SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! (Page 34)

3 hour OWS?  I'd be interested on what Shane thinks.  While a swim before the bike/run would give you some good info, I'm not sure about a swim that long.  You'd be putting yourself in a major calorie deficit once you get out of the water and I'm not sure your IM nutrition plan will work as well for this workout.

Yeah, I'm wondering about that too. Would you be swimming for 3 hours or more like an hour or so that your race would be? 3 hrs goes well up into double iron or ultraman territory. These will include fueling on the swim and need it.

Agreed that 3 hours is a really long swim. I've done it a few times and it wiped me out for the day each time.

I'm betting this is a typo, or that Fred wants to do part of a 3 hour swim others are doing.   I don't see anyone, much less Shane, recommending a 3 hour swim in any part of an IM build, especially with a 5 hour /:40 brick......

4 x 1K intervals on the track this morning.   Learning new things every time I go out there, but that extra 400M starts to put a different kind of hurt on it.

My .02 (assuming it's not a 3 hour swim  ) other than camping out at the lake all day, you might get a ride to the lake?  But then you have to have all your bike gear etc., leave your swim stuff with your friend.  Might not be a problem but might be.  For me, on those really long IM training days to get good quality stuff in (which there were not that many of), I'd just dedicate the day to it.  I'd go to the lake, do a :30 swim or whatever, ride the 5 and run the :40, then go home.  Car will be a reliable "T1/T2" and, at least for me, it just made it easier than worrying about the logistics you mention

But I don't have kids so it's a whole nother ball of wax for me.

800s at the track for me this afternoon after some VO2max stuff on the bike this morning.  Rubber legs tonight.  Should make that optional 25 x 100 kick interesting in the morning....

Here's a little write up of the local Donut Ride, the one I did for the first time last weekend (didn't do the alley,  but I know it).   A bit of hyperbole, of course, but not all...

The Donut Ride

Of course, no one can tell you what YOU should do.  So, here's how I think of it...

My family is very supportive of me training.  That involves lots of little sacrifices on their parts - all of which I appreciate and for all of which I try to reciprocate (they're crazy in their own ways, too!).  I try to use my "big day" passes for things I really REALLY want to do.

So, if this type of workout is one that you really have an itch for, use the pass (time away from family), enjoy the hell out of it and then do something great with the family (once you've recovered from that swim! ). 

If it's not up there with other things that might require a pass from the fam (like a race or something), then think hard about doing it or not.  In the latter case, **I** would pass and just get my workout on in a more family friendly way.  Buuuut, if this were something I really wanted, then I'd do it.

How's THAT for not very helpful?!?!?

I never presume to suggest to others how to balance things with their families, as everyone has a different way to do so positively.  Just how I think about it...

Matt

Hey guys, I just arrived in Whistler Village, getting settled.  I'm not super optimistic about my race with the training I missed letting my leg heal up.  But who knows maybe I'll surprise myself.  It's nice to be on a mini-vacation though, and definitely nice to drive to a race instead of flying like the last one!

Nice, even if the race doesn't go as planned, it's so beautiful just make it a nice long training day.   and the rest may have just been what the dr. ordered.    Good luck, we'll be following

Thanks!  Yeah someone asked me if I was going to do a little jogging before the race.  But there's no benefit to knowing if my leg is healed or not.  And if it makes it worse then the bike could be miserable.  Right now it feels pretty good so I'm leaving it alone.

Looks like I'm #1667 on the participant list.  I got here a little late for registration, so I'll know for sure tomorrow.

I like the bike course layout.  I think it'll work well for me if I go real slow on the opening hill.  The long downhill and flat through Pemberton will make it easy to conserve and hopefully have a strong finish back up the hill.  I keep reminding myself: head down, miles 60-90.  Make the most of that flat section.

Best of luck Mark!  I hope things are all good with the leg and you have an awesome race!

Good luck, Mark!

Hey Fred - I can't comment on the value of the time away from family - only you can put that in to context with what you have going on. In my IM simulation days I found out the most about nutrition, pacing, etc on the days that started with a 1:10 swim before the bike. There is something about spending that much time horizontal and then transitioning to vertical that I think is important in doing a systems check. 5 hours is plenty of time on the bike, but IME you could cut the run shorter than that if you were pressed for time and really just treat it as a transition run. You know how to run off the bike, and you don't need a long run to find out if you your plan is dialed in on the swim and bike. The couple of times I did 1:10 swim/5 hour bike/15 minute run told me everything I needed to know and I was good to go on Race day.

Rusty, curious what more typical kick work looks like for you? I had some issues building up earlier on in that my hips & ankles/forefoot could easily be overstressed. Not just tired muscles, but actually straining something in there. Enough that it could affect my running and even riding (to a small degree) the next couple days. They didn't have the strength left for the needed support. Quads could be forced through a big set, but these other areas would be risking injury to get through. Rolling an ankle became a very real possibility.

If you're regularly getting 10-15% of the weekly volume in as kicking, that sounded like plenty from what anyone has said. Highest I've seen in previous discussions was up to 20%. My interest in this comes from an increased interest in doing IM and the other strokes for some meets. These are more kick dependent than freestyle, particularly the longer distance swims in any triathlon, and my ability there is actually relatively less than with the flutter kick.

Enjoy the race, Mark!  Looks like a beautiful course!

Thanks everyone for the comments on the setup - have been working to try and squeeze everything I can out if the bike and the engine I can this go-round. Arend, I can't WAIT till I get to tell my wife I need a new helmet with a little red in it - she is a designer as well, so I am SURE she will get it....

Yeah Fred W/kg are sitting right around 3.9~4.0 which is piddly compared to some of the big motors in the group, but I suppose is still pretty good for us AG triathletes. I have intentionally been targeting lumpier races this year to take advantage and have had some success. I don't think the Milwaukee course is going to suit me though - from the looks of it there is only about 300 feet of elevation in 40k. W/kg won't help much on a course like that!

Yeah, I hear you Fred. The weekday group I ride with has been doing a "Shadow Tour" for the last 3 weeks. Basically you put a couple of bucks in for as many as three riders who you think will win the sage that day, and if you ride with the group AND one of your riders wins you get the pot. Also the route we ride gets changed each day to resemble the tour route, albeit only 40~45 miles long. Prizes for the top 3 finishers each day. On the first two Wednesdays I was at least in the scrum for the sprints and got on the podium both days. I was feeling like I was somebody. This past Wednesday though was the "Pla d'Adet" stage - four little funny climbs, the last being a short but incredibly steep local wall. I don't think I can hit over 800 max watts on a good day, so I need a loooooong run to the finish - no way I can hang with the big 1200~1400w dudes on an all-out 45 second effort. They went away from me so fast it was stunning. But, on the upside, none of them can swim or run very well! :^P

and good luck to you Jeremy - you are going to have a blast! Can't wait to read the race report.

Getting up around 4.0 is not "piddly"! I think the relationship between power, W/kg and elevations tends to be overblown in both directions. Just go ride your bike. The execution matters far more than this does.

Execution most often beats fast, probably my favorite thing about triathlon, especially long-course. It is all about planning and the ability to properly execute that plan, no matter what else is going on around you. That, and the ability to stay calm and keep your sh*t together when the unexpected occurs.

Ben, logs are open, and I try to remember and write down all our masters sets - I put them in training peaks so my coach knows what we did and then copy them here. This was the set from this morning - it had a little more kicking than usual - looks like right at 25% total volume:

400 of (75 free -25 kick on back w/ hands flat at side)

300 of (75 free - 25 kick and rotate with one shoulder dry)

200 of (75 free - 25 kick w/ one arm extended and shoulder dry)

100 of (3 strokes & 8 kicks w/arm extended)

Swim 100, 200, 300 IM, :10, :20, 30 rest

Pull 300, 200 (w/ paddles), :30, :20 rest

20x100:
1-5 free steady on 1:40
6-10 kick steady (odds free, evens breast) :15 rest
11-15 free descend 1-5 on 1:50
16-20 kick steady w/fins (odds dolphin, evens free)

200 choice warm-down

I hear you on the physical impact of a lot of kicking. I have historically had some issues of chronic tendinosis in my hip flexors, so I took it really cautiously as I began to try and take the kicking more "seriously." I was a little worried about it on the 2500 set, but it was fine - I felt it a little later in the day but I have learned some good stretches with blocks in yoga class that keep it at bay. Of course I think slowing down and just doing all the kick sets in masters for the last 4 months has helped with that as well. Honestly I think as much as I hate it kicking helps recover my legs better after big bikes and runs.

*edited to fix bad math & remembered we descended the last 5x100 free, not build.

Edited by TankBoy 2014-07-25 9:36 AM