Ironman Lake Placid : Official Thread (Page 44)

Boo,

Thanks for your input. I totally agree about the bike not being the answer. I know my engine is the biggest reason i will succeed or not succeed on the course.  Your accurate about my rides, I usually throw in the ERG video for IMLP course and ride my planned time.   I'm working on increasing my power and have not been diligent on logging it. I will retest my FTP tomorrow to check on gains although I missed 2 weeks due to illness.

As for the marathons before IMLP, those are going to be training runs as IMLP is my ultimate goal. I hadn't expected to get into IMLP but was lucky enough to sign up online. Tupper Lake is just a great long day to prep before tapering.

I appreciate your sharing your thoughts and experience since you have also been in my shoes.  I know gear or equipment alone won't get me through IM but they can assist with me being successful.  I didn't expect miracles but know that if I can cut down on my drag then I will finish the bike faster and fresher.

Again thanks for the reality check. See you as you lap me.

klassman - if you did a HM at that time, your equivalent mary time is easily under 4 hours, something had to be different with training, race plan, etc. to go over 5 hrs. You are a sub 4 hr mary and sounds like you are getting faster, so i would use your half results as your benchmark.

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=6765

I like to ride outside as much as possible, I'll keep doing the 100+ RPM workouts on the trainer and others as needed to fit into the schedule (after dark) during the week as needed.  I want to ride as much as possible in my aero tri bike position and I keep my road bike on my trainer (mostly out of lazyness, at first I felt I was babying my new tri bike, but I hate futzing with gear when I am putting in so many hours training already). 

I also want to get some carbon wheels soon and want to train on them so again, I don't have to futz with gear on off for races/training, etc. and want to get used to riding with the new wheels.  But I see so many advising not to train on them due to wear and tear.  You pay so much, why not put some miles on them and get the good out of them?  Any thoughts from you all with carbon wheels? 

Hey LP Peeps.  Some good discussions going on.  I've been very sick.  Came down with strep/flu Saturday and was bedridden with fever and chills for four days.  Still recovering but feel much better, although the antibiotics have shredded my intenstines.  I did a 50-mile ride last Thursday with 30mph winds - a tough, challenging ride to say the least which severely lowered my immunity.   

Remember, after hard efforts our immuninities can be considerably compromised for up to 36 hours.  I've read a dozen studies of ultra-distance athletes and sickness and it's very simple: we are at an extremely high risk for sickness, especially upper respiratory infections.  There a simple things we can do to better our odds of staying healthy.  Such as getting the appropriate amount of rest after Long Run/ Long Bike.  Proper post-workout nutrition (nutrient dense, natural foods)  Avoiding crowded inside public places.  Proper hand-washing and hand-sanitizing.  Multivitamin.  Not drinking out of your young children's glasses.   Simple things that we may overlook or forget due to fatigue. 

It was KILLING me to be sick as a dog Sunday and it was almost 70 degrees and sunny out.  But we have plenty of time for outside riding.  I should be back in the saddle, 100% next week. 

KEEP ON KEEPING ON LP PEEPS!!  THE WARM WEATHER AND BLUE SKIES ARE HERE!!  THE GOAL IS GETTING SO CLOSE.  CAN YOU TASTE IT? 

Ha. I doubt I will lap you.

I'm no coach, I'm not an elite AG'er but I listen relatively well. I would, in my opinion, seriously debate doing those marathons. If Placid is your ultimate goal then train for Placid. Running 1 let alone 3 marathons will only hurt you. In marathon training you NEVER run 26.2 miles in training so why would you do that training for an ironman? TL 70.3 from what I hear is a great race and most likely you will be ok to race Placid after it since the last 3 weeks or so you will be tapering anyway... but do yourself a favor and ask people who have done an IM if they have run a marathon, or 3, leading up to their first IM. I know a lot of people's goals are to 'just finish' but I want to see you finish healthy and not walking the last 10 miles in pain.

As was explained to me, someone who is looking to finish in the 13-14 hour mark, there is not a lot of room for error. 10 hours can turn to 12 quick... 12 to15 and 14 to a DNF. Your body needs to recover from the pounding it takes  from the marathons and if you are training for a marathon how are you training towards an IM? They are two totally different beasts.

You will need to take a week or 2 off after each marathon... that is a total of 3-6 weeks off of intense IM training... can you afford to do that? And if you go right back into training after the marathon(s), regardless if it's a 'training' run, you will be doing your body damage that you won't see for weeks to follow. I'm not here to preach but I think this forum is an avenue for people to help one another... regardless of skill level. This is year 3 for me and I am finally not a BOP'er but it is because of my brother/coach who tells me what to do and more importantly WHY to do it. He never says..."do this" without an explanation.

One of the things I never did before it was told to me was read. I read 1-2 race reports a day and trying to read more.

Let's kick some a$$ out there come July

You may be a sub 4 hr marathoner but in IM those numbers mean nothing there is a vdot chart for converting 1/2 Mary times to IM marathon times I know my 1:43 1/2 MAry converts to arounf a 4:19 IM marathon.

Here is the link for converting HM times to IM marathon times.

http://www.personalbestnutrition.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1223516487

And there's a huge factor everyone is forgetting and the charts don't account for - if it's your first Ironman Marathon. 

My 13.1 mile time is a 1:29.  My marathon PR is a 3:15 and I've run several 3:30 marathons.  My first Ironman marathon time was a 4:27.  And I came off the Bike feeling good.  Actually felt really good for the first 12 miles. 

Can't stress enough, the fact that we will be starting a Marathon AFTER having traveles 114.4 Miles.  That's just 4-miles short of the length of Long  Island.   

So the chart numbers are for people with experience, flawless training, and flawless race day execution (spot-on nutrition, no bike mechanicals, etc...)  Keep that in mind that there will be issues on Race Day.  That's part of Ironman - overcoming the problems that aris, focusing, and pushing through. 

To try and guess and what your Marathon time will be is exciting and fun, but kind of silly.  There are male pro's who have blown up at LP.  In 2010 Brian Rhodes ran a 4:20 marathon after a 5:02 bike split.  It happens.  It's good to start the Marathon very EZ, Aerobic, keep your HR in Zone 2 and if you feel good, build into the second half of it.  Trust me, you WILL NOT FEEL GOOD for the second half of your Marathon.  I guarantee it   It's an energy thing, or lack of.  After 10+ hours of racing and traversing 128 miles, it will come down to durability and your energy sources will be the lowest you've ever experienced.   

If you have a very specific training/nutrition plan, have pre-scouted and trained the course , and again - execute all of this flawlessly - your Ironman Marathon time should have a decouple between 10 & 15% of your stand-alone marathon time.  So if you run the course stand-alone, fresh and you run 4 hours flat you can run a 4:36 or better if you've executed your training perfectly, nailed your race day nutrition, and properly paced your swim and bike on race day.  I've seen one in a hundred guys do this on their first Ironman attempt.  And the one guy I've seen do it, he was picked up by a sponsorship team immediately.    

For 70.3 your decouple should be no more than 8% if you've prepared properly.  So if your stand-alone half is a 1:32, your 70.3 half marathon should be no more than a 1:40.  This is provided terrain and weather are similar.  You cannot accurately compare times on a flat course compared to a hilly one, or a 55 degree fall day to 90 degrees in July. 

I can't stress enough that you must be a student of this sport to nail your first Ironman Marathon the first time out.  It's a rare - rare feat.  The Ironman Marathon is really hard.  And really painful for the 2nd loop.  It's something you have to experience to appreciate. 

Here's a stat:  Comparing 41,000 finishing times in 2010 - the Average Ironman Run time is 40% of the Race.  So the Ironman Marathon is only 18.7% distance of the Race but takes 40% of the total time to complete the race. 

The numbers don't lie and chances are, you will fall into the average Ironman athlete category.  Go out for an 80-mile ride and run 15-miles some time if you want just a taste of what Race Day will feel like.  YES we will be tapered and fresh for Ironman Race Day but the taper is not a miracle worker by any stretch of the imagination.     

Here's a great article from one of the smartest coaches in triathlon -

http://kropelnicki.com/?p=292

Your training looks great.  You will be 100% fine.  Seriously, no worries J-Money!!  

People obsessing on the numbers should be coaches and pure students of the sport who have this down to a science, and admirably devote a large portion of their daily life to triathlon.  Trust me, nobody I know of in this thread is in that category - not that I know of?  Especially myself. 

If we all Follow and Trust our Training Plan, all will be good on Race Day.  We will all be rewarded if we just Keep it Simple. 

It's fun and good to have target numbers to shoot for.  But more than likely, it will take several years to achieve any numbers we think of.

JMoney, as long as you stay healthy during training, this will be waiting for you and all of us at the finish line - except with the numbers 2012 -

I am going to punish myself for that!!!

I wanted a Shirt!!

I hope you feel better quickly, Bobby.

If I remember your race blog...you almost conceded this race and you would not be the proud owner of that aforementioned race medal/hat...Aren't you glad you sucked it up after that bike crash??

We have quite a good group of guys/gals on this thread. I really appreciate all the thoughts and ideas but the experienced ones chiming in are priceless to me.

Bobby- I hear ya, I'm just sticking to the plan for sure.  I think I'll be alright for the race provided I stay healthy, and reading that article makes all the sense in the world now.  The hard part will be to actualy use all that information during the race.  I can only imagine how I'll feel when I'm in the first few miles of the bike course and people are flying by me.  I'm going to want to push harder then I'm supposed too, so if I can just use that information in the article during the race I'll be golden. 

In my last post I was actually just writing a new comercial for direct TV

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpwlh1yl054

You should see the finisher jackets that are at the shop the next day.  When I volunteered this past year I watched as all the people that raced the day before trying on the finisher jackets.  It's like watching the winner of a PGA tournament getting to put on the green jacket.  That's what I'll be shooting for.

Ditto!  Ive lost my running this week to really sore feet and knees and now have to move my belongings from a rented condo to a house we just bought.  Just trying to stay healthy enough to be in the lake at 6:45 on 7/22 is a really tough challenge.  Executing the enormous amount of info Ive picked up since Sept. of last year and riding at my pace so I can finish the run will be my challenges. 

If I remember correctly, you gotta buy that.  $600 entry fee doesn't include a shirt!  A hat, medal, and smack on that back with a 'have a Nice Day'

When I did florida in 200 I got a medal and a shirt.

I guess the hat will complete the outfit!

Had a good swim this morning 3850 yards straight (I don't know if i am stupid or crazy)

That's not in the Fink plan, Don't forget you will be in the pool tomorrow (if you are doing the competitive plan, not sure about the intermediate).  You are like the people passing me on the bike,  now I just want to train more

Finks plan does have Intermediate doing 3 swims a week (but I am only doing 2 swims until the lake gets warm enough to OWS)

I didn't crash on the bike?  Not moi    Thanks for the get well wishes.  I am feeling much better.

Agreed, we have a great group here.  I know for myself, I took all the advice of BT'ers and friends whom raced this course before.  Until around Mile 11 or 12 on race day, I was thinking I was going to run a 3:30 Marathon   

It's fun to fantasize about feeling great all day and finishing with primo times, but reality is... it's not gonna happen.  At least the first time out.   But it's important to have goal times.  But it's even more important to 'stay within yourself' your first 140.6.  I've seen this race break the fastest fittest, most-knowledgeable athletes.  Guys who go sub 4 hours 30 mins at 70.3 events end up on their backs, lying snow angel on the side of the road at mile 8 of the Ironman Marathon and swearing off the 140.6 distance.    

The Ironman is NOT a double 70.3 ; just like the Marathon is NOT double a 13.1.  It's a different beast all together.  

If you respect the distance, stay within yourself, keep you HR low enough to absorb the nutrition, you will have a great day!!