SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 35)
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-09 4:53 PM tri808 - 2013-01-09 1:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to...
I really didn't want to drag a TT topic over here. I chose my words carefully, because it's not obvious if the problem is the coach, the athlete, both or none. I sincerely thought maybe my expectations are out of whack and I cannot appreciate what it would be like to be swimming at that speed. Maybe I'm an elitist My question is more along the line of how long do you give a coach to show results, what are realistic expectations and I guess even can a coach fire an athlete. How long do you wait for results before changing strategies ? I'll take it one further. Should one ask a coach for reasonable goals, and if the person does everything they were told to, hold the coach accountable ? Should the coach fire the athlete or reset expectations if the athlete is not holding their part of the deal ? I wish Shane was around :-) He seems to be on a BT hiatus, I haven't seen him on here (or in TT) since before Christmas. |
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![]() axteraa - 2013-01-09 1:49 PM I think be might be working with some high caliber new athlete that is asking all sorts of probing and relevant questions an taking all his time. Or perhaps te opposite of all of that. One of those two things.....marcag - 2013-01-09 4:53 PM tri808 - 2013-01-09 1:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to...
I really didn't want to drag a TT topic over here. I chose my words carefully, because it's not obvious if the problem is the coach, the athlete, both or none. I sincerely thought maybe my expectations are out of whack and I cannot appreciate what it would be like to be swimming at that speed. Maybe I'm an elitist My question is more along the line of how long do you give a coach to show results, what are realistic expectations and I guess even can a coach fire an athlete. How long do you wait for results before changing strategies ? I'll take it one further. Should one ask a coach for reasonable goals, and if the person does everything they were told to, hold the coach accountable ? Should the coach fire the athlete or reset expectations if the athlete is not holding their part of the deal ? I wish Shane was around :-) He seems to be on a BT hiatus, I haven't seen him on here (or in TT) since before Christmas. Edited by ChrisM 2013-01-09 4:09 PM |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-09 12:53 PM tri808 - 2013-01-09 1:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to...
I really didn't want to drag a TT topic over here. I chose my words carefully, because it's not obvious if the problem is the coach, the athlete, both or none. I sincerely thought maybe my expectations are out of whack and I cannot appreciate what it would be like to be swimming at that speed. Maybe I'm an elitist My question is more along the line of how long do you give a coach to show results, what are realistic expectations and I guess even can a coach fire an athlete. How long do you wait for results before changing strategies ? I'll take it one further. Should one ask a coach for reasonable goals, and if the person does everything they were told to, hold the coach accountable ? Should the coach fire the athlete or reset expectations if the athlete is not holding their part of the deal ? I wish Shane was around :-) Not to drag names around but certain posters present a common theme. Let's just say I don't think the coach is the issue here. Next! |
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![]() marcag - 2013-01-09 10:53 AM tri808 - 2013-01-09 1:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to...
I really didn't want to drag a TT topic over here. I chose my words carefully, because it's not obvious if the problem is the coach, the athlete, both or none. I sincerely thought maybe my expectations are out of whack and I cannot appreciate what it would be like to be swimming at that speed. Maybe I'm an elitist My question is more along the line of how long do you give a coach to show results, what are realistic expectations and I guess even can a coach fire an athlete. How long do you wait for results before changing strategies ? I'll take it one further. Should one ask a coach for reasonable goals, and if the person does everything they were told to, hold the coach accountable ? Should the coach fire the athlete or reset expectations if the athlete is not holding their part of the deal ? I wish Shane was around :-) Trust me...you did nothing wrong by bringing the topic up. And I don't think anyone else did as well...but *I* was about to go off topic, so I figured I would make an example out of myself...LOL. Anyway, I think Mark and Kim are both right. The athlete probably bears some responsibility, and if a coach realizes that they do not work well with an athlete...they should advise the athlete to look elsewhere instead of continuing to charge coaching fees knowing their methods are not working well for that individual. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Speaking of swimming . . . I got back in the pool this afternoon. Everything was a little better. I am thinking of a million things while I am going down the lane, and a couple times today, I actually felt like everything was clicking. I wanted to run 6 miles today, but hubby just called and he is stuck at work. 16 year old is out running around with a friend. 12 year old has youth group. That leaves me and the wee one, so the 6 miler isn't happening. I think I will hit the trainer and then try to get a short run in when someone responsible returns to relieve me. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri808- 2013-01-09 4:58 PM I have never been a coach, but I have had similar experience in teaching. I have had to have the "this major is not really for you" discussion with a few advisees over the years. It's not fun, but it's also not ethical to let someone think she has a future in something when there really seems to be little hope, especially if you are gaining financially from her self delusion.marcag - 2013-01-09 10:53 AM tri808 - 2013-01-09 1:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to...
I really didn't want to drag a TT topic over here. I chose my words carefully, because it's not obvious if the problem is the coach, the athlete, both or none. I sincerely thought maybe my expectations are out of whack and I cannot appreciate what it would be like to be swimming at that speed. Maybe I'm an elitist My question is more along the line of how long do you give a coach to show results, what are realistic expectations and I guess even can a coach fire an athlete. How long do you wait for results before changing strategies ? I'll take it one further. Should one ask a coach for reasonable goals, and if the person does everything they were told to, hold the coach accountable ? Should the coach fire the athlete or reset expectations if the athlete is not holding their part of the deal ? I wish Shane was around :-) Trust me...you did nothing wrong by bringing the topic up. And I don't think anyone else did as well...but *I* was about to go off topic, so I figured I would make an example out of myself...LOL. Anyway, I think Mark and Kim are both right. The athlete probably bears some responsibility, and if a coach realizes that they do not work well with an athlete...they should advise the athlete to look elsewhere instead of continuing to charge coaching fees knowing their methods are not working well for that individual. ETA: That sounds overly harsh. What I mean is if it's not working, then the athlete needs to be told that she needs to look elsewhere for help. That's the ethical thing to do, in my opinion. Edited by KansasMom 2013-01-09 6:47 PM |
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![]() | ![]() Cold spell about to hit this part of Arizona. I am thinking of getting a week long "trial" membership at the gym here in town. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I made it to the pool tonight, but barely made it home. My arms hurt! I guess that's what a couple months off from swimming will do to a person. Wow. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Experior - 2013-01-09 8:12 PM I made it to the pool tonight, but barely made it home. My arms hurt! I guess that's what a couple months off from swimming will do to a person. Wow. Well, mine are kind of tired too. IM night, and I went after it. |
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![]() Got in 3700 tonight. Almost 14k in the past 8 days and I can tell the difference as my arms no longer gas out as much. Hoping to hit 50k this month. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri808 - 2013-01-10 1:50 AM Got in 3700 tonight. Almost 14k in the past 8 days and I can tell the difference as my arms no longer gas out as much. Hoping to hit 50k this month. Show off... |
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Official BT Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-09 12:33 PM Question to this group In the TT forum there was a person who after 160 hours of swimming last year, with a coach on deck the whole time, went from a 2:39/100m to 2:29/100m. Do you think this is acceptable ? I know swimming is tough for adult onset athletes, but after 160 hours of work with a coach ? I could see someone who got no correction only making marginal improvements, or someone that was already at a relatively fast pace, but wow, for me that just screams a coach who isn't efficient at conveying a message. Either not doing what's right or not getting through to the athlete. Are my expectations out of whack ? How do you measure the efficiency of a coach/athlete relationship ? How much time would you give a coach to see results ? OK, here is my wrist - go ahead and slap it! I went over to TT and read the original post and I have to make a comment. There is simply not enough accurate information from which to draw a conclusion. You can't compare a HIM open water swim pace to a 4K swim pace to a 500M TT pace w/fins to a 400Y TT w/o fins to a WHATEVER. I would say do a TT for whatever distance fires your rocket, record that time. In 4-6 weeks, do the SAME distance (500M and 500Y are NOT the same distance!), preferably in the SAME pool, record that time (yes the pool can make a difference, back when I was swimming, there were a couple pools that were consistently 5-10% faster). In 4-6 weeks, do it again. Then we can talk. As to the efficiency of the coach/athlete relationship - Let me first qualify this by saying that when I was swimming I was fortunate enough to train under a gentleman who is arguably the greatest swimming coach that has ever been involved in the sport, so I never had to deal with this type of situation. That said, it ultimately comes down to the athlete; the responsibility for progress begins and ends there. The old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink," comes to mind. If the athlete is OK paying out however much money then, so be it. -- BUT -- In this case, it is hard to tell what is going on without accurate, quantifiable empirical evidence that is gathered properly. Just my two cents. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2013-01-10 6:45 AM tri808 - 2013-01-10 1:50 AM Got in 3700 tonight. Almost 14k in the past 8 days and I can tell the difference as my arms no longer gas out as much. Hoping to hit 50k this month. Show off... Seriously. I mean Fred is swimming 14k a day right now. You need to tighten up... Looks like we are all a bunch of fishies. This has been back-to-masters week for me, and this morning I actually went to morning practice. I didn't even know the pool had water in it at 5:45am. Only two days this week, and probably next as well due to some travel, but will add a third day soon and then in March when it is warm enough for wetsuits I'll add a fourth OWS. Easy 1.5 hour paper route bike on tap for later today. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Haha. Have been putting some emphasis on being more consistent with the swim. Getting in 3 solid swims a week, and working on fitting in two more. I did it with the year end time off, but now putting them back in with work will be fun. More getting up and at it first thing in the morning, including Saturday. Then it was IM night at Masters yesterday. Lots of doing the entire series, and to make it more fun, the order was moved around each set. Pretty sure fly is first (with back following) so people don't drown. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() k9car363 - 2013-01-10 7:27 AM marcag - 2013-01-09 12:33 PM Question to this group In the TT forum there was a person who after 160 hours of swimming last year, with a coach on deck the whole time, went from a 2:39/100m to 2:29/100m. Do you think this is acceptable ? I know swimming is tough for adult onset athletes, but after 160 hours of work with a coach ? I could see someone who got no correction only making marginal improvements, or someone that was already at a relatively fast pace, but wow, for me that just screams a coach who isn't efficient at conveying a message. Either not doing what's right or not getting through to the athlete. Are my expectations out of whack ? How do you measure the efficiency of a coach/athlete relationship ? How much time would you give a coach to see results ? OK, here is my wrist - go ahead and slap it! I went over to TT and read the original post and I have to make a comment. There is simply not enough accurate information from which to draw a conclusion. You can't compare a HIM open water swim pace to a 4K swim pace to a 500M TT pace w/fins to a 400Y TT w/o fins to a WHATEVER. I would say do a TT for whatever distance fires your rocket, record that time. In 4-6 weeks, do the SAME distance (500M and 500Y are NOT the same distance!), preferably in the SAME pool, record that time (yes the pool can make a difference, back when I was swimming, there were a couple pools that were consistently 5-10% faster). In 4-6 weeks, do it again. Then we can talk. As to the efficiency of the coach/athlete relationship - Let me first qualify this by saying that when I was swimming I was fortunate enough to train under a gentleman who is arguably the greatest swimming coach that has ever been involved in the sport, so I never had to deal with this type of situation. That said, it ultimately comes down to the athlete; the responsibility for progress begins and ends there. The old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink," comes to mind. If the athlete is OK paying out however much money then, so be it. -- BUT -- In this case, it is hard to tell what is going on without accurate, quantifiable empirical evidence that is gathered properly. Just my two cents. Scott, from my perspective you are spot-on. I get a tremendous amount of personal attention from my coach because I listen and put in the work. I know that he has other athletes that pay more money than I do but do not get the same kind of attention because they don't do either. I know (as I am sure he does as well) that these clients aren't really trying to get faster, they just like having a coach because, well, they like just talking about having a coach, and maybe even b*tching on BT about it every now and again. Should my coach fire those athletes? Maybe, but I am glad he does not as they subsidize my work with him. The clients that my coach does fire are the ones that don't put in the work AND need a lot of attention, petting and "atta boys!" But there are a good number of coaches in town that do work with those clients, and they charge a good bit of money to do so. To these folks a coach is just another accessory.While it is not the kind of job I would want, I am cool with it. It takes all kinds, right? |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() TankBoy - 2013-01-10 7:19 AM Seriously. I mean Fred is swimming 14k a day right now. You need to tighten up... Good, I think this guy might move up to his age group next year? |
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![]() | ![]() TankBoy - 2013-01-10 6:38 AM Scott, from my perspective you are spot-on. I get a tremendous amount of personal attention from my coach because I listen and put in the work. I know that he has other athletes that pay more money than I do but do not get the same kind of attention because they don't do either. I know (as I am sure he does as well) that these clients aren't really trying to get faster, they just like having a coach because, well, they like just talking about having a coach, and maybe even b*tching on BT about it every now and again. Should my coach fire those athletes? Maybe, but I am glad he does not as they subsidize my work with him. The clients that my coach does fire are the ones that don't put in the work AND need a lot of attention, petting and "atta boys!" But there are a good number of coaches in town that do work with those clients, and they charge a good bit of money to do so. To these folks a coach is just another accessory.While it is not the kind of job I would want, I am cool with it. It takes all kinds, right? I'd agree with that, to a point. He's putting in what they put in. That's fine. I bet they are still improving or at least are already at a half decent point and are going to races fairly strong and can execute. Not everyone is going to be at the pointy end. If he is putting in effort and the student is doing crap all then yeah, I might not fire myself either, it is clearly not on the coach. But, if the coach is giving their all and the student is as well and things are not happening after a while no matter what the coach tries then I'd probably suggest trying a different coach. I might even recommend some that I trust. I am of course speaking generically and not specific to the one case we all know we are talking about. Cause I can pretty much see how that coach-student relationship would work based on all the advise we give and have ignored already. |
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![]() | ![]() Morning everyone. Today's Fink workout was 30 minutes of spinning at 100+ rpm. I get the theory of increasing cadence and efficiency but I am sort of wondering if this type of workout is the best use of my time. Any thoughts from.the cycling experts among us? |
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![]() | ![]() brigby1 - 2013-01-10 6:39 AM TankBoy - 2013-01-10 7:19 AM Seriously. I mean Fred is swimming 14k a day right now. You need to tighten up... Good, I think this guy might move up to his age group next year? Wow, I rarely put that kind of time in on the bike let alone the pool in one session |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brigby1 - 2013-01-10 8:35 AM ....Pretty sure fly is first (with back following) so people don't drown. I understand that conceptually, but I still do a pretty good job of drowning.... |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brigby1 - 2013-01-10 8:39 AM TankBoy - 2013-01-10 7:19 AM Seriously. I mean Fred is swimming 14k a day right now. You need to tighten up... Good, I think this guy might move up to his age group next year? I'm actually at a loss for words with that one - I mean, really...3 hours in the pool and "the time just flies by". Can...not...imagine. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brigby1 - 2013-01-10 8:39 AM TankBoy - 2013-01-10 7:19 AM Seriously. I mean Fred is swimming 14k a day right now. You need to tighten up... Good, I think this guy might move up to his age group next year? Fudge. That is 1:37 per 100y if my math is correct. At least he is done with his long swim for the year.... |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2013-01-10 9:46 AM brigby1 - 2013-01-10 8:39 AM TankBoy - 2013-01-10 7:19 AM Seriously. I mean Fred is swimming 14k a day right now. You need to tighten up... Good, I think this guy might move up to his age group next year? I'm actually at a loss for words with that one - I mean, really...3 hours in the pool and "the time just flies by". Can...not...imagine. Honestly, the way he broke it all down I think the time would fly by for me too. I would need someone to keep track of all that for me, especially something like #5, 8 and 9 |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bzgl40 - 2013-01-10 8:43 AM(Stuff snipped) ... If he is putting in effort and the student is doing crap all then yeah, I might not fire myself either, it is clearly not on the coach. But, if the coach is giving their all and the student is as well and things are not happening after a while no matter what the coach tries then I'd probably suggest trying a different coach. Agree. |
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![]() | ![]() Anyone else notice the days are getting a little longer? I need it to show up on the front end though for my morning runs. Laps around my hood are getting boring, even with the elk to play with |
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