JohnnyKay and Fred Doucette's HIM/IM focused Mentor group-CLOSED (Page 43)

x3 

Soreness for me really depends on the race.  But, generally, I tend to be most "sore" 2 days after a hard race.  I haven't done a hard oly in 2 years, but I looked in my logs and I swam & ran the day after.  Was a little sore on Tuesday, but still biked hard.  Wed I was forced to sleep-in and skip a swim, but the rest of the week was pretty 'typical'.

But, like you noted, I think the difference from years prior is just having a higher level of endurance which makes recovering from the harder efforts a bit easier.  Both of you have plenty of endurance and so should expect to recover pretty quickly from an oly.

I'm thinking it has to be that both you and Fred are familiar with that training pace and it sounds like you do a decent amount of weekly training at or above those paces.  Whereas a slouch like myself doesn't hit my race pace too often in training (I know I probably should do so more often), when I do hit it hard in a race I am ALWAYS sore afterward.  Similiar to John, I am also most sore 2 days afterward.  Out of curiousity, how often in a typical week/workout do you freaks (in a good way) hit or exceed race paces in training?

For me today it was an early morning brick.  60 minutes on the bike followed immediately by 30 ez run.  Good workout...felt good. 

Good stuff...thanks for the feedback.

docswim24 - 2011-05-24 10:38 AM

sbsmann - 2011-05-24 10:43 AM

docswim24 - 2011-05-24 7:26 AM

Fred Doucette - 2011-05-23 8:39 PM

OK, ready to start training again tomorrow. 2 of the last 3 days with no training is not a normal phenomenon for me.

I really don't feel any soreness or fatigue from my race, which is strange because usually I am more sore after even an olympic. Wonder what gives??

Same thing with me. I used to get sore after an Oly and very sore after a 1/2. I am/was fine after both this year. I think it has to do with years in the sport and training paces. Looking at the race - any of the individual pieces of the race could have been a hard training day for me but none were that different than what I do in training on a regular basis (swim was but swimming is not likely to make you to sore). Thoughts?

I'm thinking it has to be that both you and Fred are familiar with that training pace and it sounds like you do a decent amount of weekly training at or above those paces.  Whereas a slouch like myself doesn't hit my race pace too often in training (I know I probably should do so more often), when I do hit it hard in a race I am ALWAYS sore afterward.  Similiar to John, I am also most sore 2 days afterward.  Out of curiousity, how often in a typical week/workout do you freaks (in a good way) hit or exceed race paces in training?

For me today it was an early morning brick.  60 minutes on the bike followed immediately by 30 ez run.  Good workout...felt good. 

Not freaks - just consistent. Swimming - I swim harder than Oly race pace for at least 1/2 of every swim practice unless it is a pure recovery swim, like yesterday, the day after a race (I also will do a recovery swim after a long run). So 2x per week. Bike - My short rides (1-1.5 hour) are usually pretty close to my effort at an Oly (Power for the training ride will usually be within 0-10% of power at my Oly race). I try to get in 2 shorter/hard rides per week. I stalked John, Fred and Bryan when I first got on BT and noted that a lot of their longer rides were either at or above their racing pace/effort level. It took a few years for me to be able to do this but I think doing it significantly improved my biking. Run - much less often on the run. Maybe 10% of my weekly volume will be at race pace and this has taken me years to build up to.

Thanks...good info.  I've been poking around a lot recently about pace and how hard one should go and how often.  It's definitely a perplexing topic.   One of my big concerns is injury and I know that going too hard too often can be a recipe for disaster...especially on the run.  But with the swim and the bike being fairly low impact and generally easier on the body (vs running), they seem to provide a much better opportunity to go harder more often as you indicate.  I am amazed that many of you can do your longer rides at or above race pace, but I guess that's the recipe for becomming a competitor!

Dan - I'm wondering what your short bikes make up in relation to your total bikes during a week?  Riding at what I assume is close to FTP twice a week seems quite high to me - but I assume it doesn't take much of a toll on you otherwise you wouldn't be doing it.

Yup...that's my strategy too.  You learn very quickly on group rides that you can get gapped pretty big if you don't maintain power till the beginning of the downhill...and you would think you can close the gap by letting yourself recover at the top of the hill and hammering the downhill as they recover...but it's actually very difficult.

I just got a huge knot in my stomach.

For the Hawaii 70.3 I'm doing...they changed the Hawaii Residency Kona slots to a random lottery, instead of the top Hawaii state finisher in each AG.

Turns out there are still 20 spots available, but only 89 Hawaii (non Big Island...they have their own separate lottery with better odds) turned in the paperwork to become eligible for those slots.  Spots are not gender or age related.  Basically my name is in a hat with 88 other people, and 20 will be drawn.  I think most people have not realized the change in the selection process.

http://c28490.r90.cf1.rackcdn.com/2010/11/2011-Hawaii-State-Resident-Entries-to-Post-Revised-5-11-11.pdf

Really good info - here's a couple of followups.  Are most of your shorter rides done steady state or interval work where the total ride nets out over 85%?  How about our other speedy bikers?  I'm assuming the standard response will be a mix of long, tempo, and interval work all work together to improve you as a cyclist.

Does this mean you have a 1 in 4 shot of doing Kona this year?

So long as I finish the HIM...yes...a ~ 1 in 4.5 shot at a spot in Kona.  Big Island residents who turned in the necessary residency paperwork are even better.  24 out of 50 will get slots...or roughly a 50% chance.

Names will be drawn at a party at Bike Works the Saturday following the race (6/11)...and those not present will be emailed on the following Monday (6/13).  My birthday is 6/9...I think that would be a pretty cool gift don't you think?

Not holding my breath...but as that Russian guy from the movie Armagedon said..."Good Odds".

Those are really good odds!

Generally, short workouts are done on the trainer as intervals.  Longer intervals (10-20') at/near FT.  Some shorter intervals done harder.  Done once or twice a week.

Longer rides outside may be steady state or some moderately structured longer intervals (maybe 30-45' at a little above HIM effort).  Sometimes I will throw in some shorter, harder efforts as well.  Or do some FT intervals and then ride steady for the remainder.  The majority of my long rides are 2-3hrs and, in-season, I like to do that both Sat & Sun (Sat ride usually a bit longer/harder).

It's really all about doing the work.  The easier you ride, the longer you have to ride in order to 'do the work'.  When you ride harder, you can get away with less time.  That's basically my biggest driver for riding the way I do.