Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed (Page 35)

Successful TT yesterday.  RR here.

Then capped it off with some mountain biking in the afternoon, and a BBQ in the evening.  Unfortunately while throwing around a football, I jammed my right middle finger and tore the extensor tendon that keeps the tip of your finger straight.  So basically I have to wear a splint for the next 6-8 weeks.  Pretty sure this won't impact my riding other than maybe not being able to shift as aggressively during a sprint or attack...but probably no more mountain biking as I can't properly grip the bars or the brake lever which isn't good for a mountain biking noob like myself.

It was a static photo.  I tried spinning for a few minutes beforehand to get comfortable in the position and tried to freeze my position, but I know its not perfect.

I have an Adamo Road saddle and its about 5 cm behind the BB.  I did move the seat up slightly and it feels pretty good.

Initial impression was that I couldn't hold power compared to my prior position, but I did a VO2 max ride tonight - 8x3 @ 110% with 2 minutes rest.  Quads were burning towards the end but I managed to hold aero for all of the intervals.  So maybe it was just in my head.

Next purchase is either the LG M2 tri jersey or the Castelli T1 Stealth.

95% for 90min - um, no.  Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but 2x20min at 95% is a pretty solid effort on it's own, so 95% seems like it's really stretching it.  Doing the math, I may be able to pull off 90% with where I am at the moment, but I would likely be shattered afterwards - and that would be a very big maybe..and as I sit and think about it some more, I would likely finish somewhere in the high 80's.

That's basically a 25 watt difference for me.  Low 80's (right around 80%) is where I'll target HIM, and low 90's would be pushing an Oly, but I might still be below 90% for that distance/duration.

Yeah, I'm guessing the 1:17 at 90-95% is likely going to have you a lot closer to the 90% than 95%.  95% for 77 minutes would be very close to an all out effort requiring a taper and race motivation.  Possible, but not very likely to happen within a normal training block unless you're FTP number is due to be bumped up.  

90% would still be very difficult considering it's just a training workout without race motivation...even if you were well rested going in.  80-85% seems like a more appropriate target for someone in the middle of their training plan and wants to ensure they can complete the workout without high chance of failure or risking high recovery costs that may impact other workouts.

So I'm not in the market for a new tri bike but stumbled on a deal at an LBS that I am seriously considering.

Its a 2013 Specialized Shiv Expert and is selling for about 40% off the MSRP price.

I just traded emails with the bike shop and they would include a free comprehensive fit with the bike, which is a $350 charge on their website. 

I'm currently riding a 2012 Felt B16 and really like it, and so does anyone know if the Shiv would be a significant improvement?  Based on a few reviews, they talk about the aero qualities of the Shiv but I've also read some pretty favourable reviews about the aerodynamics of the B16 as well.

I'd get a pre-fit measurement to make sure the geometry works for me, but based on what I've read the Shiv is better suited for my body type than the Felt (long legs with shorter torso).  The Felt's cockpit is pretty forgiving and so I made it work, but the overall geometry of the B16 is long a low and wasn't exactly ideal. 

I would end up swapping my Adamo saddle and race wheels, but all of the other components look to be an upgrade. 

Its a 10 speed and I believe that the 2014 was upgraded to 11 speed.  But my rear Flo 90 is a 10 speed and so I wouldn't need to upgrade my race wheels.

Its tempting, but not sure if I'd pull the trigger if it was only a marginal upgrade.

Does the LBS utilize a fit machine like a Retul or Guru?  If so, my suggestion would be this...

Make an appointment to pay for the $350 fit and get your ideal coordinates.  See if you can get there on your Felt and if you can, then you just got good ROI on $350.  

If your Felt can't get there, but the Shiv can...then is there a possibility that you buy the Shiv, set it up to those coordinates, and they still throw in the fit for free?

If your Felt can get "close", then it's just a matter of deciding whether or not buying the Shiv is worth it to get all the way there.

I don't think there is a big difference between the two bikes.  The biggest difference you'll see is if your fit will improve.

There was a pretty good thread in TT a few weeks ago where someone was asking about the time savings between his current bike (a Cervelo P2) and some other bike (super bike??  can't remember) and it basically came down to "does your current bike fit?"  If the answer is yes, then "have you done aero testing to get the most benefit out of it?"  I suspect the gains you'd see from going from your Felt to that Shiv may not be worth the money.

Now, it may be a different story if the Felt doesn't fit you and you are terribly uncomfortable and can't stay in aero....if, and only if, the Shiv provides a good fit for you (which you would only know by being fit before committing to the bike). 

Of course, I get the idea of wanting a new bike, but then it should be because you want a new bike and not because you think you're going to get some magical gains from it.

Good points Jason/Nicole.  I do recall the Cervelo/superbike thread and a few responses that there likely wouldn't be any drastic gains in speed.

As much as I like the Shiv, it likely wouldn't be a significant upgrade.

I get Jason's point that I probably should bite the bullet and get a proper fit done, but its one of those investments that I find hard to justify.

Despite the Felt geometry being a little less than ideal, my prior fit was quite comfortable.  For a late season Olympic last year, I was in aero basically the entire ride and managed decent power. 

I'm not sure the type of fit the LBS offers.  They are FIST certified but there isn't any reference to retul or guru on their website.  

The last fit I had done wasn't too expensive (around $150) but they only made a few minor changes to my position.  After that experience, I'd hate to now pay $300 to $400 to find out what I had done on my own was fine.  

Will definitely be doing some aero testing once the weather warms up (whenever that may be).  Its forecast to be below freezing this weekend!

Also, after all the recent discussion of shorter cranks, I am looking into how difficult it would be to swap the 175 mm cranks on my Power2Max to 165 mm.

Thanks Marc.  I do think my fit last year had room for improvement but overall wasn't too bad.  I was able to maintain aero for every race, although mostly Sprints with one Olympic. 

Based on data from a race last year, I recall that you estimated my CDA at around .27 based on Aerolab so there is room for improvement there and that's what I plan to work on this season.

First step was to drop the front bars and then work on getting comfortable in that adjustment over the next month or so.

I've also cleaned up the cockpit to move some things out of the wind.  I do have a torrhans bottle on the seat tube that I use for a flat kit and use an Xlab torpedo up front.  Also, looking at a few options for a sleeved tri jersey.

I've been reading the Platypus thread on ST and plan to do some aero testing when the weather warms up.  Hopefully that will shave a few points off of the CDA.

Will be buying a sleeved jersey shortly and just ordered 165 mm cranks to throw into the mix.

When it comes to aero testing, there is an outdoor high school track close by that is always empty on weekends.

Would that be a good place to test?  Its flat and no traffic or corners for braking.  4 or 5 laps on a windless day would get fairly decent data for each ride.

The platypus thread seemed to suggest that an outdoor track would work, but I couldn't find any discussion on the material of the track. 

I've only just started running on it when it has been below freezing and so if its the spongy track material then I suppose that might affect CRR.  But it wouldn't really matter in testing the aero benefit between various positions.  The actual CDA might not be reliable but at least I could see what worked.

Hi Mike - I'm looking into getting a sleeved jersey but would only do so if I could wear it during the swim.  I've looked at the Louis Garneau M2 and Castelli T1 Stealth and although they are supposed to be skin tight, I have read reviews that both are not too restricting and that you shouldn't have any problems for the swim.

I would think that you could deal with any wrinkles on the run up to T1... although there have been a few races where I haven't been thinking clearly until well into bike

Not sure which races you target, but just wanted to make sure you are aware that WTC races started to allow athletes to wear a short sleeved Tri suit during non wetsuit swims.  I think USAT races still won't allow short sleeves during non wetsuit swims though. I could be wrong. 

HS track?  Like a 400m track?  I, personally, would not ride my bike on that (for aero testing or any other purpose) regardless of whether it was empty or not.

When I was doing aero testing, I found roads that were relatively flat (okay, really flat....I live in Houston!), straight, and three miles (5km) long.  I'd get up to power, hit the lap button, go 3 miles, hit the lap button, and then coast (and recalibrate my PM), U-turn, and repeat.  After an out-and-back, I would change configuration and do the next run. 

I did aero testing of a Desoto ITU tri suit versus an M2 top (over the Desoto suit) and it was a saving of about two minutes over a HIM bike leg at my power.  It was a difference in cda of just over 0.01.

Some people will claim that for the top to be tight enough to provide an aero benefit that it will be too constricting  to swim well in, but I didn't notice any issues.  You could also leave it unzipped (partially or fully), or you could have it rolled down and just around your torso, and work it up while you're making your way through transition. 

As Jason noted, WTC non-wetsuit legal races are now allowing sleeves (to the elbows), but you'd want to confirm that it doesn't restrict your swimming.  That said, a two minute saving (for me) would have been worth a 45s longer transition if it had come to that.