where my 20 minute test increased 12w, this test was up 13 watts over the last test early in Feb. My calculated CP value also went up by 12w to 292. That's an increase of 19 watts since the first test in December, or almost 7%. My weight has gone down by 6lbs over the same time period so my W/kg has gone from 3.1 to between 3.3 and 3.4.

Once again Jorge, thank you, very much!

Edited by Micawber 2009-03-11 10:34 AM


2009-03-11 11:07 AM
in reply to: #2010736

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Micawber - 2009-03-11 10:13 AM I just did the last 5 minute test this morning and, where my 20 minute test increased 12w, this test was up 13 watts over the last test early in Feb. My calculated CP value also went up by 12w to 292. That's an increase of 19 watts since the first test in December, or almost 7%. My weight has gone down by 6lbs over the same time period so my W/kg has gone from 3.1 to between 3.3 and 3.4. Once again Jorge, thank you, very much!
That's almost 9% gain in net power output; that is you now generate almost 9% more watts per kilo of body weight than 16 weeks ago
2009-03-11 11:09 AM
in reply to: #2008399

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Lethbridge, Alberta
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Quick question Jorge ... The spreadsheet you provided to calculate the results of these tests lists a value for absolute CP and a different value for CP over a 60 minute interval. If I did it right, the formula you gave us in your blog works out to the absolute CP value and that's what I've been basing my workouts on. The difference is pretty small and wouldn't change the workouts much, if at all. I was just wondering if I've been calling the wrong term CP60?
2009-03-11 11:36 AM
in reply to: #2010913

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Micawber - 2009-03-11 11:09 AM Quick question Jorge ... The spreadsheet you provided to calculate the results of these tests lists a value for absolute CP and a different value for CP over a 60 minute interval. If I did it right, the formula you gave us in your blog works out to the absolute CP value and that's what I've been basing my workouts on. The difference is pretty small and wouldn't change the workouts much, if at all. I was just wondering if I've been calling the wrong term CP60?
The difference is that the formula on my blog as you said is absolute CP60 while the spreadsheet also considers your weight hence it adjust the CP60 slightly. I hope that helps
2009-03-13 5:30 PM
in reply to: #2008399

Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

Jorge

Make sure you say when you are in Mi at ILRA for a workout.  I can a least come down and bring a some after work out 12oz carbs, a lttle thank you for the winter program.

Joe

2009-03-16 9:04 AM
in reply to: #2016721

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Puppetmaster - 2009-03-13 5:30 PM

Jorge

Make sure you say when you are in Mi at ILRA for a workout.  I can a least come down and bring a some after work out 12oz carbs, a lttle thank you for the winter program.

Joe

Sounds like a plan!



2009-03-16 10:10 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

Has anyone done their 1st outdoors ride of the season after the winter program? what was the experience? I am still on the plan as I felt behind and just started doing FTP session a few ago, still I went out this weekend for the 1st time and it was fun. Of course I knew the 1st ride was going to be tough and my endurance will be lacking as I haven't work on it yet but I figured by staying within my zone 2 watts and to limit my ride to 2 hrs I would be able to enjoy the ride .

Well famous last words; riding with fast friends who rode through the winter is not the best way to keep the effort even and steady. My ego got in between my plan and common sense and rode like usual pushing on climbs, taking pulls at the paceline, etc. The 2 hr ride turned into a 3hr one and my steady zone 2 turned inot a tempo 53 mile ride. Needless to say I felt strong for 35 miles before I exploded like a bomb and just survived for the rest of the ride. Still I am happy to say that with 3x rides x week and focusing mainly on VO2 max, Threshold and Tempo power like we did (or have done) through the program I managed to avg 80% of my FTP for 3 hrs even when it was much more of what my current fitness can handle and made for a painful last 18 miles of the ride.

I know it will take me a 4+ weeks at least to get comfortable riding outside again, get my endurance back and feel like I can put the same (and more) power on the road like on the trainer but that's expected. Anyway, what was your experience?

2009-03-16 4:07 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

I cracked - somewhere around km 45-50 the legs gave out, of what was a 73km ride.  I started out with the wind at my back and specifically made sure I didn't try to go too hard on the way out so I would have something to fight the wind on the way back.

But I was a bit aggressive in choosing my route.  Total climbing elevation for the ride was around 2,000 feet and the legs suffered quite a bit on the higher % slopes.  By the time I reached the turnaround point, I knew I was cooked - the HR was fine, but every time I hit an incline the lactic acid just poured into my quads.  A good part of the trip on the way home was downhill so that helped (got the hils out of the way at the beginning), and for a while I was pushing a decent gear and had a good cadence, but then I just hit a wall. 

I sat up and took it pretty easy for the last 15km cause the legs were fried.  I wish I'd had a PM to know exactly what was going on during the ride, cause the HR really didn't tell me much.  It spiked really badly on the hills, even though trying not to push up them, and took a bit to come back down even though I felt good (this was at the start of the ride).

Anyway - it was fun.  The legs gave out, they were sore every time I hit a hill, but I loved being outdoors.  This was a completely solo ride, and the one thing I did notice is that I spent very little time aero - I rode on the hoods 95% of the ride.  I need to hook up the used iBike I bought off eBay so I can start seeing some power numbers on the road.

2009-03-24 5:17 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Master
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
I went out for a ride in zone 2, and at 15 BPM lower, averaged the same speed on the same ride as last year. The program helped me adjust my zones a bit lower but taught me how to push harder at the same time, when it counts. I definitely felt stronger on hills than I did last year at the beginning of the season.

Great Program!
2009-03-24 9:39 AM
in reply to: #2036116

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

monkeyboy64 - 2009-03-24 5:17 AM I went out for a ride in zone 2, and at 15 BPM lower, averaged the same speed on the same ride as last year. The program helped me adjust my zones a bit lower but taught me how to push harder at the same time, when it counts. I definitely felt stronger on hills than I did last year at the beginning of the season. Great Program!
Great to hear that!

Anyone else?

2009-03-26 9:08 PM
in reply to: #2036517

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Lethbridge, Alberta
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
JorgeM - 2009-03-24 8:39 AM

...

Anyone else?


I haven't been outside yet but I did arrange for a VO2max cycling test last week. I've been out of town for business since then and when I got back today the results were waiting. I copied some of it to my log if you're interested. The max is lower than the running test I did last year but still pretty unrealistic so don't focus on that. At the end of the 16 minute test, the load was almost exactly the same as my last 5 minute test average, but it didn't seem as hard because I didn't have to hold that peak intensity for as long. They stopped the test before I was ready to quit, but it was getting pretty close so I don't think that would change the results much.

Anyway, the professor's training recommendations going on from here matched up pretty closely with your advice Jorge.


2009-03-27 9:14 AM
in reply to: #2042941

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

Micawber - 2009-03-26 9:08 PM  I haven't been outside yet but I did arrange for a VO2max cycling test last week. I've been out of town for business since then and when I got back today the results were waiting. I copied some of it to my log if you're interested. The max is lower than the running test I did last year but still pretty unrealistic so don't focus on that. At the end of the 16 minute test, the load was almost exactly the same as my last 5 minute test average, but it didn't seem as hard because I didn't have to hold that peak intensity for as long. They stopped the test before I was ready to quit, but it was getting pretty close so I don't think that would change the results much. Anyway, the professor's training recommendations going on from here matched up pretty closely with your advice Jorge.

Good stuff! I left you some Qs on your log.

Does still following the plan; how are you gusy doing? still going strong? anyone?

2009-03-27 10:54 AM
in reply to: #2043610

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Uh.... yeah. Foot surgery and the lead up to that sort of took me out of whatever my brain hadn't... Laaaaazy.
2009-03-27 2:05 PM
in reply to: #2043610

Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
JorgeM - 2009-03-27 9:14 AM

Micawber - 2009-03-26 9:08 PM  I haven't been outside yet but I did arrange for a VO2max cycling test last week. I've been out of town for business since then and when I got back today the results were waiting. I copied some of it to my log if you're interested. The max is lower than the running test I did last year but still pretty unrealistic so don't focus on that. At the end of the 16 minute test, the load was almost exactly the same as my last 5 minute test average, but it didn't seem as hard because I didn't have to hold that peak intensity for as long. They stopped the test before I was ready to quit, but it was getting pretty close so I don't think that would change the results much. Anyway, the professor's training recommendations going on from here matched up pretty closely with your advice Jorge.

Good stuff! I left you some Qs on your log.

Does still following the plan; how are you gusy doing? still going strong? anyone?

 

I am still at it, tommorrow is week 11 Q3 the 5 minute test.  My 20 minute test on Tuesday was lower then my one in the fall.  I did push a larger gear and seemed more even on my cadance.  I was also sore from climbing alot at work that day.  In the fall it seemed I was push hard and suck air, push fast and suck air.  This just felt better, smoother, more like I was riding the bike and it was not riding me, you know what I mean.

Last night on the wk11 Q2 40 minute ride, I was feeling good and the music was jamming so it stretched into an hour.  I hit a high for me, 355 watts, only held it for about 90 seconds, but it was cool.

Once they clean the roads around me I am going to do the 8 mile ride.  I did this the first time I got my bike last April and my time was 43 minutes.  I am thinking this ride again should be a good judge of improvement.

Joe

2009-04-02 12:46 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

I'm still at it - on week 13 at this point.  My re-testing in week 11 showed a 3% increase so far - but I have not been as consistent as I should have been.  Life keeps getting in the way and I am lucky to get two sessions in a week.   Also, frequent work travel keeps knocking me off schedule.  I'll keep at the program until I complete the last testing and I'm hoping that things will slow down and I'll be able to get more riding in.

I am taking tomorrow off and hope to get my bike on the road for the first time this year.  It is forecast for rain though so it may not happen (biking in cold rain - yeuch).  If it's raining I'll run instead.

D

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