Work your Weakness aka "Hey, Mike, STFU!" Challenge (Page 34)

Perfect :) 

it's so nice that you have a record of your training over such a long period.  Lots of strength minutes this past year!  i have to think if you spend some regular time swimming (provided you can prevent the neck thing from happening) you will really see some time drops there. 

Alright, I guess I have to make two, two week plans for our STFU-ing.

My first two weeks will build off of eachother.

This week I am aiming for 50-55 miles and  a race on Saturday. This course is supposed to be fast as fach for XC. Also, competitive as fach as it's near the Nike campus. Kara Goucher, Alan Webb's wife Julia (who beat Kara I might add) and Alan himself race in this series. I'll try not to get star-struck as I try and hang on for my dear life. 

The following week will be my peak week, perhaps falling somewhere between 75 and 80 (all dependent upon how I feel)

It is SO awesome. 

Ben is the poster child for hard work and consistency.  IIRC, Ben, you just really started swimming with master's last winter, right? And what were you swimming per hundred then--I want to say you were mid 1:20s or something?  You have really gotten fast.  Impressive workouts you've been putting up man.

Yeah, very good Ben.

Is the shoulder still stiff? Is it something of concern or just generally stiff from the tough workouts? Shoulders in swimming seem quite important

It was both of them from last Sunday. A couple of us really pushed ourselves there. That's also a 90 min session instead of 1 hr like the others. It was just lat soreness/stiffness, not a joint issue to be concerned with. Things seemed to clear up just in time for this week. Pushed well and feel it today, but don't think it's quite as much as last time. I thought it was worth the push at the time and what I did yesterday seems to confirm that more so. Running can bring on the stiffness/soreness at times, but it's usually fairly easy to work out enough range of motion to do ok. Swimming is harder to do with that because the extension into the catch parts are right about the limit for my range of motion when I'm feeling good. I'm actually still working on improving this.

Elesa, I honestly don't know for sure what I was swimming in training before. No pace clock and I can't stand swimming with a watch. I don't know that it was even at that speed, or how much I was even breaking 1:30. Right now is exactly a year from when I started.

What are you training for, BTW. A specific race or distance?

That might be a silly question but I honestly don't know.

Kim, what have you used in the past on TR?

Mike, you should start with an FTP test,as all your workouts will then be based on that number.  I think the "base" plans are good place to get started and see how you like things.  You can always switch in another ride or create one of your own, if you have something specific you'd like to work.  I just used the "custom" ride feature last week for the first time, and it's pretty cool.  It kind of serves as a learning tool too, because you can see what kind of TSS and IF the rides you create generate and it drives it home a bit when you do the ride and "feel" it :)

Gretchen, do you have a bike path somewhere within driving distance where you could get some outside time on the bike (before it snows) to build some confidence with the shifting? 

There are some good youtube videos that discuss shifting and the big ring v the small ring stuff Ben is mentioning.  I'll see if I can find a few worth posting here. It might help if you can see and then feel what the different gears are doing.  After a while it becomes intuitive, kind of like driving a stick, but it can be tricky to get the hang of at first, especially with your shifters on the down tube.  BTW, my commuter (a late 80s steel Bianchi) has its shifters on the down tube.  I tell myself it helps with coordination and bike handling skills;)

Have you played with cadence at all?  one of the things that helped me learn when to shift was working with a cadence meter.  I knew I wanted to stay around 90rpm and would shift accordingly.  A few rides on some rolling hills really helps reinforce the gears and timing when to shift.

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by kcarroll

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by kcarroll

I'm still working on improving diet, with modest success. In the spirit of finding a win....sometime in the next two weeks I'm going to get my arse back on the bike, do the dreaded 20 minute FTP test and start TR Intermediate Base. AND maintain my 20 mpw run. 

I'm sure I'll leave it to the last minute, but if I put it out there...it usually gets done. Hope everyone has a good weekend. 

Nice! Are you going to get a few rides in before the test?

That's the plan. What would you recommend? # rides, intensity etc that I get done prior to starting the program/testing. While I've been running consistently 6 days/week the last couple months I've lost my bike fitness gains from the summer. No riding at all the last few months. Last winter I spent too much time in Z2 on the trainer. I want to use TR to put structure/intensity into my trainer rides. Ive used TR and am insanely motivated to chase my output targets. 

I'm in the same boat...all I've done are some easy trainer rides mostly as recovery or as a warm up for running.  In fact,I had my lowest cycling month in almost two years in October.  I'm wondering where I should start in TR, and what to do for the 3 months before my 12-week TT plan starts in March.

I've been waiting for Ben to field this, but I know he doesn't use TR, but I'm bumping for discussion of the bold  Haha--no pressure Ben!

Kim, what have you used in the past on TR?

I'm not Ben, but I'll give my input.  After my test (which also was after lots of running with little biking), I was suggested lots of VO2 Work on the bike.  Currently I'm doing a VO2 type workout on Tuesdays and a more threshold type workout on Thursday.  I'll be doing another FTP test in December to see what the difference is.

The reason for the recommendation was based off the fact that my 1min to 5min power being too similar to my 20 minute power (in terms of where they should be along the power curve).  It's apparently a common phenomenon among triathletes.

A pretty knowledgeable coach (This is Francois again, Switch) gave this as an example:
At this time of the year, for an athlete who is time constrained and who rides on the trainer only, I would do 2 workouts, one with a VO2max focus, the other with a tempo / LT focus so say:

1. 60min ride as 10min warm up, 5x(10secs at 140% of FTP - R:50secs), 5min easy. Then 5x3min at 120-125 of FTP R:3min, and finish easy.

2. 60min with 5x6min at 92-95% of FTP R:1min

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by kcarroll

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by kcarroll

I'm still working on improving diet, with modest success. In the spirit of finding a win....sometime in the next two weeks I'm going to get my arse back on the bike, do the dreaded 20 minute FTP test and start TR Intermediate Base. AND maintain my 20 mpw run. 

I'm sure I'll leave it to the last minute, but if I put it out there...it usually gets done. Hope everyone has a good weekend. 

Nice! Are you going to get a few rides in before the test?

That's the plan. What would you recommend? # rides, intensity etc that I get done prior to starting the program/testing. While I've been running consistently 6 days/week the last couple months I've lost my bike fitness gains from the summer. No riding at all the last few months. Last winter I spent too much time in Z2 on the trainer. I want to use TR to put structure/intensity into my trainer rides. Ive used TR and am insanely motivated to chase my output targets. 

I'm in the same boat...all I've done are some easy trainer rides mostly as recovery or as a warm up for running.  In fact,I had my lowest cycling month in almost two years in October.  I'm wondering where I should start in TR, and what to do for the 3 months before my 12-week TT plan starts in March.

I've been waiting for Ben to field this, but I know he doesn't use TR, but I'm bumping for discussion of the bold  Haha--no pressure Ben!

Kim, what have you used in the past on TR?

Mike, you should start with an FTP test,as all your workouts will then be based on that number.  I think the "base" plans are good place to get started and see how you like things.  You can always switch in another ride or create one of your own, if you have something specific you'd like to work.  I just used the "custom" ride feature last week for the first time, and it's pretty cool.  It kind of serves as a learning tool too, because you can see what kind of TSS and IF the rides you create generate and it drives it home a bit when you do the ride and "feel" it

 

Sorry...I don't think I was clear.    I'm familiar with TR...I actually started using it when it was in Beta back in fall 2011.  I really like some of the stock workouts (especially Jorge's stuff and the Sufferfest ones), and I fiddled around with the workout creator, too.  According to the TR folks, I've spent 4.3 days on the trainer which sounds just awful. 

My issue is I don't know what to do with my bike training over the next three months.  My 'A' race is the end of May and I'm going to use their 40k TT plan starting the beginning of March.  From a periodization perspective, I think I should be in just Base/Prep until then, but I guess that doesn't mean I can't thrash a little on the bike, right?  I wasn't planning on testing until I get a couple of weeks back in the saddle...I'm just using my old FTP and keeping the effort aerobic for now.  Maybe I should just use on of those base plans so I have something to follow other than "I think I'll do this today".

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by kcarroll

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by kcarroll

I'm still working on improving diet, with modest success. In the spirit of finding a win....sometime in the next two weeks I'm going to get my arse back on the bike, do the dreaded 20 minute FTP test and start TR Intermediate Base. AND maintain my 20 mpw run. 

I'm sure I'll leave it to the last minute, but if I put it out there...it usually gets done. Hope everyone has a good weekend. 

Nice! Are you going to get a few rides in before the test?

That's the plan. What would you recommend? # rides, intensity etc that I get done prior to starting the program/testing. While I've been running consistently 6 days/week the last couple months I've lost my bike fitness gains from the summer. No riding at all the last few months. Last winter I spent too much time in Z2 on the trainer. I want to use TR to put structure/intensity into my trainer rides. Ive used TR and am insanely motivated to chase my output targets. 

I'm in the same boat...all I've done are some easy trainer rides mostly as recovery or as a warm up for running.  In fact,I had my lowest cycling month in almost two years in October.  I'm wondering where I should start in TR, and what to do for the 3 months before my 12-week TT plan starts in March.

I've been waiting for Ben to field this, but I know he doesn't use TR, but I'm bumping for discussion of the bold  Haha--no pressure Ben!

Kim, what have you used in the past on TR?

I'm not Ben, but I'll give my input.  After my test (which also was after lots of running with little biking), I was suggested lots of VO2 Work on the bike.  Currently I'm doing a VO2 type workout on Tuesdays and a more threshold type workout on Thursday.  I'll be doing another FTP test in December to see what the difference is.

The reason for the recommendation was based off the fact that my 1min to 5min power being too similar to my 20 minute power (in terms of where they should be along the power curve).  It's apparently a common phenomenon among triathletes.

A pretty knowledgeable coach (This is Francois again, Switch) gave this as an example:
At this time of the year, for an athlete who is time constrained and who rides on the trainer only, I would do 2 workouts, one with a VO2max focus, the other with a tempo / LT focus so say:

1. 60min ride as 10min warm up, 5x(10secs at 140% of FTP - R:50secs), 5min easy. Then 5x3min at 120-125 of FTP R:3min, and finish easy.

2. 60min with 5x6min at 92-95% of FTP R:1min

So did Francois think you would improve cycling fitness riding just 2x/week?  That's gonna make my day if that's the word

I'm sure he's assuming a long ride on the weekend too, but during the week that's all he prescribes for someone who's also swimming and running.  Right now I'm doing two rides kind of like what he listed with a 2-3 hour ride on the weekend.  I'll let you know how it works in December.

Well, I wish I knew a little more about what you all are talking about with these trainer workouts.  I guess my ignorance is a bit of a weakness.  I do almost all my riding on the trainer but I have always kept it very simple.  I try to do three sessions a week of between 45 and 75 minutes.  Once in a while I'll go a little longer but if I'm on the trainer I'm pushing it very hard.  I do 15 minute intervals with about a 30 second rest in between to hydrate.  I made some huge improvements this last year and keep progressing by pushing bigger and bigger gears as time goes on.  I assume there is a better way to do it and that should be a focus since my running has taken a bit of a back seat for a while.  Recommended reading materials?

Again, I wait on posts like these because I want to see what the more experienced riders will say, but that actually sounds like it probably serves you pretty well, Steve.   

We just finished the Skiba book, which may have been a little helpful, but I don't know of something else to recommend.  I think the TrainerRoad website is AWESOME though, and I bet you'd dig it.  It's very motivating to have structured sets and to be working toward hitting numbers and improving numbers (FTP).

Since you were the Daniels thread, swap power for pace, FTP for T-pace, and VO2 for I-pace work. Once that clicks much of the cycling discussions should make a lot of sense. There is some more than that being discussed, but I find it easier to relate with things I know first. And a lot of the important things are very similar.

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by kcarroll

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by kcarroll

I'm still working on improving diet, with modest success. In the spirit of finding a win....sometime in the next two weeks I'm going to get my arse back on the bike, do the dreaded 20 minute FTP test and start TR Intermediate Base. AND maintain my 20 mpw run. 

I'm sure I'll leave it to the last minute, but if I put it out there...it usually gets done. Hope everyone has a good weekend. 

Nice! Are you going to get a few rides in before the test?

That's the plan. What would you recommend? # rides, intensity etc that I get done prior to starting the program/testing. While I've been running consistently 6 days/week the last couple months I've lost my bike fitness gains from the summer. No riding at all the last few months. Last winter I spent too much time in Z2 on the trainer. I want to use TR to put structure/intensity into my trainer rides. Ive used TR and am insanely motivated to chase my output targets. 

I'm in the same boat...all I've done are some easy trainer rides mostly as recovery or as a warm up for running.  In fact,I had my lowest cycling month in almost two years in October.  I'm wondering where I should start in TR, and what to do for the 3 months before my 12-week TT plan starts in March.

I've been waiting for Ben to field this, but I know he doesn't use TR, but I'm bumping for discussion of the bold  Haha--no pressure Ben!

Kim, what have you used in the past on TR?

I'm not Ben, but I'll give my input.  After my test (which also was after lots of running with little biking), I was suggested lots of VO2 Work on the bike.  Currently I'm doing a VO2 type workout on Tuesdays and a more threshold type workout on Thursday.  I'll be doing another FTP test in December to see what the difference is.

The reason for the recommendation was based off the fact that my 1min to 5min power being too similar to my 20 minute power (in terms of where they should be along the power curve).  It's apparently a common phenomenon among triathletes.

A pretty knowledgeable coach (This is Francois again, Switch) gave this as an example:
At this time of the year, for an athlete who is time constrained and who rides on the trainer only, I would do 2 workouts, one with a VO2max focus, the other with a tempo / LT focus so say:

1. 60min ride as 10min warm up, 5x(10secs at 140% of FTP - R:50secs), 5min easy. Then 5x3min at 120-125 of FTP R:3min, and finish easy.

2. 60min with 5x6min at 92-95% of FTP R:1min

So did Francois think you would improve cycling fitness riding just 2x/week?  That's gonna make my day if that's the word

I'm sure he's assuming a long ride on the weekend too, but during the week that's all he prescribes for someone who's also swimming and running.  Right now I'm doing two rides kind of like what he listed with a 2-3 hour ride on the weekend.  I'll let you know how it works in December.

You can do more riding like you figured for a longer one, noticeably easier than these two. *Generally* the TSS for the week may go down some with a high output focus like for VO2 as it's harder to reach that level when fatigued. The other riding could be one bigger one, or split it up some. Biking doesn't have the same dependency as running for this. Getting it in is more important. However, with such a focus going on, make sure you are hitting the targets. The VO2 specific one is going to be very hard. So do what you like for additional riding, just nail those two he gave you.

I wasn't entirely clear on how he made his decision, just what he based it on. Were you able to get more info? He seems to go by the 1' vs 5' vs 20' points, but not quite sure where it *should* be and at what point it *should* become more of a focus.

And my earlier thought on doing the FTP test was mostly to just get used to being on the bike again, after being off it for awhile. It's very possible to do the test right away (Andrew Coggan: Anyone who can't do 2 x 20' out of the box is doing it wrong or needs to HTFU), I just think it'll go a bit better after getting some familiarity back. If someone isn't planning threshold based work for a bit, then sure, take more time before doing it. Experiment with some pacing. There's no hard set rule, and it's quite likely one will do it again before too long anyway.

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by kcarroll

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by kcarroll

I'm still working on improving diet, with modest success. In the spirit of finding a win....sometime in the next two weeks I'm going to get my arse back on the bike, do the dreaded 20 minute FTP test and start TR Intermediate Base. AND maintain my 20 mpw run. 

I'm sure I'll leave it to the last minute, but if I put it out there...it usually gets done. Hope everyone has a good weekend. 

Nice! Are you going to get a few rides in before the test?

That's the plan. What would you recommend? # rides, intensity etc that I get done prior to starting the program/testing. While I've been running consistently 6 days/week the last couple months I've lost my bike fitness gains from the summer. No riding at all the last few months. Last winter I spent too much time in Z2 on the trainer. I want to use TR to put structure/intensity into my trainer rides. Ive used TR and am insanely motivated to chase my output targets. 

I'm in the same boat...all I've done are some easy trainer rides mostly as recovery or as a warm up for running.  In fact,I had my lowest cycling month in almost two years in October.  I'm wondering where I should start in TR, and what to do for the 3 months before my 12-week TT plan starts in March.

I've been waiting for Ben to field this, but I know he doesn't use TR, but I'm bumping for discussion of the bold  Haha--no pressure Ben!

Kim, what have you used in the past on TR?

Mike, you should start with an FTP test,as all your workouts will then be based on that number.  I think the "base" plans are good place to get started and see how you like things.  You can always switch in another ride or create one of your own, if you have something specific you'd like to work.  I just used the "custom" ride feature last week for the first time, and it's pretty cool.  It kind of serves as a learning tool too, because you can see what kind of TSS and IF the rides you create generate and it drives it home a bit when you do the ride and "feel" it

 

Sorry...I don't think I was clear.    I'm familiar with TR...I actually started using it when it was in Beta back in fall 2011.  I really like some of the stock workouts (especially Jorge's stuff and the Sufferfest ones), and I fiddled around with the workout creator, too.  According to the TR folks, I've spent 4.3 days on the trainer which sounds just awful. 

My issue is I don't know what to do with my bike training over the next three months.  My 'A' race is the end of May and I'm going to use their 40k TT plan starting the beginning of March.  From a periodization perspective, I think I should be in just Base/Prep until then, but I guess that doesn't mean I can't thrash a little on the bike, right?  I wasn't planning on testing until I get a couple of weeks back in the saddle...I'm just using my old FTP and keeping the effort aerobic for now.  Maybe I should just use on of those base plans so I have something to follow other than "I think I'll do this today".

 

I'm not familiar with the specifics of the plans, but have heard of them. Do they have multiple 40k plans? Think my brother was looking at them. From now until then, you'll want to work on increasing your performance across the aerobic spectrum to build a well rounded aerobic "base". All the way up into Z5 (VO2) is still aerobic as that's the limit of aerobic performance. The plan you're looking at for the race should stress the more race specific aspects of this spectrum to (hopefully) have them peak for the event.

I'm going to stick with my core/hip/achilles challenge because I didn't do as well as I would have liked last week.  So, core and hip done for today. 

A number of things are kind of rolling around. Swimming has been a lot more fun, so have been looking at a variety of things involving it or events with a higher percentage of it. So probably getting into a few more swim meets this season. Last year I didn't know about them and wanted to avoid burn-out. Turns out most all the meets are through the winter, so kind of missed out there. Probably another open water swim or two. Of course just doing better in tri. Maybe another bigger aquabike in there. The possibility of Fina Worlds was brought up after the last meet, as it's only in Montreal this year. I'm not fast enough yet, but the gap doesn't seem impossible with the jumps I get at times. Not sure I can afford the trip either, but just making the qualification time would be something.

Then there is just the day-in, day-out fun of being able to push it. And that just might be the biggest motivator. 

Thanks, Ben.  That's good info.

RE:  TT plans...they have three of them, with three different volume levels that average about 4, 7, and 10 hours/week.  I'm planning on the low volume one to coincide with my run and swim training.  The weekly TSS starts at about 250 and peaks at 400ish. 

This reminded me of a question  I had for you.  I remember you saying before that you had been pretty into weight training and you were  kind of a bigger muscly guy.  How would you define your body's default body type--mesomorph?  As you shifted into tris you've dropped a considerable amount of mass, and I'm assuming quite a bit of that was muscle too, as I'm guessing you were fairly lean before.  Ayway, with all this swimming that you're doing, are you adding muscle to your upper body, and how, if at all, is that impacting your cycling and running?  Do you try to actively manage that at all?

Good stuff Kirsten.  I wanted to thank you again for posting that article.  I really think my leg issues have improved a lot in the last week from really focusing on the strength work.  The added bonus is that working hips and glutes will be good for the month I'm about to spend in a bikini, lol :)

So the peak v general fitness thread in the TT forum had me checking out Training Peaks.  I'm going to give that a go.

How many of you use Training Peaks?  Any suggestions?  Tips? Thoughts?