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Graniteman - Racing and religion (Page 4)
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 2010-07-13 8:11 PM in reply to: #2977000 |
Pro  4189    Pittsburgh, my heart is in Glasgow |  Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religionSide note: The "under God" part of the pledge was actually the result of the work of a Scotsman (and a fellow Glasgow alumnus). As a Catholic Christian, I tend to not participate in these things when they occur at races (and they have at several I've been too). I find a quiet space for myself and say my own prayers for myself and for those around me. I think that has to do with the "Catholic" culture...the big group prayer/speaking outloud thing is uncomfortable for me, as I can imagine it would be for those who were not Christian. |
| 2010-07-13 9:44 PM in reply to: #2978854 |
Extreme Veteran 745 Colo Springs, CO | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion Need2Breathe - 2010-07-13 5:35 PM lodewey - 2010-07-13 6:56 AM And I firmly believe that just because we cannot yet explain everything in nature, that does not mean there must be a supernatural explanation. We just haven't found the explanation yet. I understand your point here but what if you firmly believe that you have found the supernatural? Experienced it, seen the miraculous. What if a believer's faith isn't just simple-minded blind faith? There are a lot of very intelligent and educated people walking around today that can look you in the eye with all certainty and tell you that a supernatural God exists as a result of a personal experience. But none of them can give me actual PROOF of God's existence. And I actually believe that what they consider "proof" is easily explain through psychology (we look for things which tend to support our suppositions, and we tend to ignore all evidence which doesn't. There's a name for it, but I just finished a race and don't feel like looking it up.) And no, I cannot give proof that god doesn't exist, since it is logically impossible to prove a negative. Besides, if your god is omnipotent, it's really his doing that I don't believe. Maybe I'm part of his plan...  |
| 2010-07-13 9:54 PM in reply to: #2978687 |
Extreme Veteran 745 Colo Springs, CO | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion gearboy - 2010-07-13 3:34 PM Goosedog - 2010-07-13 12:41 PM beckjon - 2010-07-13 12:15 PM Assuming you believed in an all powerful God who could intervene in a situation, wouldn't be irresponsible not to pray for safety for everyone involved? Right before the race seems like a great time to pray, and I don't see the harm in letting others know you're concerned about them, especially if it only takes 30 seconds. Now, if this is really the concern, couldn't just one person take care of this silently? Recently in the local paper there were two stories on the front page: In the one, a guy was driving his car when a tree limb that had become rotten fell out of a tree, and killed him. His passenger was spared. If he had been there even 1-2 seconds sooner or later he would have lived. They said it was "an act of God". In the other, a guy who runs a small produce stand was away from the stand (which he apparently never does) getting some test done. While he was away, a freak windstorm destroyed his stand, and would have killed him if he was there. He said it was "Divine intervention" that he lived. What I read was "God hates us! God loves us!". I don't think we can really be sitting around asking God to do things one way or another. While I am not a believer now, even when I was young, I was always taught that asking God to intervene is pretty much the height of hubris. The proper place for prayers is to thank and adore God, not ask for personal intercession. If god is omniscient, he knows what's going to happen, he knows what you're going to pray for, etc. If he is omnipotent, he has the ability to stop the bad stuff from happening. Heck, I believe (in Christianity) he actually says that us humans are supposed to help others if we see they need it and we are able to, even if it is not something we want to do (remember the parable of the good samaritan?) But yet god, who knows bad stuff will happen, and has the power to do something, and expects humans to act that way, this god doesn't have to do anything? He can just sit back and let bad stuff happen and say "it's all part of my plan?" Even worse, he takes one of his loyal subjects and makes a bet with the devil and puts him through all sorts of crap, just to prove a point? (The story of Job.) No thanks, even if I believed in god, I would reject such a hypocritical one. There is also that whole issue of free will. Well, unless you are a deist. I am guessing that most religious people here are theists, since that is the way most major religions teach these days. And really, if you were a deist, it wouldn't make sense to pray either. I'm not some atheist that has never thought about this. I was raised in a very religious family. And I just don't believe any of it. And as for the person that earlier mentioned that 97% of the population believes (I question that figure , but it's not important) -- at one time, the vast majority of the population believed the earth was flat. |
| 2010-07-13 10:50 PM in reply to: #2977577 |
Extreme Veteran 590 | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion Goosedog - 2010-07-13 10:23 AM A detailed discussion of why Duke basketball sucks isn't going to hurt anyone (and is absolutely true), but some people would think it is inappropriate before a race. Ha! Not those that are happy that order has been restored to the ACC. Go Blue Devils!  |
| 2010-07-13 10:56 PM in reply to: #2977000 |
| Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion No way I am reading thru this entire thread. But the RD of Wildflower in California is born again (or a devout christian), who leads a morning prayer before the race. Wildflower is known as the Woodstock of triathlon - camping, naked coed run, lots of post race beer, used to have naked aid stations. All of that made the morning prayer palatable  No big whoop. just do your own thing. If it bugs you, don't do that race |
| 2010-07-13 11:13 PM in reply to: #2977000 |
Champion 5522 Frisco, TX | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion Sighhhhhhh...... Too many people get worked up over being "disrespected" if you don't like it, don't support it with your dollars again. The simple truth is that everything is not about you and your feelings.... toughen up, suck it up, whatever you want to call it but get over it... ETA - for those that demand proof of God - you are missing the whole point of the exercise of faith... Edited by ashort33 2010-07-13 11:16 PM |
| 2010-07-13 11:29 PM in reply to: #2977000 |
Veteran 217 | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion I simply just pray for everyone! The one thing you can not keep me from doing is praying! It is my right as an American! |
| 2010-07-13 11:34 PM in reply to: #2979265 |
Elite 4547 | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion ashort33 - 2010-07-14 12:13 AM Sighhhhhhh...... Too many people get worked up over being "disrespected" if you don't like it, don't support it with your dollars again. The simple truth is that everything is not about you and your feelings.... toughen up, suck it up, whatever you want to call it but get over it... ETA - for those that demand proof of God - you are missing the whole point of the exercise of faith... Sighs disappoint me. If I was having a friendly discussion and somebody sighed when I made a point I'd be sad...just sayin'. I do agree that folks get a bit too worked up over this stuff. As long as folks aren't putting those of other faiths or those without faiths down, I don't see a problem with it at all. ...and those that demand proof of God, I respect their attempts. Heck, isn't that better than dismissing the possibility outright? I have my own personal belief in an eternal life...it doesn't involve a higher power that requires me to do anything in its honor ...but I do respect the beliefs of those around me. Their beliefs are no more valid than mine and that brings me comfort. |
| 2010-07-13 11:58 PM in reply to: #2979286 |
Champion 5522 Frisco, TX | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion ChineseDemocracy - 2010-07-13 11:34 PM ashort33 - 2010-07-14 12:13 AM Sighhhhhhh...... Too many people get worked up over being "disrespected" if you don't like it, don't support it with your dollars again. The simple truth is that everything is not about you and your feelings.... toughen up, suck it up, whatever you want to call it but get over it... ETA - for those that demand proof of God - you are missing the whole point of the exercise of faith... Sighs disappoint me. If I was having a friendly discussion and somebody sighed when I made a point I'd be sad...just sayin'. I do agree that folks get a bit too worked up over this stuff. As long as folks aren't putting those of other faiths or those without faiths down, I don't see a problem with it at all. ...and those that demand proof of God, I respect their attempts. Heck, isn't that better than dismissing the possibility outright? I have my own personal belief in an eternal life...it doesn't involve a higher power that requires me to do anything in its honor ...but I do respect the beliefs of those around me. Their beliefs are no more valid than mine and that brings me comfort. Sorry to disappoint you |
| 2010-07-14 4:37 AM in reply to: #2977337 |
Veteran 136 Minnesota | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion mrbbrad - 2010-07-13 8:57 PM I'm jumping on the hijack. When I read the OP, the comment that "I'm not Christian so I just began making my way to the start" stuck out to me. I wondered what if it was a non-Christian prayer? Would he have stayed? I would have. To answer your question, no I wouldn't have. Not even if the prayer aligned with everything I believe in my heart, because my beliefs are not for everyone else to share in, but for myself. I did my own thinking as I walked to the start. I just think religion is too personal for each individual to be broadcasting it indiscriminately over everyone with no warning and require them to be there to participate in a public event. I think I felt disrespected because they had not concluded the pre race meeting yet. If they had finished the meeting, then it would be just like any other race I've been to here where people pray or don't pray for themselves. It also feels dishonest just pretending to pray with everyone else and letting them believe (if in fact they are paying attention to me at all, I hope they are not) that I agree with what is said. Being ambushed like that, I quietly moved away from the group and went on with my race. I didn't disturb their prayer, and it didn't overly disturb me, but I don't think I'll be racing that one next year. My other question was: should race directors overtly state if there will be a heavy denominational (of any kind) theme to any race? I think it would be nice to know before I pay whether a prayer will be required, or simply offered. |
| 2010-07-14 4:56 AM in reply to: #2978228 |
Veteran 136 Minnesota | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion Tripolar - 2010-07-14 1:46 AM At any public event, I always try to be respectful to those around me, so I would definitely have stayed and bowed my head. Of course, the fact that I was raised Lutheran makes it a bit easier to be respectful during a Christian prayer, but I would do the same if the prayer/ritual had been Hindu or Buddhist, or whatever. (Satanic would be pushing it...) But this thread makes me think I should create a race and dedicate it to the Flying Spaghetti Monster! RAmen! RAmen! GREAT IDEA! Racers could recieve a registration discount if they bring noodles or pasta sauce to donate which could be taken to the nearest food shelf! |
| 2010-07-14 8:06 AM in reply to: #2979370 |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion MADFOXZZ75 - 2010-07-14 5:37 AM mrbbrad - 2010-07-13 8:57 PM I'm jumping on the hijack. When I read the OP, the comment that "I'm not Christian so I just began making my way to the start" stuck out to me. I wondered what if it was a non-Christian prayer? Would he have stayed? I would have. To answer your question, no I wouldn't have. Not even if the prayer aligned with everything I believe in my heart, because my beliefs are not for everyone else to share in, but for myself. I did my own thinking as I walked to the start. I just think religion is too personal for each individual to be broadcasting it indiscriminately over everyone with no warning and require them to be there to participate in a public event. I think I felt disrespected because they had not concluded the pre race meeting yet. If they had finished the meeting, then it would be just like any other race I've been to here where people pray or don't pray for themselves. It also feels dishonest just pretending to pray with everyone else and letting them believe (if in fact they are paying attention to me at all, I hope they are not) that I agree with what is said. Being ambushed like that, I quietly moved away from the group and went on with my race. I didn't disturb their prayer, and it didn't overly disturb me, but I don't think I'll be racing that one next year. My other question was: should race directors overtly state if there will be a heavy denominational (of any kind) theme to any race? I think it would be nice to know before I pay whether a prayer will be required, or simply offered. What is the difference between required and offered? If you and others walked away quietly, why do you feel you were required to pray? |
| 2010-07-14 8:31 AM in reply to: #2977000 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion Had the RD taken the opportunity to extoll the virtues of [whatever political party you don't align yourself with; or in my case, either] would those that have be so willing to say, "Oh, don't worry about it," "it's not hurting anyone" or "don't support it with your dollars" or would you be more inclined to say it was a bit odd and inappropriate at a race? Edited by Goosedog 2010-07-14 8:32 AM |
| 2010-07-14 10:36 AM in reply to: #2979370 |
Champion 6962 Atlanta, Ga | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion MADFOXZZ75 - 2010-07-14 5:37 AM My other question was: should race directors overtly state if there will be a heavy denominational (of any kind) theme to any race? I think it would be nice to know before I pay whether a prayer will be required, or simply offered. I would be no means call a 30 second prayer/devotional a heavy denominational theme. Now, if all the aid stations were to mimic the stations of the cross or something to that matter...you'd probably know that by reviewing the race literature. WORSE CASE scenario: One gets truly offended for 30 seconds and mentions to the RD after the race why they will not be attending their races anymore. Everyone walks away more informed. I'm really not seeing a huge issue with the worse case scenario above... |
| 2010-07-14 10:44 AM in reply to: #2980170 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion Marvarnett - 2010-07-14 11:36 AM Now, if all the aid stations were to mimic the stations of the cross or something to that matter.... . . . or the water turned to wine. Edited by Goosedog 2010-07-14 10:45 AM |
| 2010-07-14 10:51 AM in reply to: #2979661 |
Elite 2998 Fishers, Indiana | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion Goosedog - 2010-07-14 8:31 AM Had the RD taken the opportunity to extoll the virtues of [whatever political party you don't align yourself with; or in my case, either] would those that have be so willing to say, "Oh, don't worry about it," "it's not hurting anyone" or "don't support it with your dollars" or would you be more inclined to say it was a bit odd and inappropriate at a race? It is a privately owned event. They can extol whatever virtues they want to extol...and I can chose whether to throw my dollars at it again and pass along what I learned to others as well. No different than going to a movie and walking out if it sucks/offends you/etc. and then telling others about it, writing a review, mentioning it in your race report, etc. Odd, sure, inappropriate, maybe--but again, privately owned, privately operated, my choice to be there or to leave, my choice to come back in the future. So long as it's not something inciting violence (death to black people! death to white people! crap like that) or akin to yelling "fire" in a theater, it's legal. What about spectators and other racers out there racing for their causes. What if they have a jersey with a scripture or a cross on it, or a pentagram, or such and you get stuck behind them on the bike or the run? What if a family member is holding signs with curse words or Biblical scriptures? What if they are wearing a DNC or RNC emblazoned jersey? What if someone has put political campaign signs up on the course (not the race director) (and I have seen this)? What if someone is wearing a tiny speedo where you see far more than you want to? All of these things and more are things that one could be exposed to at a triathlon and it be considered inappropriate/odd/offensive to someone. Many of you don't view religion as much of importance to things, so why should you look at those moments as any more odd than any of these things above? There are lots of "what ifs" and lots of things that might fit "someone's" definition of inappropriate or odd. At a race, I put on my blinders, I get in race mentality, and I focus on my race. So long as it's not someone trying to hinder my capability of racing, I don't care. If it is something that goes beyond my tolerance level, I will not be there again. I will write about it in my race report for others to see, and if it's truly within my definition of "bad" I'll write the race director. |
| 2010-07-14 11:01 AM in reply to: #2979599 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion meherczeg - 2010-07-14 8:06 AM What is the difference between required and offered? If you and others walked away quietly, why do you feel you were required to pray? I think the difference is that, while it isn’t required, exactly, the “default” is participation. If you choose not to participate, you have to either walk away or stand there and essentially pretend to be participating in a ritual in which you don’t believe. I think a better choice would have been for the RD to say, “Ok, that’s the end of the mandatory stuff. Pastor Smith is going to lead a short blessing in a minute here, if you’d like to join us. Good luck to everyone.” People who wanted to hang around could do so, and people who didn’t, whether because for religious reasons or simply because they wanted an extra couple of minutes to set up, could walk away without feeling uncomfortable. By itself, it wouldn’t be a reason to do or not do a race. I’ve been in similar situations lots of times. I’d probably just stand there, although it would be a little uncomfortable for me. I would personally feel as though I was being disrespectful if I walked away in the middle of a prayer, though that’s just me. |
| 2010-07-14 11:01 AM in reply to: #2979265 |
Elite 3371 | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion ashort33 - 2010-07-14 12:13 AM Sighhhhhhh...... Too many people get worked up over being "disrespected" if you don't like it, don't support it with your dollars again. The simple truth is that everything is not about you and your feelings.... toughen up, suck it up, whatever you want to call it but get over it... ETA - for those that demand proof of God - you are missing the whole point of the exercise of faith... I don't "miss the point". The "point" is irrational (to me). That said, I completely respect anyone's belief. I don't agree, but thats ok. I stay for the prayer and then race. I do it out of respect, and feel no disrespect. Not a big deal. |
| 2010-07-14 11:04 AM in reply to: #2977674 |
Elite 2733 Venture Industries, | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion Marvarnett - 2010-07-13 11:52 AM Aarondb4 - 2010-07-13 11:46 AM One only needs to look at the heads side of a quarter or to recite the pledge of allegiance to our flag to understand that our country was founded on a belief in a Christian God. So yes, if there is a prayer, some might not appreciate it, but we can all appreciate that our founding fathers appreciated it and thus we should be able to find some respect for it. Our currency does not say "In Karma We Trust" nor does the pledge include any wording about "One Nation under Buddha". So as Mike said... When in Rome... Unless our founding fathers were around in 1864, then I would say your 'argument' bears no merit. The first instance of "In God we Trust" was on the 1864 two-cent coin. And they certainly were not around for McCarthyism in 1954 where they added "Under God" to the pledge. But who am I to confuse these things with facts. Our Founding Fathers were religious, not necessarily Christian. I hate this argument. The "Our founding fathers were religious, not necessarily Christian" This is such a twisting of fact it is rediculous. Which "Founding Fathers" are you referring to? Jefferson? Franklin? William Whipple? William Ellery? John Penn? I know maybe John Hart or Thomas Stone.. oh wait you're refering to Edmund Randolf or maybe John Mercer. Which of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, some, all, most? Which of the 39 signers of the Constituion, some, all, most? What about the individiuals that refused to sign the Constitution, or those that didn't sign because of other reasons? Are they all religious but not christian? Are they all Christian? Are they all diests? The FACT, and it is undeniable, and it is the ONLY FACT about this issue, is that the "Founding Fathers" were a diverse group of men, from diverse backgrounds. Some were "religious", some were not "religious", some were devote Christians, some where not. They held diverse views on all issues. To argue that there was a consensus on any issue is to ignore history. There wasn't even a consensus on the strenght of the federal government they were forming, so why do you think there was a consensus on something as personal as religion, God, and Christianity? To argue that "THE founding fathers' were, as a group, either Christian or not Christian is a serious twisting of historical fact to support a given agenda. The only fact we can assertain from the Founding Fathers and religion and Christianity in particular, is that their beliefs represented a wide and varied view of both religion and Christianity, and this view was probably an accurate reflection of the varied view of the populace in general. Typically in these arguments either for or against the idea of Religion or Christianity of the founding fathers each side points to only the "founding fathers" who support their contention and ignores those that don't. THERE IS NOT A CONSENSUS amoung the "founding fathers" on religion or Christianity, to assert otherwise is to ignore true historical facts. (The individual who was the first signator of the Bill of Rights was a Protestant Reverand and Congressman) |
| 2010-07-14 12:24 PM in reply to: #2980228 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion TexasMPGal - 2010-07-14 11:51 AM Odd, sure, inappropriate, maybe--but again, privately owned, privately operated, my choice to be there or to leave, my choice to come back in the future. So long as it's not something inciting violence (death to black people! death to white people! crap like that) or akin to yelling "fire" in a theater, it's legal. I don't believe anyone has said it is illegal or even should be prohibited. If you re-read the OP, it was a pretty benign question and statement of opinion. You know, kind of like "telling others about it, writing a review, mentioning it in your race report, etc." Edited by Goosedog 2010-07-14 12:28 PM |
| 2010-07-14 4:50 PM in reply to: #2979377 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion MADFOXZZ75 - 2010-07-14 4:56 AM Tripolar - 2010-07-14 1:46 AM At any public event, I always try to be respectful to those around me, so I would definitely have stayed and bowed my head. Of course, the fact that I was raised Lutheran makes it a bit easier to be respectful during a Christian prayer, but I would do the same if the prayer/ritual had been Hindu or Buddhist, or whatever. (Satanic would be pushing it...) But this thread makes me think I should create a race and dedicate it to the Flying Spaghetti Monster! RAmen!
I don't care where in the world you make this race, I will register! Please make it mandatory to race as a pirate... RAmen! Edited by AndrewMT 2010-07-14 5:00 PM |
| 2010-07-14 4:52 PM in reply to: #2981502 |
Pro 3932 Irvine, California | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion AndrewMT - 2010-07-14 2:50 PM MADFOXZZ75 - 2010-07-14 4:56 AM Tripolar - 2010-07-14 1:46 AM At any public event, I always try to be respectful to those around me, so I would definitely have stayed and bowed my head. Of course, the fact that I was raised Lutheran makes it a bit easier to be respectful during a Christian prayer, but I would do the same if the prayer/ritual had been Hindu or Buddhist, or whatever. (Satanic would be pushing it...) But this thread makes me think I should create a race and dedicate it to the Flying Spaghetti Monster! RAmen! I don't care where in the world you make this race, I will register! Please make it mandatory to race as a pirate... RAmen! Brilliant! And of course, the post-race area would feature a beer volcano.... |
| 2010-07-14 6:37 PM in reply to: #2980571 |
Elite 2998 Fishers, Indiana | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion Goosedog - 2010-07-14 12:24 PM TexasMPGal - 2010-07-14 11:51 AM Odd, sure, inappropriate, maybe--but again, privately owned, privately operated, my choice to be there or to leave, my choice to come back in the future. So long as it's not something inciting violence (death to black people! death to white people! crap like that) or akin to yelling "fire" in a theater, it's legal. I don't believe anyone has said it is illegal or even should be prohibited. If you re-read the OP, it was a pretty benign question and statement of opinion. You know, kind of like "telling others about it, writing a review, mentioning it in your race report, etc." I'm not saying that anyone said it was illegal or should, what I'm saying is that because it is legal, and it is part of how America works, that I'm fine with anyone espousing whatever views they want at a privatized event. The OP and several of the following posts were trying to put more onus on the RD to be more "respectful" or inclusive or leaving it out. What I'm simply saying in response to the if it was something other than "Christian" or even religious views, would I be okay with it. And the answer is YES and if I don't like it, like the OP disliked what he saw at the race, I'd do what you quoted me on up there. I'm not lambasting anyone for saying they don't agree with religion and am fine with how he's expressed his views. But the question was to the population whether we thought it was appropriate for an RD to do this, and I'm saying it's appropriate for the RD to do whatever he/she wants to do (legally of course) as it's a privately owned event. |
| 2010-07-14 6:50 PM in reply to: #2981663 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion TexasMPGal - 2010-07-14 6:37 PM Goosedog - 2010-07-14 12:24 PM TexasMPGal - 2010-07-14 11:51 AM Odd, sure, inappropriate, maybe--but again, privately owned, privately operated, my choice to be there or to leave, my choice to come back in the future. So long as it's not something inciting violence (death to black people! death to white people! crap like that) or akin to yelling "fire" in a theater, it's legal. I don't believe anyone has said it is illegal or even should be prohibited. If you re-read the OP, it was a pretty benign question and statement of opinion. You know, kind of like "telling others about it, writing a review, mentioning it in your race report, etc." I'm not saying that anyone said it was illegal or should, what I'm saying is that because it is legal, and it is part of how America works, that I'm fine with anyone espousing whatever views they want at a privatized event. The OP and several of the following posts were trying to put more onus on the RD to be more "respectful" or inclusive or leaving it out. What I'm simply saying in response to the if it was something other than "Christian" or even religious views, would I be okay with it. And the answer is YES and if I don't like it, like the OP disliked what he saw at the race, I'd do what you quoted me on up there. I'm not lambasting anyone for saying they don't agree with religion and am fine with how he's expressed his views. But the question was to the population whether we thought it was appropriate for an RD to do this, and I'm saying it's appropriate for the RD to do whatever he/she wants to do (legally of course) as it's a privately owned event. Normally I've very intolerant of religion, but I have to agree with Brittany on this one. Private event, so they can do it if they want. I wouldn't spend my money on a race by that organization again, but that's about the only means to make your voice known in that situation. I do think there was nothing wrong with the OP walking away once the praying started, which to me is no less rude than having a prayer in the first place. There is a clear line between this and public events. If a single dime of my tax money has gone toward supporting the event, that's when it's time to get the religious drivel out. |
| 2010-07-14 7:16 PM in reply to: #2977000 |
Expert 684 Bend, OR | Subject: RE: Graniteman - Racing and religion First off, wow at this thread. Secondly, even a bigger wow that I just read through the entire thing. I would say that you were not being disrespectful for walking away. (And I'm saying this as a Christian... though a liberal one.) If you didn't want to participate in the prayer, then quietly walk away. Does anyone think that's a big deal? That being said, I don't think its really a big deal that quick prayer was said. It likely was for the safety of all the participates. Although I think it would have been polite of the RD to say that they were going to say a quick prayer and that the race meeting for the general racers was officially over. Question for the Christians on here: Most of you have defended this action, but if the same exact thing happened but the RD prayed explicitly to Allah would you feel the same way? The reason I ask is that I get annoyed at people who so vehemently support phrases "In God We Trust" & "One nation under God" but would be equally opposed to it if it replaced God with Allah. |
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