SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 34)

Welcome to the club, Ben. It really just comes down to the "simple" issue of ankle flexibility. I have the same problem: the masters lane I can swim with is WAY to fast to kick with. I have super stiff runners ankles while they all have super-flexible swimmers ankles. While not lifelong swimmer my wife has hyper-flexible ankles as the result of injuries she sustained as a teenager in which she tore several of her ligament and never got them repaired. While I can out-swim her all day, she destroys me on kick sets. And yesterday in fact we had a couple of open water intervals in which we swam freestyle with fins. Wide open I could not catch her, and I am pretty sure she may have even been pulling away. It is remarkable the amount of propulsion you can generate if your ankles are flexible enough not just to point, but to actually whip on your kick. You are a lot younger than me, so there are probably a lot more things you can do to increase your ankle flexibility, but you do want to somewhat careful about it from what I understand; Swimmers have there own issues when it comes to running: lack of energy return and roll-overs for starters. What my coach tells me is that I don't want swimmers ankles, nor do I want runners ankles - instead I want triathlete ankles.

Here are a few things I do: 

1. 1) You are young enough that you might benefit from static ankle stretches via practicing certain yoga poses - I have had some limited success with that.
2. 2) I have had better luck with dynamic stretching, predominantly by using larger fins on some of my kick sets. Zoomers aren't big enough - you really need full size fins to get the dynamic flex. I will do a couple of sets with big fins and then take them off - helps a lot.
3. 3) When doing kick sets with the fishes at masters, I don't use a board (I actually never use one, but that is another topic) and instead do kicking balance drills - for us triathletes balance is really the main purpose of our kick, not propulsion like a sprint swimmer. Learning to swim with less of kick and just elevating/streamlining your feet is probably more important for the kind of swimming we do on race day. That said kicking threshold sets probably do have other performance gains outsoud of just swimming.
4. 4) Instead of pure kick sets I sometimes incorporate a switch drill in which you basically sneak a hand forward underwater (palm facing the body and snugged in really close) with a good reach and roll/breath. It is a great procipriation drill and you get to sneak a pull into the kick set without out-right swimming.

Oh, and FWIW Kim - pulling on the lane rope for backstroke is a legit drill: it will help with timing, proper hand entry and roll, as well as increase your turnover. The only problem with doing it during circle swim/masters is you never get to switch hands....

edited t0 fix number formatting somewhat - WTH is wrong with ordered lists????

Always worn bibs as well. right now I wear Desoto "400 Mile" bibs on the road bike, and both Riviera and Forzas on the tri-bike. I am a bit old school and sit on the nose of my saddle on the tri-bike just out of habit, so don't really like a lot of padding. I like the Desoto's as tyhey are built exactly like their tri suits, but you dont have to actually wear a tri-suit for training. The other folks have covered the pros and cons well. For racing I either wear a one piece or two piece suit depending on the distance; again I like the desoto shorts as they come in a low-cut version so dont cause any binding at the waist when in aero.

My female friends seem to either love or hate bibs; and there don't seem to be as many options for women. Some just wear men's while others either swear by the ones with two straps designed to go around your boobs or the the single strap that goes between.

And Ben is spot-on - if you wear bibs it is about 1000 times better if you pair them with a full-zip jersey - I was a bit surprised that it took desoto so long to figure that bit out.

Funny text message conversation between two of my friends...both of which just bought Giant Trinity tri bikes.

Friend 1 - How come you changed out your handlebars?  Should I change mine too?

Friend 2 - IMHO, it's more comfortable, lighter, and more aero, but it's really up to you.

Friend 1 - Where can I order IMHO bars?

Regarding swimming and kick sets and pulling and whatnot...

I can kick with the fast lane, swim at the top of my lane, pull at the speed of one or two lanes down.  WTF is up with that?

I've really been working on my pulling recently, as I think that's what'll help me be faster in OWS wetsuit-legal swims.  I just don't understand how I can possibly be a slower puller than my swimming pace!  I often joke that my kick sets and pull sets are done at the same speed!

My kick is quite a bit stronger then my pull as well.  I mean, I am faster with my pull, but my kick sets are pretty darn strong

The stretches might help a little if I did them more consistently, but I also tend to do much better if I can achieve that range of motion by dynamic activity. At least that's how it's been for everything else. I do some of the other things, like the occasional pull. I have used fins. They seemed to help with the stretching at first, but then not as much. They're terrible for learning the motion though, at least for me.

Maybe if I rephrase the question some, as it's really more how do get through the masters sets? What should work well towards both being productive in kick development and without messing up the set as a lot of times I can't get through the big sets or make the send-off times. Two things I can see are to pull occasionally while kicking or to kick like blazes for part of it, and then swim to catch up. I'll be doing more on my own where these other suggestions will come into play better, but here is more how to fit into masters sets.

I think I can get there, but it'll take some time. Even though we don't need a ton of propulsion from the kick, we do want to be somewhat effective at it, so what kicking we do is rather helpful. So that means some level of technique and conditioning. Several of the others beating me are also triathletes, adult onset swimmers. The one in my lane was by more than the flag distance in the 75's.

Facing the right way? Idunno ...

This might make you kick faster....   For the record, this is about 2 miles south of where we swam yesterday morning...

http://www.petethomasoutdoors.com/2013/07/great-white-shark-spotted-off-palos-verdes-just-after-it-bites-sea-lion-in-half.html

Having just finished an OWS in an Oly yesterday right in the heart of GWS land (Nantucket), I'm glad I didn't see this until tonight!  There's a reason my kids call the wetsuit my "seal costume"...  

As for kicking, I'm not (yet) in a masters group or such, but I have been working on my "zero beat kick" - as someone here called it - during races.  While I kick in my regular pool swim sets (no wetsuit), I don't when practicing OWSs in the wetsuit.  I think it makes my legs considerably more fresh when I get out of the water than the rest of the field (some of whom kick like they're avoiding said sharks).

In my Oly yesterday, the only time I kicked (at all) was when I wanted to drop an AG dude who had been drafting on me.  Otherwise, nice still legs...  I did kick during my sprint last week and saw about a 5 second/100 difference in pace (if you can really tell from official times, that is).  For a sprint, probably worth it (REDLINE REDLINE REDLINE!!!), but once I get beyond that distance, I'm more concerned about conserving my legs for the bike and run.

Caveat emptor, as this is my first full season racing, so I'm sure others see it differently.  Would be interested to hear...

Matt

I got nothing there either.  Give me a pull buoy and I will keep up with the best of the best on the kids swim team.

Nice work!

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Don't bother posting your 20' test unless it's over 320.  Or at least until we kick Ben and Chris out of the group. 

Warm and really muggy run this morning.  Despite having an easy day yesterday, I feel like I've got no pop.  Maybe that group ride on Sunday took more out of me than I thought.  It becomes hard to judge how hard you're really pushing yourself when it's so much fun.

At that level, surely you mean 20' repeats, right?

Personally, I won't even get on the bike anymore if the workout doesn't call for at least 350 watts for 10' intervals.  What's the point?????  /sarcasm.......

lol, now that is funny

Hope you guys don't mind me posting this here....  I made a decision during my 17 mile run Sunday that I would like to race Canada for something other than a finishers medal.  You know the old, you better know what you are racing for at mile 15 of the run??  The run was hard, but I got these overwhelming feelings of gratitude that I was physically able to be out there doing that, and after a 2 mile ocean swim.

some or most may know I had a round of blood clots in the lungs in 2009, then again in 2010.  I am a lifer on blood thinners.  At the time I was devastated and thought my active life was over.  Turns out, it's not.  I do most everything that I used to (with some exceptions).  I want to raise money for awareness of symptoms and prevention (it's one of the most commonly misdiagnosed diseases), is very prevalant in endurance sports, and has an 80% mortality rate if untreated.  Some of you may have seen that Dennis Farina just passed from them yesterday.   

I also though want to set an example for others that jsut because you are on thinners (and have, seriously, read advice like "don't walk outside barefoot"), that you can continue to live a full life.

So I will be wearing a Stop the Clot tri top (think King of the Mountains) at Whistler, and have set up a fundraising page.  http://www.firstgiving.com/fundraiser/chrismenjou/ironmancanada  Seriously, if you feel the inclination, please feel free to donate.  If not, that is also 100% fine.  No pressure from me.  This is just more informative for you guys than a plea for $. 

Very happy to pitch in, Chris - done.

I only get on the bike when there are other cyclists on the road so I can crush their dreams.  Otherwise...what's the point? 

Very informative Chris.  Not something I was really aware of.

Strava?