SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 36)

Hey Lani, I am not that familiar with Fink's plan other than a lot of folks have enjoyed a good bit of success with it, so only knowing that I would say stick with the plan. The good thing about a (good) plan is that it thinks holistically. So the bike is not just about getting better on the bike, the run is not just about getting better on the run, etc. you will have a natural cadence in which you will ride and race, but cadence work (both high and overgear) work and condition different systems. I would want to know what you did yesterday, and what you are doing tomorrow? For instance, I might have a high cadence ride like that the day before I do an LT run set: it works your cardiovascular system but is a little easier on the legs, and it conditions your legs to turn over fast. Also, don't underestimate the mental training aspect to that kind of workout - I find it much "easier" mentally to grind through an overgear set than it would be to spin through a high cadence set for that long. It actually takes a lot of focus for me to do that. Lastly, I know I am about to start some artificially high cadence work. A couple of days ago I sort of blew a climbing FTP test. From looking at the data I overpaced the front end just a bit (probably due to the lack of any LT work for a good while) and then substituted torque for power when I tried to catch up, resulting in an abnormally low cadence and power output for the test (for me). So now I am going to spend some time climbing at certain power targets and a little higher cadence than normal, just to get back in the groove and get the "feel" for such efforts back. The short of it is: stick to the plan - it is the aggregate of the weeks of training, not one workout that is important - in a good plan they all work together to create a composite whole.

(edited for stupid ipad autocorrect)

Edited by TankBoy 2013-01-10 8:18 AM

I can see that too. It really does make a difference when there are things to break it up. I see it on the trainer or treadmill all the time too. Though not sure I'm quite ready to attempt this one just yet!

Well, I know that people have had success with Fink, and of course this is just one 30 minute workout that hopefully fits sensibly into a well-conceived plan.

That said, 30 minutes of high-cadence riding doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, especially if the goal is to raise cadence.  There's no compelling reason to think that higher is better.  If the goal is just to experiment with cadence, or to lock in some neuro-muscular adaptations that would translate to more normal cadence riding, then I could be on board with it, depending.

But, I'd also say that if you are going to do the plan, then trust the plan.  Once you start questioning it, you've opened the door to total annihilation of the plan.  Don't ask me how I know this.

Agree with Michael on the comments about cadence.  I'm not sure what the point of 30min at 100+ is, and would personally not do that workout without a good explanation.

As to makign changes to a plan, I again agree with Michael, but with the caveat that many of these plans are nto specific to you as an individual, and you really do know better than the plan allows for sometimes.  You do need to be willing to do certain workouts since they are part of the overall plan, but at the same time, if you keep it to a reasonable level you can make adjustments on the fly.

This is the thing with ART - it hurts like the dickens but it really, really does work. (I have been in tears during some sessions)

Yeah - about the foot. I have been struggling with a chronic foot issue - for the last two years, brought on by a stupid injury in my early twenties (many, many years ago) when my foot was run over by a car (oh - there is a long story there...but I'm trying to keep this tri-related). About two years ago after my second season of triathlon I started to ramp up my running and started getting pain in my right foot, below my ankle and towards the top of my foot. I blew the entire third season nursing the injury (through lots of rest, lots of biking and lots of swimming) and finally went to a PT late in the year. After unfreezing my ankle joint (I had unconsciously been holding my ankle steady to reduce the pain, thereby limiting the motion and making it so I couldn't really rotate my right ankle well at all), we figured out that my right cuboid bone (in the middle of the foot, towards the heel) would slip out of place (apparently a common injury in dancers...go figure). A solution is to tape a 1/4 inch thick 1 inch square pad onto the bone, so when the foot is striking instead of falling all the way down, the downward motion is stopped by the pad (I am sure all you medical types are cringing at my descriptions...sorry about that). I did that for a year, which seemed to help but not entirely fix the problem. I went back to the PT and he prescribed hip and core exercises in addition to the pad which is where I am now.

Not running at all makes me nutsy. And doesn't really help with the "injury" since it comes right back once I start to exceed 25 or so miles a week. Right now, the pain is completely tolerable and seems to be improved by the hip/core exercises and the changing of my strike (I noticed that I was striking kind of pigeon-toed with my right foot one day when I happened to be running on a treadmill in front of a mirror). I know - the logical side of my brain says, "Well - stop running," but I'm not willing to do that (yet). Have any of you suffered from a chronic injury? How do you deal with the mental aspect of it? I am SURE this was/is part of the mojo-declination I have been suffering.

Averaged 261W for 20min. this morning.  Just a 4W improvement from July.  I was initially disappointed, but after reconsidering how hard and how often I've been riding the past 4-5 months, I'll take it.  I would really like to see that up near 270 over the next ten weeks.

Considering how much riding you were saying you've been doing, I think you should aim for more than a 3% improvement over the next 2.5 months. 

Yep, for about two years.  Both feet have pretty severe metatarsalgia.  I have virtually no fat pad on the bottom of my feet (of all places) and it feels like I'm just walking on the bone.  I've got wicked tight Achilles and my hip flexors "don't fire."  Apparently, the bio-mechanics of my feet are just jacked up. 

Had a coming to jesus with the chiro today, and he recommended several stretches and strengthening exercises.  This is what I really wanted instead of more laser/gastron treatments - I've had enough of those.  He also recommended acupunture at $70/session and his $850 orthotics to replace my $500 orthotics.  He did say that he definitely thought I was in the 8-10% of people that really need orthotics and that trying to go minimalist/neutral (that he does often advocate) was definitely not for me - so mark that one off the list.  I going to try the stretches/exercises for a month or so and see where that gets me.

It's quit maddening to have your feet hurt all the time.  Actually running doesn't really bother me except for the occasional pain, it's the just walking around and sitting with pain that drives me crazy.  But, I do think my running is getting faster and stronger, so that's nice.

I agree with others on changing the plans. Be careful if you do. In this case, however, I'm not fully seeing the value in the workout. Not in doing that much of it, and also with the amount of biking that has been done, if your logs are up to date. I just don't see that much where anything not working on your power development is going to be more helpful than that.

I'm also of the thought that cadence should be self-selected, but one should be able to work at a bigger range than their normal average for at least a few minutes at a time to handle various situations or terrain. I generally like being able to handle ~60 up to maybe 110-120, though the majority will be in the 80's and maybe 70's if it's more hilly.

This sounds a bit like a recovery ride, but effort level wasn't mentioned and the workload is rather low to warrant one. Triathletes generally don't really need them.

Riding has really fallen off over the past few months, and the holidays didn't help.  I'm going to get back on it, see how the power feels during the computrainer sessions and evaluate from there.  270+ would be really nice.  My statement above should have probably been "how not hard" and "how not often."  I've felt really good on weekly computrainer classes, and been gradually bumping my number up, but haven't really been putting in the necessary work otherwise to see good improvements.  Need to get back on the saddle.  I think that's a pun.

I'm not a power expert, but that doesn't sound like a bad number for early January, when all of your hard training is ahead of you, vs. the middle of the race season last year when theoretically you are in or near peak shape.

Okay, so it's official....I'm going in for knee surgery.  Assuming the MRI's aren't hiding anything, he's mostly going in there to just clean it up.

I was really hesitant and basically exhausted all of my options before committing to surgery, but I came to the realization that I'm not ready to settle this being "the new 100%".

I'm hoping the recovery will be relatively quick, given that we aren't doing major reconstruction of anything.  Anyone have experience with surgery (knee or otherwise) like this?

I've got two different foot issues, both in the same foot.  One is on my big toe and the other on the side of my foot.  Like you I can run just fine.  But when I sit down for a period of time and get up it takes a while before I can walk normal.  Once I get going through I'm ok more or less

Bummer.  I've not had knee surgery but I have had friends who have and theirs went really well.  Just do the PT assigned and have some patience coming back.  Don't be an overachiever

Good point.  Just a 2013 baseline to improve upon.

I think there was actually a discussion on BT once about those specific Fink workouts (or maybe it was just in our little IM Melbourne group since most of us were doing Iron Fit plans). Anyway, most of us didn't do them as prescribed (which is much like a recovery workout, Z1 at high cadence), but used the time to bang out some hard stuff.

My personal thought on them is that yes, there's a better use for your time, but if you never actually pedal at different cadences (high OR lower), they (as others said) are a beneficial tool to have, to have your muscles know how to respond and work at different cadences.

I'm actually down from July, but still ahead of this point last year. Just taking the lessons and going from here with it to get where I can.

Same here.  I'm probably 5-10 watts ahead of where I was at this point last year, but I'm about 15-25 watts lower than where I was in mid August. 

Did I mention I was swimming in the evening...at an outdoor pool...75 degree air temp and 80 degree water temp.  I think the stars were out too...

I just don't have a come back for that.

LOL...just list all the races you can do that are within driving distance or don't require a 3000+ mile airfare. 

Alright, to put a happy face on it, I'm 50 watts ahead of where I was during last year's test at my first computrainer class.  I certainly had plenty of room for improvement, but I like this comparisson better.  2.4W/kg (Jan. 2012) to 3.38W/kg (Jan. 2013, includes a 25lb weight loss).

Nice!