BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Fred D Mentor Group Part III Rss Feed  
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2012-10-19 9:50 AM
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2012-10-19 10:36 AM
in reply to: #4433790

Master
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Goodyear, AZ
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Re: AG doping. I think this is a very deep issue. The pressure to "cheat" starts early, even in High School. Lack of integrity is huge in our society as a whole, not just in athletics. It's really hard as a parent to instill the values of honesty and integrity in a society that encourages impatience. I know some AGers who will do whatever it takes to get on the podium. I even have my suspicions about one of my training partners. 

2012-10-19 10:49 AM
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2012-10-19 11:30 AM
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Elite
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Ontario
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Also in the "disappointed but not surprised" camp.  I think that if race series, big or small, incorporate some very random testing, some athletes may be inclined not to cheat.  But I would not want to see rampant testing and soaring costs - for most of us this is still fun, even though we're competitive.  I also think there have to be different standards compared to Elites.  Life would not be as much fun if I was checking doping controls anytime I had to take medication, purchased an over the counter supplement, etc.
2012-10-19 11:36 AM
in reply to: #4460739

Pro
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

GoFaster - 2012-10-19 12:30 PM Also in the "disappointed but not surprised" camp.  I think that if race series, big or small, incorporate some very random testing, some athletes may be inclined not to cheat.  But I would not want to see rampant testing and soaring costs - for most of us this is still fun, even though we're competitive.  I also think there have to be different standards compared to Elites.  Life would not be as much fun if I was checking doping controls anytime I had to take medication, purchased an over the counter supplement, etc.

I pretty much agree with everything Neil said.

BarryP 10mpw is going great. One more of those, and I'm jumping to 15mpw! (yes - MUCH more than 10% - no, not a huge jump for me/my fitness/my running history)

2012-10-19 11:47 AM
in reply to: #4460520

Champion
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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
TSimone - 2012-10-19 11:35 AM

If you had a medical condition that required you to take a banned substance AND a TUE was denied, would you still race? I know the word "required" may be subjective, other variables could come into play and I'll understand if y'all dont want to answer.


I would not; instead I would take the medication to be healthy and not compete. Instead I would stick to coaching and just being active.

However, most TUE's are relatively easy to obtain, assuming the athlete has a prescription. In fact, while I would get a TUE for a med if prescribed, AGers usually don't have to have a TUE in place and are simply required to obtain one in the event they are tested. One notable exception to this is testosterone for which the TUE must be in place prior to competition and a TUE for testosterone is not easy to obtain (from what I've heard).

Shane


2012-10-19 12:32 PM
in reply to: #4460348

Master
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Fred D - 2012-10-19 9:12 AM

Good luck to our racers this weekend. Have fun and be safe!

I am off for the next 3 days and very much looking forward to that.

Lots of riding soon but DTM coming up before all that to get the piriformis better.

I don't generally like to talk highly controversial stuff in this group, but I wonder what people think about the Age Grouper who was caught taking testosterone (see ST)??

I am seriously wondering how many AGers are doping? How many KQers?

I'm in this sport for the training and friends, not for the winning, but it disappoints me greatly that people cheat.

Thoughts?


You know; cheater are going to cheat, mean people will be mean and the world goes round and round.
 
I know that I don’t.
 
 
Like Fred I am in it for the training, liked minded people, but I want to win. 

 

 

2012-10-19 12:35 PM
in reply to: #4460467

Master
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

axteraa - 2012-10-19 10:09 AM I'm with Shane, disappointed but not surprised one bit.  I hope they can manage to catch more to at least make some people think twice about it.

Public flogging should solve it right. 

 

 

2012-10-19 12:36 PM
in reply to: #4433790

Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
The thought of taking a PED for triathlon has never even crossed my mind.  It's a hobby fer chrissakes. That said, I would bet money that some do, maybe evenmore than some.  We have a local guy that was rumoured to dabble, but it's not like he ever won anything.  I have several KQ friends and would also bet money that none of them have ever taken anything.  But I could always be wrong
2012-10-19 12:38 PM
in reply to: #4460520

Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
TSimone - 2012-10-19 10:35 AM

Along those lines, I held off posting this question a week or so ago. So here it is: If you had a medical condition that required you to take a banned substance AND a TUE was denied, would you still race? I know the word "required" may be subjective, other variables could come into play and I'll understand if y'all dont want to answer.

 

 

I don't understand the question.  What is "AND a TUE was denied"?

 

 

2012-10-19 12:52 PM
in reply to: #4460649

Master
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
riorio - 2012-10-19 11:36 AM

Re: AG doping. I think this is a very deep issue. The pressure to "cheat" starts early, even in High School. Lack of integrity is huge in our society as a whole, not just in athletics. It's really hard as a parent to instill the values of honesty and integrity in a society that encourages impatience. I know some AGers who will do whatever it takes to get on the podium. I even have my suspicions about one of my training partners. 

A lot of this I agree with.  Integrity needed to come form the parents.  Kids will mimic anything; it’s the parents that need to be solid in their moral values.  ONE of the things I truly believe that was the success of us raising 3 adults was the word NO.

 



2012-10-19 12:59 PM
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2012-10-19 1:06 PM
in reply to: #4460865

Master
5557
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, California
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
TSimone - 2012-10-19 10:59 AM
tasr - 2012-10-19 1:38 PM
TSimone - 2012-10-19 10:35 AM

Along those lines, I held off posting this question a week or so ago. So here it is: If you had a medical condition that required you to take a banned substance AND a TUE was denied, would you still race? I know the word "required" may be subjective, other variables could come into play and I'll understand if y'all dont want to answer.

 

 

I don't understand the question.  What is "AND a TUE was denied"?

 

 

You followed the process to get an exemption but USADA (here in the States) denied it. Testerone is probably a likely denial, as Shane mentioned. Not sure about others drugs.

Asthma drugs for someone without a history of a problem would be another example.

2012-10-19 1:17 PM
in reply to: #4433790

Master
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, California
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

As for AGers and doping - I never gave it a second thought.  I'm comfortable in my own skin and I train and race to the best of my ability.  Other people are not my concern.  My college coaches really drilled that attitude into us.

Now if I knew someone supplying kids - like high school football is common - yes of course I'd speak up.

2012-10-19 1:17 PM
in reply to: #4433790

Master
2621
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Alright I get it now.
 
I probable still had drugs in me when I did my first races of this season.  But I assure you I had stopped taken them and they where take in a life or death situation.  Well as if I didn’t get cured I most likely would have die of the cause. 
 
 
So as to Toms question how critical would those drugs be needed?  I guess if one applies for exemption that would surly count as good faith as in one is taken drugs.  Cheaters are not necessarily going to try to get exemption, yes?
 
And what if you’re under doctor’s care?  That sounds alright to me.


 

2012-10-19 1:41 PM
in reply to: #4460821

Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Did the 600y set that was recommended earlier this week but added a 2x300 to warm up

So it went

2x300 @ 6:00 really easy coming in around 5:00
3x200 @ 4:00 easy coming in around 3:09
6x100 @ 1:50 coming in around 1:29
6x50   @ 0:50 coming in around 43

Was supposed to do 12x50 but I was just gassed.  I didn't take any rest in between sets...I forgot if I was supposed to.  It wasn't bad between the first 3 sets, but in between the 6x100 and starting the 6x50...I think I was supposed to take a 30 second break.



2012-10-19 1:47 PM
in reply to: #4460939

Master
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, California
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
tri808 - 2012-10-19 11:41 AM

Did the 600y set that was recommended earlier this week but added a 2x300 to warm up

So it went

2x300 @ 6:00 really easy coming in around 5:00
3x200 @ 4:00 easy coming in around 3:09
6x100 @ 1:50 coming in around 1:29
6x50   @ 0:50 coming in around 43

Was supposed to do 12x50 but I was just gassed.  I didn't take any rest in between sets...I forgot if I was supposed to.  It wasn't bad between the first 3 sets, but in between the 6x100 and starting the 6x50...I think I was supposed to take a 30 second break.

Yeah I forgot to add wu / cd on that.

The last set is sort of like the end of a 6x4' on the bike.  You should be barely hanging on.  When my friend first gave me that set he had me doing 2x200, 4x100, 8x50 just to get used to it.

Looking at your numbers I'd say you probably went a little too hard on the 100s.



Edited by spudone 2012-10-19 1:48 PM
2012-10-19 1:47 PM
in reply to: #4460381

Champion
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
gsmacleod - 2012-10-19 7:24 AM
Fred D - 2012-10-19 10:12 AMI don't generally like to talk highly controversial stuff in this group, but I wonder what people think about the Age Grouper who was caught taking testosterone (see ST)??

I am seriously wondering how many AGers are doping? How many KQers?

I'm in this sport for the training and friends, not for the winning, but it disappoints me greatly that people cheat.

Thoughts?

Very disappointed but not at all surprised. With the importance that some place on qualifying for events combined with almost zero chance of being caught with one's hand in the cookie jar, then the risk:reward is going to be seen as quite favourable for those who are inclined to seek out any advantage.Shane
X2. I'll add that I don't know if it is worth it to start drug testing AG athletes more regularly...I would probably get a kick out of being asked for a drug test but I don't know if the money is worth it for something most people do for a good time. Don't get me wrong I like being successful and am anti-doping but how far can we realistically take it?

Edited by mndymond 2012-10-19 1:51 PM
2012-10-19 1:50 PM
in reply to: #4460870

Champion
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
spudone - 2012-10-19 12:06 PM
TSimone - 2012-10-19 10:59 AM
tasr - 2012-10-19 1:38 PM
TSimone - 2012-10-19 10:35 AM

Along those lines, I held off posting this question a week or so ago. So here it is: If you had a medical condition that required you to take a banned substance AND a TUE was denied, would you still race? I know the word "required" may be subjective, other variables could come into play and I'll understand if y'all dont want to answer.

 

 

I don't understand the question.  What is "AND a TUE was denied"?

 

 

You followed the process to get an exemption but USADA (here in the States) denied it. Testerone is probably a likely denial, as Shane mentioned. Not sure about others drugs.

Asthma drugs for someone without a history of a problem would be another example.

I think they would probably just get really jittery and agitated. Don't know how much it would really help with athletic performance to be honest.
2012-10-19 3:24 PM
in reply to: #4460948

Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
spudone - 2012-10-19 8:47 AM
tri808 - 2012-10-19 11:41 AM

Did the 600y set that was recommended earlier this week but added a 2x300 to warm up

So it went

2x300 @ 6:00 really easy coming in around 5:00
3x200 @ 4:00 easy coming in around 3:09
6x100 @ 1:50 coming in around 1:29
6x50   @ 0:50 coming in around 43

Was supposed to do 12x50 but I was just gassed.  I didn't take any rest in between sets...I forgot if I was supposed to.  It wasn't bad between the first 3 sets, but in between the 6x100 and starting the 6x50...I think I was supposed to take a 30 second break.

Yeah I forgot to add wu / cd on that.

The last set is sort of like the end of a 6x4' on the bike.  You should be barely hanging on.  When my friend first gave me that set he had me doing 2x200, 4x100, 8x50 just to get used to it.

Looking at your numbers I'd say you probably went a little too hard on the 100s.

Yeah...my goal was to come in around 1:31 for the 100's so I could focus on going hard for the 50's but I felt good at the time.  Underestimated how hard the 50's would be after that though.

2012-10-19 5:02 PM
in reply to: #4433790

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Ahhhh, finally home after being away since Sunday!  I'm hoping that will be it for work travel for a while.  I can't sustain having to eat like that.  I had some seriously good food but I don't think it helped the weight situation.....


2012-10-19 5:42 PM
in reply to: #4460870

Master
2770
20005001001002525
Central Kansas
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
spudone - 2012-10-19 1:06 PM
TSimone - 2012-10-19 10:59 AM
tasr - 2012-10-19 1:38 PM
TSimone - 2012-10-19 10:35 AM

Along those lines, I held off posting this question a week or so ago. So here it is: If you had a medical condition that required you to take a banned substance AND a TUE was denied, would you still race? I know the word "required" may be subjective, other variables could come into play and I'll understand if y'all dont want to answer.

 

 

I don't understand the question.  What is "AND a TUE was denied"?

 

 

You followed the process to get an exemption but USADA (here in the States) denied it. Testerone is probably a likely denial, as Shane mentioned. Not sure about others drugs.

Asthma drugs for someone without a history of a problem would be another example.

As some of you may recall, I let slip in my introduction that I'm going through menopause. I'm not going the HRT route, but I have wondered what doing so would mean for racing. I have also wondered if some of the women in my age group are using HRT, legitimately (almost certainly the case), and if it influences the way they race. I know there would be other benefits that could affect my racing -- better sleep, fewer hot flashes while running (not fun), fewer joint aches, etc. I haven't yet checked to see if any of those hormones are on the banned list, however.



Edited by KansasMom 2012-10-19 5:43 PM
2012-10-19 6:37 PM
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Edited by Fred D 2012-10-19 6:40 PM
2012-10-19 6:39 PM
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2012-10-19 7:39 PM
in reply to: #4461328

Master
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Fred D - 2012-10-19 7:39 PM Tried to bike today but hit the wall completely. Actually struggled to get home, which likely relates to the 100 hours I have worked out of the last 7 days. Hoping I can rest tonight....

Well that is why I gave you Kudos Smile

Don't you carry a gu or 2 on your rides?

 

 

 

 

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