SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 46)

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by TSimone 

That's what I run on my race wheels.  And it's not weight so much as rolling resistance and IMO a bit more comfort on long course.  Roadies are probably more weight weenies than triathletes.  We're aero weenies.  But in the end, we're both still weenies.   

Exactly, it has nothing to do with the weight and everything to do with the rolling resistance.  When properly installed (which is the hard part) a latex tube is no more puncture prone than regular tubes.  The trouble is they are very sensitive to being pinched during installation and if your rim tape isn't seated properly or has any flaws they can easily pop.

OK. This is good info. Doesn't do anything to make me feel better about my LBS though :/ Can someone explain how the tube impacts RR? I wouldn't have thought of that because it doesn't have contact with the road. Apologies for what I'm guessing is a very basic question

The tube still flexes with the tire. The latex material also returns energy better than butyl when it reforms.

Some shops may just not want to deal with latex (or really might not know). Differences in flat issues are more installation related as the latex is more sensitive. Another spot to what Arend listed is the tube poking out a little from under the bead of the tire. Have to be careful on the install, but once it's in it's good.

Honestly, my knee feels WORSE now that I'm not riding.  Admittedly, it's hard to tell if it's worse because I'm not riding....or because I'm doing less PT (and not as good about doing my at-home stuff), or becuase I ran a HIM three weeks ago.  All I know is that it currently feels worse, and my justification is that I'm not riding, so I'll be starting again soon!

It's currently set up with Conti GP4000s tires and butyl tubes -- I will put latex tubes in for races, but for every day use, the butyls were just easier. 

The next two items on the to-buy list are an aerojacket and an aero helmet.

For those who have "race wheels", do you train on them as well?  My current plan is to train on the Flo's when I'm outside, but put my training wheel with crappy tire on for my trainer rides.  As an added benefit, doing it that way will force me to get better at removing the rear wheel (Cevelo's stupid horizontal drop-outs always screw me up for some reason!). 

I only have a front FLO and a cover on the rear wheel.  I don't train on the FLO and I remove the cover.  If I had a pair of FLOs I would be tempted to just leave them on but not sure.  One benefit is that I don't have to install a new latex tube for every race because it is already mounted on the FLO.

As for those horizontal drop outs, I used to hate them until I learned the trick to removing and installing the wheel without touching the chain.  It's a piece of cake and better IMO once you do that.  If you don't know it already, it basically involves removing the skewer completely (don't lose the spring!) and a little manual manipulation of the RD.  There are videos on Youtube of it.

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by bzgl40

Speaking of toys...at long last.  Not sure I can afford the price tag though

 

Oh. My. God. Now I know why I've been waiting on the PM A little bummed about the pedal, but I could get over that. Too cool.

Ray is awesome, I love this picture.

Sorry, forgot they show less info to people who aren't logged in on an account.  Anyhow I was around 165 for the first 3 hours (I'm no Boston qualifier here), and tailed off into the 150s after I blew up.  My bike HR doesn't go quite as high as when I'm running but that's individual too.

I think z2 training can work but once your body is fully adjusted, you have to find a way to stress it again.  More volume or more intensity.  If you're doing the more volume route, you really have to be consistent and not miss days, even when it's a short jog... go look at Adrienne's training log

Personally I benefit from 1 or 2 days with more intensity on the running because I can handle it without injury and a BarryP style program doesn't fit into my desire for doing triathlon and still having a life.  If I was only running, maybe a different story.

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by bzgl40

Speaking of toys...at long last.  Not sure I can afford the price tag though

 

Oh. My. God. Now I know why I've been waiting on the PM A little bummed about the pedal, but I could get over that. Too cool.

Ray is awesome, I love this picture.

No SRM?  I'm so disappointed.

I remember that discussion. And to me, the justifications used for the HIM tended to show more about some of the posters lack of understanding than the possibility of doing the events. Some of it was how their buddy was able to win their AG and place very well overall in each race  (or something like that). But if their buddy was say Andreas Raelert, his everyday training paces could very well take care of that in the amateur ranks, especially in a smaller, less competitive field. He's just THAT fast. I've done near HIM volumes in that same time period, but not nearly at race effort. It started to come around later in the discussion, but I don't think a number involved really got it that how hard one goes in the race has a big effect. Placing and paces offer little to nothing to that effect since we don't know just how good the guy doing it was.

I completely agree on the smooth/low VI point.  My comment wasn't to indicate that holding a high HR meant one could/should therefore actually redline the whole time (one form of overcooking) or spike a bunch (the other form).  Rather, I'm only suggesting that, precisely because everyone is different, Switch's TH might be higher than one would expect from just looking at max HR and taking a percentage of that or some such method.

This is, of course, assuming that the definition of threshold is the effort level one can sustain for one hour only (hence, my comment about the 3 hours in the mid-high 160's - that's sub-threshold, however impressive!).  If it's just the number above which you don't want to go for a given race, then it's something different than what I call threshold...

It's likely that, while we have the same HRmax, my threshold HR is lower.  So, we'd have different targets for the same race.  Make sense?

Now I've written threshold so many times that the word has ceased meaning anything to me. 

Matt

I've done Boston a couple of times, but not since kids. I'd like to BQ again and go, especially after what happened this year. I'm toying with the idea of going for a BQ this fall.  The qualifying times really are much easier for women.

Like you, my run threshold is higher than my bike.  I'm hoping that's just a matter of getting cycling legs...

I don't know what my number is I could hold for one hour, but I feel like that number and the number I can hold for three hours is really close, like maybe 4-5bpm apart. Maybe I've just never really pushed myself (fresh and well rested) for one hour to get a good number? Do some people just have a close grouping on those numbers?

I train with an 808 rear and 404 front tubulars (with Gatorskins for tires - I don't want a flat if I can help it, and don't mind slower rides in training).  I race with a sub-9 rear disc and 808 front tubulars with GP4000s.  I only use them in races or race simulations (peak and taper, 2 weeks total before the race, and then not for all my rides over that time - just the race pace/effort simulations, if that).  For the drainer, I have an old wheel with a trainer tire apparently made of pliable black concrete or some such. 

I bought them used (except the 808 rear, which was a closeout as no one around here seems to like tubies and the LBS was trying to get rid of it below cost), which helped a ton!

Aero helmet is the best aero bang for the buck, IMO.  Dorky, sure - but it works!  And tri folks happily find dorky to be cool (aaahhhhh, my peeps).

As for the horizontal drops, I, too, cannot stand them.  Such a pain...  Although, as my kids remind, that is certainly a "First world problem." 

Now I'm trying to decide what type of PM for my tri bike (all this talk here has gotten under my skin - as has thinking about pacing this infernal HIM!).  Stages?  Vector?  Another Quarg?  Arrrrgghhhh!!!!

Matt

My wheels probably would be ok for training, I did use them during that the first year, but think this is a good part of why I use training vs racing as well. Gatorskins on some box wheels and not much to worry about there. I don't seem to have much issue with the horizontal dropout either.

Originally posted by marcag Hey Matt, FYI, since we have established our HR is around the same areas Here is my power/HR from tremblant which I would say was a poorly executed bike Average HR was 140 for the entire ride. A little low. I would have wanted another 10watts or another 3BPM roughly As you can see, HR is a little higher coming off the swim even if power is in the right spot, so expect that Look at the spikes above the 300w line, those were not supposed to be. You can see HR only goes to 150 or so. So try to keep HR in a tight range if you can

This ^^^^ is EXACTLY why I'm shopping for a PM.  Great to see this (for me - I'm sure you weren't excited to see it after the race), and I really appreciate your posting it. 

Even when I keep my HR within really a few beats (i.e., a very tight range), I know that I'm susceptable to power spiking from looking at my data on my road bike rides.  There, I've seen nicely tight HR bands with hundred W excursions - HR just doesn't react quickly enough to ensure no spiking, especially on a hilly ride (like Timberman - eek) - never mind townlines... 

As for TH HR, yes, I think you're right that mine might be a few beats higher than I thought.  It seems to have moved up a bit over the last year - not unexpected, really, just not tested.  I've extrapolated what it is from max efforts at or around 1 hour (read as: open, single sport efforts), so it's likely a touch higher.

You know, if I'd known that this (my first full year of tris) was going to be such a tri-focused season, I'd have just either swapped my PM from my road bike or "found" the money for a PM earlier...  Wish I had, now, as I am kicking myself for not having the data from all my training rides on the Cervelo!!!!

Thanks again.  Super helpful!

Matt

Question for the power-ites....  will also be asking coach but wanted your input as well.  Hopefully this makes sense, I feel like it's not all clear in my head.

In my training, I've been monitoring 4 metrics - elapsed time, HR, NP and 3s power on the 910 (tried doing a scroll but that was way too much info, and it was always the wrong info when I looked at it....).   I have been training in "segments", i.e. 30 minutes at 190, 30 minute climb at 225, descent then flat for 2 hours at 200, and have been hitting the lap button for each segment.  I have Lap NP on another screen and check it occasionally to see how I am doing. 

I only look at VI and IF after the fact, but have not been using it to guide my training rides.  I am not sure which of these are available on the 910, I think IF is.

For Canada, the wide consensus is that patience will be a virtue, and holding back the first 3 hours will be vital to a decent run (as decent as an IM mary can be, I guess).  I've read the Friel "cheating in an IM by looking at IF" article, and wondering about people's thoughts about what I should be looking at in the race, so I can practice the next two weeks.

My plan is to break the ride up into the same segments as in training, so it'll be 40 minutes of warmup/rollers, 30 minute climb, descent, 30 minutes of rollers, etc.   I presume my wattage goals will be similar to training so know what those should be each lap, depending on terrain, guessing overall NP will be 200 ish.  

But is the overall IF number perhaps as important (or more?) as the lap NP or overall NP?   VI?  It's a rolling course in spots and I have difficulty smoothing the VI on that type of terrain as I tend to power up short hills too hard.

I do not intend to have total time on the main screen as I don't really care about that.  HR has been an interesting metric, but I've found that if I am in my zones, the HR just takes care of itself and I rarely look at it. 

I want the screen to be as simple and idiot proof as possible, and know exactly what I need to know by a glance.  Thoughts or dieas as to what metrics to follow for race day?  3s power, NP and IF?

That is HILARIOUS!