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Political Joe TAN (Page 4)
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 2013-12-06 9:59 AM in reply to: mr2tony |
Pro  9391     Omaha, NE |  Subject: RE: Political Joe TANOriginally posted by mr2tony Originally posted by JoshR OK well is the government really forcing people to borrow? In my opine you hit the nail on the head earlier in your assertion that tuition costs are out of control. It's true, they are. But that doesn't mean people HAVE to borrow. They have options. They could choose to work harder to get a scholarship, join the military and get the GI Bill, work a full-time job while taking as few classes as possible to pay as they go. They could get rid of their cell phones, ipads, cars, get a smaller apartment, drink less beer and stop smoking and use that money for tuition, etc. etc. etc. They could also choose to go to a cheaper school, if one's around, or NOT go to college at all, but then they'd be potentially affecting their future earning ability. Originally posted by mr2tony Well I was in right under the gun -- Independent student status has not been based on whether the student is claimed as an exemption for two decades. The old “bright line test”, which was prone to abuse, was repealed by the Higher Education Amendments of 1992 (P.L. 102-325) effective starting with the 1993-94 award year on July 1, 1993. God I'm old. The gubmint has really gone out of their way to force students into loans and then in turn to make those loans nondischargeable. I really think this crisis is going to undermine economic growth for quite some time. I don't recall exactly what it is, but the delinquency rate has been climbing for quite some time and is only going higher. That in turn just racks up even more nondischargeable debt. This was another point of frustration for my son. He worked his butt off and applied for every single scholarship/grant he was eligible to apply for. We even found some obscure scholarships for children of veterans who served in war and such. I'd say he spend a solid two months writing essays and filling out application forms. What did he get? About 50 letters saying, we feel you are an excellent candidate for this scholarship however due to your parents financial situation we don't feel you have the "need" for the scholarship. Have a nice day. He managed to scrape out a 30 on his ACT which did get him a $1000 scholarship from the university, but that was it. The true irony of it, is he used to have a bit of a bleeding heart streak in him until this whole debacle. After seeing how "easy" the poor kids have it as far as getting scholarships and admitted into college he's having a much tougher time feeling sorry for them. |
| 2013-12-06 10:11 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Champion 6993  Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by tuwood The true irony of it, is he used to have a bit of a bleeding heart streak in him until this whole debacle. After seeing how "easy" the poor kids have it as far as getting scholarships and admitted into college he's having a much tougher time feeling sorry for them. Well I think most of those poor kids would gladly trade spots with him. I do feel his pain somewhat. I know my parents made nothing until time I was looking to go to college. I had no college fund because well they though food was important. When I went they finally made way more than they did most of there lives. My financial aid was based on them doing decent but It was a small time of there lives. I still got a lot (they were not doing that well), but way less then I would have if I went to school 5 years earlier. I ended up leaving school because I just could not afford it. |
| 2013-12-06 10:26 AM in reply to: chirunner134 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by chirunner134 Originally posted by tuwood Well I think most of those poor kids would gladly trade spots with him. I do feel his pain somewhat. I know my parents made nothing until time I was looking to go to college. I had no college fund because well they though food was important. When I went they finally made way more than they did most of there lives. My financial aid was based on them doing decent but It was a small time of there lives. I still got a lot (they were not doing that well), but way less then I would have if I went to school 5 years earlier. I ended up leaving school because I just could not afford it. The true irony of it, is he used to have a bit of a bleeding heart streak in him until this whole debacle. After seeing how "easy" the poor kids have it as far as getting scholarships and admitted into college he's having a much tougher time feeling sorry for them. I'd say yes and no. Yes, they would love to trade places with his upbringing but at his particular life stage they most certainly don't want to be in his shoes because theirs are much better due to their upbringing. I know some people think this is how it should be because the poor kid needs a hand up and I don't really disagree with that. I guess I just don't like the mindset of slapping the kid down that grew up in a "rich" home. Kids can't control what type of environment they grow up in. My son had no more control over his than a poor kid growing up in the hood.
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| 2013-12-06 12:37 PM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 2180 Boise, Idaho | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Hi TAN?, (Is it gonna be PoTAN? PolTAN? PolyTAN?, PojoTAN?) Did anyone get a PS4 yet? Should I get a new Garmin 210 for cheap or the 'improved' 220 for more $$? Does this kevlar vest make me look fat?
Edited by jeffnboise 2013-12-06 12:40 PM |
| 2013-12-06 2:15 PM in reply to: jeffnboise |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by jeffnboise Hi TAN?, (Is it gonna be PoTAN? PolTAN? PolyTAN?, PojoTAN?) Did anyone get a PS4 yet? Should I get a new Garmin 210 for cheap or the 'improved' 220 for more $$? Does this kevlar vest make me look fat?
No. Maybe. Yes. |
| 2013-12-06 4:00 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Expert 2180 Boise, Idaho | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by jeffnboise No. Maybe. Yes. Hi TAN?, (Is it gonna be PoTAN? PolTAN? PolyTAN?, PojoTAN?) Did anyone get a PS4 yet? Should I get a new Garmin 210 for cheap or the 'improved' 220 for more $$? Does this kevlar vest make me look fat?
Sorry, I've been sobbing over our coach change. |
| 2013-12-06 5:00 PM in reply to: jeffnboise |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by jeffnboise Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by jeffnboise No. Maybe. Yes. Hi TAN?, (Is it gonna be PoTAN? PolTAN? PolyTAN?, PojoTAN?) Did anyone get a PS4 yet? Should I get a new Garmin 210 for cheap or the 'improved' 220 for more $$? Does this kevlar vest make me look fat?
Sorry, I've been sobbing over our coach change. Growing up a Husky fan I'm happy, but as a BSU fan I'm sad. I just hope they don't do something dumb like promote Prince. |
| 2013-12-06 7:49 PM in reply to: jeffnboise |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by jeffnboise Hi TAN?, (Is it gonna be PoTAN? PolTAN? PolyTAN?, PojoTAN?) Did anyone get a PS4 yet? Should I get a new Garmin 210 for cheap or the 'improved' 220 for more $$? Does this kevlar vest make me look fat?
No, your big belly makes you look fat |
| 2013-12-06 11:57 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Side out red team http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2014-national-house-race Edited by tuwood 2013-12-06 11:58 PM |
| 2013-12-07 8:13 PM in reply to: #4907847 |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Heres a fun one www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-07/highest-radiation-level-ever-lethal-20-minutes-recorded-outside-fukushima-reactor |
| 2013-12-08 6:52 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Master 2380 Beijing | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN |
| 2013-12-09 10:09 AM in reply to: moondawg14 |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN |
| 2013-12-10 12:00 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Are selfies at a wake appropriate? It doesn't look like Michelle thinks so. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/10/obama-takes-self... |
| 2013-12-10 12:16 PM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by Jackemy1 Are selfies at a wake appropriate? It doesn't look like Michelle thinks so. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/10/obama-takes-self... Hey at least Michelle is paying attention to the ceremony. |
| 2013-12-10 12:19 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Jackemy1 Are selfies at a wake appropriate? It doesn't look like Michelle thinks so. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/10/obama-takes-self... Hey at least Michelle is paying attention to the ceremony. Well at least there was one adult in the room. |
| 2013-12-10 2:09 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Expert 2180 Boise, Idaho | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by jeffnboise Hi TAN?, (Is it gonna be PoTAN? PolTAN? PolyTAN?, PojoTAN?) Did anyone get a PS4 yet? Should I get a new Garmin 210 for cheap or the 'improved' 220 for more $$? Does this kevlar vest make me look fat?
No, your big belly makes you look fat I. HATE. YOU. jk |
| 2013-12-11 11:12 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-11/americans-say-dream-fading... Anyone else think this is a problem? The less people feel they can improve their standing, the less likely they are to try I think. |
| 2013-12-11 11:34 AM in reply to: JoshR |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by JoshR http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-11/americans-say-dream-fading... Anyone else think this is a problem? The less people feel they can improve their standing, the less likely they are to try I think. The bigger problem is the propaganda of class warfare and the attitude that you can't increase your lot in life unless someone else's lot in life is decreased. That was never the American experience. But when Obama and other liberal leaders continually feed you that line of bull, you'll eventually believe it. |
| 2013-12-11 11:49 AM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by JoshR http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-11/americans-say-dream-fading... Anyone else think this is a problem? The less people feel they can improve their standing, the less likely they are to try I think. The bigger problem is the propaganda of class warfare and the attitude that you can't increase your lot in life unless someone else's lot in life is decreased. That was never the American experience. But when Obama and other liberal leaders continually feed you that line of bull, you'll eventually believe it. I thought if we paid people more things would just cost more? See $15 for Mcdonald's Employee thread. If we double the pay of McDonald's employees things would cost at least twice at much. At the same time it would mean person with 1 million dollars buying power will be same as $500k or less so yes the more you hold others back the more of what have is worth. When a company makes 1 Million they only have 1 million to give out. Put it another way. If we were playing poker and I have 20k and you have 20 million there is a good chance your walking away with it all. A couple early breaks and who knows I could be in the game but its way more likely you will have it all. If I have 200k and you have 400k then I have a much greater shot. |
| 2013-12-11 12:37 PM in reply to: chirunner134 |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by chirunner134 Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by JoshR http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-11/americans-say-dream-fading... Anyone else think this is a problem? The less people feel they can improve their standing, the less likely they are to try I think. The bigger problem is the propaganda of class warfare and the attitude that you can't increase your lot in life unless someone else's lot in life is decreased. That was never the American experience. But when Obama and other liberal leaders continually feed you that line of bull, you'll eventually believe it. I thought if we paid people more things would just cost more? See $15 for Mcdonald's Employee thread. If we double the pay of McDonald's employees things would cost at least twice at much. At the same time it would mean person with 1 million dollars buying power will be same as $500k or less so yes the more you hold others back the more of what have is worth. When a company makes 1 Million they only have 1 million to give out. Put it another way. If we were playing poker and I have 20k and you have 20 million there is a good chance your walking away with it all. A couple early breaks and who knows I could be in the game but its way more likely you will have it all. If I have 200k and you have 400k then I have a much greater shot. The problem with your analogy is that a poker game is a sum-zero game. The amount gained by winners equals the amount lost by losers. Liberals who preach class warfare think the economy works exactly like a poker game. It's like they all went to the Gordon Gecko School of Economic..... "It’s not a question of enough, pal. It’s a Zero Sum game – somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn’t lost or made, it’s simply transferred – from one perception to another. Like magic."... Well truth be told, Gordon Gecko is liberal fiction, just like his economic theories. The economy is not a zero sum game with winners and losers. The size of the pie in not static where a bigger piece for you is the result of a small piece for someone else. The economic pie is constantly growing through investment of capital, technology and free market transactions. So individual absolutely climb the economic ladder without having to bring down the people above them. It is why free market capitalism creates the best chance for the poor to rise in economic status. |
| 2013-12-11 1:19 PM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Let's hope the congressional budget accord means a 2014 budget gets passed soon. Looks like they restored the NIH budget. My grant has been pending for 2 months now, and I have another kid starting college next fall. $520.5 billion for defense. All for a strong defense, but that's still more than twice as much as China and Russia combined. |
| 2013-12-11 2:29 PM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by tuwood Well at least there was one adult in the room. Originally posted by Jackemy1 Are selfies at a wake appropriate? It doesn't look like Michelle thinks so. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/10/obama-takes-self... Hey at least Michelle is paying attention to the ceremony. |
| 2013-12-11 2:35 PM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by chirunner134 Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by JoshR http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-11/americans-say-dream-fading... Anyone else think this is a problem? The less people feel they can improve their standing, the less likely they are to try I think. The bigger problem is the propaganda of class warfare and the attitude that you can't increase your lot in life unless someone else's lot in life is decreased. That was never the American experience. But when Obama and other liberal leaders continually feed you that line of bull, you'll eventually believe it. I thought if we paid people more things would just cost more? See $15 for Mcdonald's Employee thread. If we double the pay of McDonald's employees things would cost at least twice at much. At the same time it would mean person with 1 million dollars buying power will be same as $500k or less so yes the more you hold others back the more of what have is worth. When a company makes 1 Million they only have 1 million to give out. Put it another way. If we were playing poker and I have 20k and you have 20 million there is a good chance your walking away with it all. A couple early breaks and who knows I could be in the game but its way more likely you will have it all. If I have 200k and you have 400k then I have a much greater shot. The problem with your analogy is that a poker game is a sum-zero game. The amount gained by winners equals the amount lost by losers. Liberals who preach class warfare think the economy works exactly like a poker game. It's like they all went to the Gordon Gecko School of Economic..... "It’s not a question of enough, pal. It’s a Zero Sum game – somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn’t lost or made, it’s simply transferred – from one perception to another. Like magic."... Well truth be told, Gordon Gecko is liberal fiction, just like his economic theories. The economy is not a zero sum game with winners and losers. The size of the pie in not static where a bigger piece for you is the result of a small piece for someone else. The economic pie is constantly growing through investment of capital, technology and free market transactions. So individual absolutely climb the economic ladder without having to bring down the people above them. It is why free market capitalism creates the best chance for the poor to rise in economic status. Sooner or later, people are going to have to admit that the ever-growing disparity in wealth in this country is completely unsustainable. It's completely absurd to claim that there's "class warfare" in a country where the disparity between the richest Americans and the poorest is wider than it's ever been in our history and getting wider every day. If the wealthy are losing this class warfare, who's winning? Because it isn't the shrinking middle class and the poor. Giving the wealthiest Americans unfettered opportunuty to grow greater and greater wealth in the vain hope that it somehow dribbles down to everyone else in some substantial measure isn't a solution and hasn't ever been. In fact, it's gotten us exactly to where we are today. It's amazing to me that we've somehow gotten to a place where a lot of people believe that the poor are to blame for our weak economy, that if we stripped our entitlement programs down to nothing, that everything would be fixed, and that, when you point out that an economy where less 5% of the population controls 50% of the wealth is, at the very least unstable, you get accused of waging "class warfare". If indeed there is class warfare in this country, I think a lot of people aren't on the side they'd like to think they're on. |
| 2013-12-12 7:59 AM in reply to: 0 |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Sooner or later, people are going to have to admit that the ever-growing disparity in wealth in this country is completely unsustainable. It's completely absurd to claim that there's "class warfare" in a country where the disparity between the richest Americans and the poorest is wider than it's ever been in our history and getting wider every day. If the wealthy are losing this class warfare, who's winning? Because it isn't the shrinking middle class and the poor. Giving the wealthiest Americans unfettered opportunuty to grow greater and greater wealth in the vain hope that it somehow dribbles down to everyone else in some substantial measure isn't a solution and hasn't ever been. In fact, it's gotten us exactly to where we are today. It's amazing to me that we've somehow gotten to a place where a lot of people believe that the poor are to blame for our weak economy, that if we stripped our entitlement programs down to nothing, that everything would be fixed, and that, when you point out that an economy where less 5% of the population controls 50% of the wealth is, at the very least unstable, you get accused of waging "class warfare". If indeed there is class warfare in this country, I think a lot of people aren't on the side they'd like to think they're on. I lost you here... You point out the absurdity of suggesting that the liberals are using class warfare as a political weapon yet you are giving a class warfare argument for the reasons for the sluggish economic for the foreseeable future. I'm not aware of anyone who has any legitimacy on the right claim that the poor is to blame for the weak economy (I am sure I can Google some obscure idiot back-bencher if I tried). Yet daily the liberals who have political legitimacy blame the rich and use it as a tool to increase their power and ideology. And like I said, if you hear it enough times it starts to become a self fulfilling prophecy. It's not hard to find examples of this. Just look to Obama who shilled class warfare as an argument to grow government in his speech yesterday. "The combined trends of increased inequality and decreasing mobility pose a fundamental threat to the American Dream, our way of life, and what we stand for around the globe. And it is not simply a moral claim that I’m making here. There are practical consequences to rising inequality and reduced mobility...... Edited by Jackemy1 2013-12-12 8:04 AM |
| 2013-12-12 8:54 AM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Sooner or later, people are going to have to admit that the ever-growing disparity in wealth in this country is completely unsustainable. It's completely absurd to claim that there's "class warfare" in a country where the disparity between the richest Americans and the poorest is wider than it's ever been in our history and getting wider every day. If the wealthy are losing this class warfare, who's winning? Because it isn't the shrinking middle class and the poor. Giving the wealthiest Americans unfettered opportunuty to grow greater and greater wealth in the vain hope that it somehow dribbles down to everyone else in some substantial measure isn't a solution and hasn't ever been. In fact, it's gotten us exactly to where we are today. It's amazing to me that we've somehow gotten to a place where a lot of people believe that the poor are to blame for our weak economy, that if we stripped our entitlement programs down to nothing, that everything would be fixed, and that, when you point out that an economy where less 5% of the population controls 50% of the wealth is, at the very least unstable, you get accused of waging "class warfare". If indeed there is class warfare in this country, I think a lot of people aren't on the side they'd like to think they're on. I lost you here... You point out the absurdity of suggesting that the liberals are using class warfare as a political weapon yet you are giving a class warfare argument for the reasons for the sluggish economic for the foreseeable future. I'm not aware of anyone who has any legitimacy on the right claim that the poor is to blame for the weak economy (I am sure I can Google some obscure idiot back-bencher if I tried). Yet daily the liberals who have political legitimacy blame the rich and use it as a tool to increase their power and ideology. And like I said, if you hear it enough times it starts to become a self fulfilling prophecy. It's not hard to find examples of this. Just look to Obama who shilled class warfare as an argument to grow government in his speech yesterday. "The combined trends of increased inequality and decreasing mobility pose a fundamental threat to the American Dream, our way of life, and what we stand for around the globe. And it is not simply a moral claim that I’m making here. There are practical consequences to rising inequality and reduced mobility...... So, just to make sure we're on the same page here: In your opinion, trying to take steps to decrease economic inequality and increase the opportunity for economic mobility constitutes "Class Warfare"? I'll ask again, if the rich are losing in this class warfare, who's winning? The 75% of Americans who are sharing ten percent of the wealth? That's a Pyrrhic victory if I've ever heard one. And I'm no "Occupy Wall Street" person either. I'm much closer to the 1% than I ever thought I'd be growing up, but I'm realistic enough to recognize that if the only people who have a real opportunity to succeed are the people who were lucky enough to be born into families with means, we're going to continue to get further and further apart. And yes, any kid and pull himself up by his bootstraps and put his shoulder to the wheel and his nose to the grindstone and be a CEO someday, but it's folly to ignore the obvious truth that it's overwhelmingly easier to get ahead in this country when you come from a wealthy family than if you come from a middle class background. And I guess you haven't been paying attention, but you don't have to look any farther than this board to see the poor being blamed for the troubled economy. If it were up to many people here, welafre, unemployment, and other social services would be ground down to next to nothing. On one thread, you have people saying stuff like, "people should get off unemployment and try to support their family on their own, even if it means flipping burgers", while on the next thread you have people saying, "flipping burgers is for college students" and not for anyone who needs to make an actual living. The tenor is "I've got mine, and eff everyone else." I especially enjoyed the person bemoaning his rotten luck that he was too wealthy for his kids to be eligible for financial aid. |
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