SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 35)

I really didn't want to drag a TT topic over here. I chose my words carefully, because it's not obvious if the problem is the coach, the athlete, both or none. I sincerely thought maybe my expectations are out of whack and I cannot appreciate what it would be like to be swimming at that speed. Maybe I'm an elitist

My question is more along the line of how long do you give a coach to show results, what are realistic expectations and I guess even can a coach fire an athlete.

How long do you wait for results before changing strategies ?

I'll take it one further. Should one ask a coach for reasonable goals, and if the person does everything they were told to, hold the coach accountable ? Should the coach fire the athlete or reset expectations if the athlete is not holding their part of the deal ?

I wish Shane was around :-)

He seems to be on a BT hiatus, I haven't seen him on here (or in TT) since before Christmas.

I really didn't want to drag a TT topic over here. I chose my words carefully, because it's not obvious if the problem is the coach, the athlete, both or none. I sincerely thought maybe my expectations are out of whack and I cannot appreciate what it would be like to be swimming at that speed. Maybe I'm an elitist

My question is more along the line of how long do you give a coach to show results, what are realistic expectations and I guess even can a coach fire an athlete.

How long do you wait for results before changing strategies ?

I'll take it one further. Should one ask a coach for reasonable goals, and if the person does everything they were told to, hold the coach accountable ? Should the coach fire the athlete or reset expectations if the athlete is not holding their part of the deal ?

I wish Shane was around :-)

I really didn't want to drag a TT topic over here. I chose my words carefully, because it's not obvious if the problem is the coach, the athlete, both or none. I sincerely thought maybe my expectations are out of whack and I cannot appreciate what it would be like to be swimming at that speed. Maybe I'm an elitist

My question is more along the line of how long do you give a coach to show results, what are realistic expectations and I guess even can a coach fire an athlete.

How long do you wait for results before changing strategies ?

I'll take it one further. Should one ask a coach for reasonable goals, and if the person does everything they were told to, hold the coach accountable ? Should the coach fire the athlete or reset expectations if the athlete is not holding their part of the deal ?

I wish Shane was around :-)

Trust me...you did nothing wrong by bringing the topic up.  And I don't think anyone else did as well...but *I* was about to go off topic, so I figured I would make an example out of myself...LOL.

Anyway, I think Mark and Kim are both right.  The athlete probably bears some responsibility, and if a coach realizes that they do not work well with an athlete...they should advise the athlete to look elsewhere instead of continuing to charge coaching fees knowing their methods are not working well for that individual.

Question to this group

In the TT forum there was a person who after 160 hours of swimming last year, with a coach on deck the whole time, went from a 2:39/100m to 2:29/100m.

Do you think this is acceptable ?

I know swimming is tough for adult onset athletes, but after 160 hours of work with a coach ? I could see someone who got no correction only making marginal improvements, or someone that was already at a relatively fast pace, but wow, for me that just screams a coach who isn't efficient at conveying a message. Either not doing what's right or not getting through to the athlete.

Are my expectations out of whack ?

How do you measure the efficiency of a coach/athlete relationship ?

How much time would you give a coach to see results ?

Show off...

OK, here is my wrist - go ahead and slap it!  I went over to TT and read the original post and I have to make a comment.

There is simply not enough accurate information from which to draw a conclusion.  You can't compare a HIM open water swim pace to a 4K swim pace to a 500M TT pace w/fins to a 400Y TT w/o fins to a WHATEVER.

I would say do a TT for whatever distance fires your rocket, record that time.  In 4-6 weeks, do the SAME distance (500M and 500Y are NOT the same distance!), preferably in the SAME pool, record that time (yes the pool can make a difference, back when I was swimming, there were a couple pools that were consistently 5-10% faster).  In 4-6 weeks, do it again.  Then we can talk.

As to the efficiency of the coach/athlete relationship - Let me first qualify this by saying that when I was swimming I was fortunate enough to train under a gentleman who is arguably the greatest swimming coach that has ever been involved in the sport, so I never had to deal with this type of situation.  That said, it ultimately comes down to the athlete; the responsibility for progress begins and ends there.  The old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink," comes to mind.  If the athlete is OK paying out however much money then, so be it.

-- BUT --

In this case, it is hard to tell what is going on without accurate, quantifiable empirical evidence that is gathered properly.

Just my two cents.

Seriously. I mean Fred is swimming 14k a day right now. You need to tighten up...

Scott, from my perspective you are spot-on. I get a tremendous amount of personal attention from my coach because I listen and put in the work. I know that he has other athletes that pay more money than I do but do not get the same kind of attention because they don't do either. I know (as I am sure he does as well) that these clients aren't really trying to get faster, they just like having a coach because, well, they like just talking about having a coach, and maybe even b*tching on BT about it every now and again. Should my coach fire those athletes? Maybe, but I am glad he does not as they subsidize my work with him. The clients that my coach does fire are the ones that don't put in the work AND need a lot of attention, petting and "atta boys!" But there are a good number of coaches in town that do work with those clients, and they charge a good bit of money to do so. To these folks a coach is just another accessory.While it is not the kind of job I would want, I am cool with it. It takes all kinds, right?

Good, I think this guy might move up to his age group next year?

....Pretty sure fly is first (with back following) so people don't drown.

Good, I think this guy might move up to his age group next year?

Good, I think this guy might move up to his age group next year?

I'm actually at a loss for words with that one - I mean, really...3 hours in the pool and "the time just flies by".  Can...not...imagine.