Does BT need a new forum? (Page 4)

I read a lot of the replies (not all).   I personally like the initial thought cited by Experior.  When I'm glancing titles, I often only glance at the first page (maybe second) of a forum.  Once something gets buried to the second or third page, it gets a lot less traffic.  I think this idea would keep more subjects in the forefront for longer.  I do think that serious training questions would be better served if they were separated from general chat.

But with that said, I'm also fine with it as its.

I agree with Fred as well.  Over the past two years I've run a mentor and have been privileged to be able to connect with a fantastic group of people including a core group that has remained the same over 4 mentor cycles. 

We discuss everything in our group and, yes, it includes some ribbing, rash talk and differences of opinion but it is all within the context of a supportive environment.  In addition I was lucky enough to have "guest appearances" by several BT members who would chime in from time-to-time on topics they were knowledgable about (In fact BryanCD was regular contributor to my group.  While I did not always agree with him, his voice was always worth listening to and I miss his contributions). 

Like Fred, I fear that if the mentor group system is changed, it will adversely impact the dynamic.  I see no issue with re-opening the mentor groups more frequently but I don't know that expanding the mentor groups too much will simply cause them to devolve the way the Tri Talk forum has.

How is clicking through multiple forums different from clicking through multiple pages of a single forum?

I see alot of "BT doesn't have the same feel today that it did 'X' number of years ago."

As a short time BT'er and long time Triathlon'er I can tell you that triathlon doesn't have the same feel as it did when I started either.  It is what it is.  Compared to most forums this one is very tame, and very informative.

I don't doubt it doesn't have the same feel to the longtimers, then again, long sideburns and bell-bottom jeans don't have the same feel to me as they used to either.....just saying.

couldn't agree with you and fred more.

My understanding of Ron's suggestion (maybe more from a private interaction I had with him rather than the post here) was that the idea was not to simply make them bigger -- the size is pretty much controlled by the mentors anyway (if you want to have one with 50 people in it, you could do so) -- but rather to use that mechanism in some additional new way (while not, I presume, eliminating the mentor groups themselves).  I don't know exactly how that would go, but I could see it maybe working.

Just to throw in my $.02 as a MOP type person who has been around here for a couple of years.  My own "priorities" or "value" is training log, mentor group, and then boards.  Especially when I'm busy, I often never get to the boards, even though I enjoy the information and sometimes even the banter.  As someone who does most training solo, the community aspect of the mentor boards is an added benefit.  I imagine those who check out and post on the main boards often feel the same way about those boards, but there is a more supportive atmosphere in the mentoring groups.

I'll add one more thought to the discussion and that is that I'd love to see an additional type of "mentoring" group (mutual support groups?  training groups?) where we make better use of geographic proximity.  It almost happens sometimes in the state groups / race groups, but not quite. 

Stu

+1

And I fully understand how some "long - timers" wish it was "how it used to be".  I feel that way about triathlon in general.  But it's not going to be.

I'm not going to take the time.....but I bet if I went back page by page I wouldn't find much different than the "snapshot" you feel I took.  I think, as someone else posted, it's more about "feelings" than content.

I am in that minority.

I do think some changes in response to growing pains are in order. I'm just having a tough time wrapping my head around WHAT should change, HOW, and WHY (what the desired result is).

I should probably go back through this thread (though I've read each response several times now, all the pages), but if I'm not mistaken, the change-desiring minority is made up of exactly the type of experienced and knowledgeable posters we want to retain.

What about the Iron Distance Forum thats already here? In my opinion thats the forum for more serious discussions regarding racing/training. But maybe not. I think there are too many separate forums now.

Forgive me, I haven't read every response to this post, but I have skimmed through and see lots of good points. I do find myself looking at many posts and saying to myself, "Dude should've totally posted that in Gear Questions & Reviews," or "That post belongs in Tri'ing for Weight Loss." 

Is is annoying? Maybe MAYBE slightly, but nothing I can't get over. I think over categorizing would backfire, not only making the site less user-friendly, but because the same thing would always happen - someone's always going to post something in Triathlon Talk that might more specifically fit into a subcategory. No matter how you splice up Tri Talk, there will still be posts about tattoos, which bike, nutrition, specific race info, etc. in any forum about triathlons as a whole. 

If BT were to improve anything, perhaps a really snappy search function and filter would help navigate through the Tri Talk sea of posts. 

I've only been here two years, but share some of the same opinions as the change folks.  While I fully appreciate and understand that this is indeed beginnertriathlete.com, some of my frustration comes from the fact that the vigorous guarding of this safe place for beginners may come at the expense of allowing for a full and frank discussion by more experienced, faster athletes (this would not be me).  The most vivid example of this was a thread where someone was lamenting a relatively fast run time, but it wasn't fast enough to win.  Disregarding the understandable "I wish I could run that slow," it was almost as if the posters were trying to chase away the fast guy who just wanted to get faster.  You see this crop up occasionally and I fear it creates a less-than-welcoming environment for the type of athlete that may have a lot to share, and learn, here.

I think a balance should be struck that not only welcomes the newest, least knowledgeable athlete but also experienced, faster athletes.  If the culture becomes such that the retention and attraction of both types were equally important, you might see some of the later folks stick around.  I know for sure that I skim threads for posts by certain posters that I have come to learn are knowledgeable.  It seems like there are fewer of those than a year or so ago.  But, maybe it just goes in cycles.

ETA: I vote for less forums, not more.

I know I've just jumped into this conversation, and I'm a relatively light poster, but I'm not sure that separating Tri Talk as you describe would be a good thing. First, I imagine that beginners seek and appreciate veteran input into their posts. Second, one of the things that many people like about BT (as has been stated explicitly, as well as implied by BT's comparison to Slow Twitch), is that it retains an inclusive community feeling as opposed to an exclusive or elitist vibe. I fear that separating would discourage beginners from ever wanting to "intrude" in the vets forum. 

Nail.  Head.  This has been an issue on BT for a long time.  Certainly not as long as I've been here, but probably most of that time.  The word "elitist" comes to mind. 

BUT I will propose that it is a two way street.  I have seen threads where people wanting to get their 22 minute 5K time sub 20, have taken flak for it, and end up getting called elitist.  But I have also seen [allegedly] very fast people tell slower people that they do not belong on a course, or they are in the faster riders' way, etc.  Not bryan, etc, and honestly cannot recall the names, so it is not a regular or long lasting BT member.  They also end up getting called elitist, but for the right reason.  Now, some of that might also be trolling.

I don't think either of these exchanges is right.  And maybe BT is skewed by nature to the former type of thread. 

You'll notice I don't have an answer.  But I don't think additional subforums are the answer. 

Let's keep hashing this out. We all want forums where beginners are welcome, but that also retain top-notch information and veteran athletes/posters. Somewhere, a balance CAN be struck, even if it's not the best one; then, too, we can still always change. Nothing is ever written in stone.

Here are some thoughts I wrote to the mods. Where I referred to people personally, it was based on direct public posts they made in the forums.

 BT's seeming--and it may indeed be SEEMING--"brain drain" is troubling. And it isn't just the exit-stage-left of erstwhile celebrities ... it's remaining ones like Fred who deliberately don't post much anymore. Many of my closest friends and formerly active main-forum posters won't post because there is a lot of push-back ... not from accomplished over-egoed folks, but from somewhat accomplished overconfident folks. And the more that posters like Fred, JohnnyKay, and TJ get disgruntled by this (and they are) and refrain from posting, the more the urban myth, conventional-but-unsubstantiated, N=1, somewhat accomplished overconfident folks will dominate the discussion.

This is a separate but related issue ... many Googlers and visitors feel they were misled by the beginnertriathlete nomer. Lots of folks who have checked out my blog and/or race reports were astonished to find the breadth and depth of information and resources here. As you guys rightly point out, while newcomers and beginners still comprise a huge (but quiet) base, the demographic and particularly the posting demographic has changed.

So what do we do?

However, I still think that bifurcating the forums into, for example, expanding Intro Yourself into something like Newbie/Beginner Questions and Introduce Yourself, and combining Iron Distance and Tri Talk into something like a High Performance forum carries a strong risk of a lot of beginners giving bad advice in one, and a slow slide to bigger battles and more sarcasm in the other. HOWEVER ... I think that slow slide could be prevented by actually applying more, not less stringent moderation.I think expanding the role and execution of Mentor Groups is a possibility. The downside is that the great wisdom and experience-sharing that goes on there isn't available to BT as a whole and isn't easily searchable.

I do think having Mentor Groups that are open year-round is essential. It's also a bit odd right now that the December groups tend to have a three-month season while the April ones tend to have a nine-month one. We do miss the New Year's resolutioners and the big summer influx the way it is right now.

I think an ST-style forum search box embedded in the sidebar of the tri talk page could be a huge benefit, as well as the ability to see all of the pages in a thread in one view. These simplify browsing, and encourage deeper discussion.

Example: I come to TT looking for a thread about OWS in cold water. I don’t see anything on the front page, so I start a thread. If I saw that search feature on the page, I’d search, find a thread, read it (all on one screen), and add to the discussion. It would also make all of the knowledge that’s buried 80 pages deep a lot more accessible.

A good, simple, obvious search feature could help TT from seeming "too big" because it would be simple to sift through threads to find what you're looking for

I know nobody asked me, BUT if it were up to me, I would flatten the forums considerably, even merging states to align with our USAT region. Why the experienced have gone silent might be another topic.

ME ME ME I asked you ... uh ... well, I mentioned you ...

I do agree with flattening the forums and merging, along with better search capabilities (if I want to find something on BT, I generally use Google instead of the site's search function!). (One thing, for example, is that gear REVIEWS, kinda like race reports, should have their own section but gear questions/thoughts/comments would go into a main forum).

As far as why the experienced have gone silent ... most of them get busy and tied up with their lives and families and don't want to answer questions about lap counting anymore, which is fine, understandable, and happens in every forum. My worry is about those who do have time and would like to be more involved but refrain from doing so, and for what reasons.