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SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED (Page 48)
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 2009-12-29 12:23 PM in reply to: #2582206 |
Champion  9060    Charlottesville, Virginia |  Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSEDSo just got back from my Bike V02 test. I seem to be leaking power somewhere. I know I have it in me just doesn't always seem to be able to transfer from my body to my pedals. He said most of the numbers were good but not living up to my potential. Funny, I lost over 30lbs and all anyone does is tell me how much skinnier I am. My coach today told me I could stand to lose some weight off my frame and it would help with some of the numbers. Going to shoot for 160 I guess, haven't been that weight in a looong time. |
| 2009-12-29 12:29 PM in reply to: #2555972 |
Extreme Veteran 310 Colorado Springs | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED Great swim discussions. My question is, when you are counting strokes, are you counting one arms rotation or both? Also, what is considered a "good" stroke count?
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| 2009-12-29 12:29 PM in reply to: #2582195 |
Champion 7163 Verona WI--Ironman Bike Country! | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED Redknight - 2009-12-29 12:13 PM I haven't seen a first time wave at any of the races I have been at. They have always been broken down into age groups and the largest group I saw was at the HIM where there were about 300 in a wave. That gave lots of room for those uncomfortable in the swim to be towards the back or off to the side of the wave without being too far back. I think it is especially important for first timers to positon themselves accordingly. Even if a person is a good swiimer the first time out in OWS in a large group can be intimidating. Personally, I like the idea of a beginner or first timer wave. I have never done a race with one, but definitely would have used it. If they had one at IM WI, I would seed myself there ASAP! Of course, instead I can start with 2,399 other people of varying abilities and get the crap kicked out me. A few RD's have weighed in that they don't like them because they are risky and require kayakers to potentially save a lot of people, but that seems a little far fetched. How many new people are actually in need of saving? |
| 2009-12-29 12:32 PM in reply to: #2555972 |
Master 1952  Guelph, Ontario | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED Hi Trina. I agree with what basically everyone has said her but just to be sure .... Form and technique are everything in swimming. If you don't have good technique you can flail around and just tire yourself out without making much progress. There are some very good videos out there which can help you with your techniques. I bought one which was availabel through BT and it helped significantly. Once I worked on that for a while I picked up a swim coach for a short session and things went great from there. I continue to work on technique only at least one session per week. Edited by Redknight 2009-12-29 12:37 PM |
| 2009-12-29 12:32 PM in reply to: #2555972 |
Expert 801 Oklahoma City | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED Tony - Thanks for telling me your story. I know I suck supremely. I guess I just needed input from you all on how you broke-through the sucky swim technique stage. It sucks being here. Knowing one sucks and continues to train while sucking is so hard mentally and physically. Has there ever been anybody who just couldn't get their technique down? Will a good coach be able to break my sucky breathing habits/form and put me on the path to swimming greatness? Also, I know that swimming is all about technique, but doesn't one have to build endurance in swimming just as they would running? Am I delusional in thinking that being able to swim 75-100 m (without resting) only three weeks in is decent? I need to find a good coach. Will post inquiry on Oklahoma message board. |
| 2009-12-29 12:34 PM in reply to: #2582216 |
Expert 1027 | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED dalessit - 2009-12-29 12:23 PM So just got back from my Bike V02 test. I seem to be leaking power somewhere. I know I have it in me just doesn't always seem to be able to transfer from my body to my pedals. He said most of the numbers were good but not living up to my potential. Funny, I lost over 30lbs and all anyone does is tell me how much skinnier I am. My coach today told me I could stand to lose some weight off my frame and it would help with some of the numbers. Going to shoot for 160 I guess, haven't been that weight in a looong time. What numbers did you get back? I am thinking about going in for a V02 when I get my PT wheel in and being able to relate all the info together, but I also think that I should spring to get properly fitted first, I have been toying with it and I am getting closer, but I would rather get the opinion of someone else and hopefully they can get me more comfortable on the Adamo, the Arione Tri 2 wrecked me, the Adamo is better and I am finally starting to build up some toughness on my sit bones, but its not quite tweaked right. I have had a few rough weeks of eatting and packed on a few more pounds, although not as many as I had anticipated, can probably count them on one hand. I hope to get down to 160 as well, I think I would be extremely lean at 155. Last Christmas I was mid-high 180s, and started my season around 183, I was 167 this morning, with my lowest recent weight being a few weeks back at about 164. Good luck with your weight loss, how much are you looking at dropping? |
| 2009-12-29 12:36 PM in reply to: #2582231 |
Master 1952 Guelph, Ontario | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED AF_SGT - 2009-12-29 1:29 PM Great swim discussions. My question is, when you are counting strokes, are you counting one arms rotation or both? Also, what is considered a "good" stroke count?
I count both strokes and in our club we figure about 18 strokes for 25 m for guys and about 21 for women is a very good stroke count. The average would probaby be higher than that though. i have to be swimming at my best to do those stroeks. I am more around 20 |
| 2009-12-29 12:36 PM in reply to: #2582167 |
Champion 6973 marietta | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED kickitinok - 2009-12-29 12:05 PM Thanks for the input, guys. I know my technique is just horrible right now. I can't seem to get my breathing down...I slightly pull my head up out of the water then turn it to the side when I breath. Slows me way down, and I have the worst neckache afterward. I have no idea how my stroke looks, I know I'm a little low in the water, my kicks are pretty good but become spastic when I'm tired. I hired the kid to show me technique, not to say "you've really got to want this. you need to be swimming 500 yards without quitting. you need to push yourself." Uhm....I'm a newbie? I just started three weeks ago? I"m pushing myself as hard as I can? Hello? Definitely going to get a different coach. It's so disheartening to be talked to like that. Especially by a 19 year old. I wish I could ground him. Thanks for the input everyone. as usual some good advice from the crew. just one thing in case you missed it on a previous page, Robert (Trifrog93) is a swim coach and Linda (Havin'Fun) kinda knows what she's doing too. maybe ping them on the side or up here on the MG if you have specifics you think they can help with.... i bet they can ;-) |
| 2009-12-29 12:37 PM in reply to: #2582167 |
Expert 945 Auburn AL | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED kickitinok - 2009-12-29 12:05 PM Thanks for the input, guys. I know my technique is just horrible right now. I can't seem to get my breathing down...I slightly pull my head up out of the water then turn it to the side when I breath. Slows me way down, and I have the worst neckache afterward. I have no idea how my stroke looks, I know I'm a little low in the water, my kicks are pretty good but become spastic when I'm tired. I hired the kid to show me technique, not to say "you've really got to want this. you need to be swimming 500 yards without quitting. you need to push yourself." Uhm....I'm a newbie? I just started three weeks ago? I"m pushing myself as hard as I can? Hello? Definitely going to get a different coach. It's so disheartening to be talked to like that. Especially by a 19 year old. I wish I could ground him. Thanks for the input everyone. I was right where you are a year ago...just starting to learn how to "swim". I got the TI book and DVD which helped me learn some techniques that really are economical. I can swim much easier now freestyle than breast. Look at the video that trevor linked yesterday. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJpFVvho0o4 The 2 beat kick is the key for me. If you want I will send you the TI book for you to read and the DVD if I can find them. Let me know. |
| 2009-12-29 12:40 PM in reply to: #2582241 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED kickitinok - 2009-12-29 1:32 PM Tony - Thanks for telling me your story. I know I suck supremely. I guess I just needed input from you all on how you broke-through the sucky swim technique stage. It sucks being here. Knowing one sucks and continues to train while sucking is so hard mentally and physically. Has there ever been anybody who just couldn't get their technique down? Will a good coach be able to break my sucky breathing habits/form and put me on the path to swimming greatness? Also, I know that swimming is all about technique, but doesn't one have to build endurance in swimming just as they would running? Am I delusional in thinking that being able to swim 75-100 m (without resting) only three weeks in is decent? I need to find a good coach. Will post inquiry on Oklahoma message board. haha I still suck at swimming. I think there are very few people that can pick it up at an advanced age (older than 10) if the haven't been doing it since they were a kid. We can all get faster but tough to get as fast as the fishies. For me to get my speed up it was a combination of two things 1. Coaching and 2. a lot more time in the pool Coaching will get you the technique you need and time in the pool will help you develop that technique and be able to maintain it for much longer periods. My "breakthrough" (less than 2:00/100's) came from really ramping up my time in the pool. These days I am more comfortable with my swim times. If I can keep it MOP on the swim I know my bike will help me catch back up, then it all comes down to my run. Don't worry it will come to you. You might not ever be "fast" but you will get better. |
| 2009-12-29 12:50 PM in reply to: #2582251 |
Champion 9060 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED jvanis - 2009-12-29 1:34 PM dalessit - 2009-12-29 12:23 PM So just got back from my Bike V02 test. I seem to be leaking power somewhere. I know I have it in me just doesn't always seem to be able to transfer from my body to my pedals. He said most of the numbers were good but not living up to my potential. Funny, I lost over 30lbs and all anyone does is tell me how much skinnier I am. My coach today told me I could stand to lose some weight off my frame and it would help with some of the numbers. Going to shoot for 160 I guess, haven't been that weight in a looong time. What numbers did you get back? I am thinking about going in for a V02 when I get my PT wheel in and being able to relate all the info together, but I also think that I should spring to get properly fitted first, I have been toying with it and I am getting closer, but I would rather get the opinion of someone else and hopefully they can get me more comfortable on the Adamo, the Arione Tri 2 wrecked me, the Adamo is better and I am finally starting to build up some toughness on my sit bones, but its not quite tweaked right. I have had a few rough weeks of eatting and packed on a few more pounds, although not as many as I had anticipated, can probably count them on one hand. I hope to get down to 160 as well, I think I would be extremely lean at 155. Last Christmas I was mid-high 180s, and started my season around 183, I was 167 this morning, with my lowest recent weight being a few weeks back at about 164. Good luck with your weight loss, how much are you looking at dropping? I think these are the relevant numbers Watts @LT 240 Watts @V02Max 320 %max 75% V02/kg (ml/min) @LT 40.16 V02/kg (ml/min) @ V02Max 47.20 %max 85% He said the 47 was a good number for the off season but would obviously go up if I lost some more weight. He also did say my HR zones were kind of low based on the other performance with my Zone 4 from 140-152 but TBH I never ever look at my HR on the bike, only watts. I am going to do some more reading on what here is the scientific part vs. what is my part. Meaning that I think I have a strong self preservation whatever and my mind tells my body, this is in a lab, it's not real competition, shut it down. VS. When racing I think my body lets me go much harder. When I used to play soccer I could never run anyone down in practice but in a game I could catch just about anyone on the field. I can't fake the scientific part, it is what it is, so want to do some more digging. He did give me a hard time when he asked what I was using for my HR zones. I told him 120 or something minus age, he said you mean 180, I said yeah whatever. He asked how in this day and age I could be using those numbers. I said that when I did them I would go out and run. When I felt like I was really working I would look at my HR monitor and yep, Z4, when I was close to burning up, yep, deep in zone 5. So why not just use those numbers? |
| 2009-12-29 1:34 PM in reply to: #2582186 |
Elite 4108 Calgary,AB,Canada | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED SSMinnow - 2009-12-29 11:10 AM THANK YOU for all the great advice for my friend Todd. I sent him an email a few minutes ago (hoping he rememers last night) and told him for the month of January to get on his TM and walk 3.1 miles three times a week, not to be concerned about time, but write down how long it took him to do it each time and email it to me weekly. My goal is to help him build up some stamina and confidence before putting the hammer down! (Not really, that part was for Trevor  ). Then I plan to send him a modified walk/run plan for February moving forward, while adding bike and swim stuff starting in April. Hope I can keep him motivated!Tonight is our Badger Football party at the house. Been cooking up a storm again, but having fun. It was 1F when I woke up so off I went to the basement for another fun filled CT ride! I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier Suz. He was saying he wanted you to be his "Jillian". I have an idea that could keep him going. 2 words. Those who don't know these 2 words can hit up COJ to find out what I mean -- PACE BOOTY Edited by TrevorC 2009-12-29 1:35 PM |
| 2009-12-29 2:09 PM in reply to: #2582312 |
Expert 1027 | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED I think these are the relevant numbers Watts @LT 240 Watts @V02Max 320 %max 75% V02/kg (ml/min) @LT 40.16 V02/kg (ml/min) @ V02Max 47.20 %max 85% He said the 47 was a good number for the off season but would obviously go up if I lost some more weight. He also did say my HR zones were kind of low based on the other performance with my Zone 4 from 140-152 but TBH I never ever look at my HR on the bike, only watts. I am going to do some more reading on what here is the scientific part vs. what is my part. Meaning that I think I have a strong self preservation whatever and my mind tells my body, this is in a lab, it's not real competition, shut it down. VS. When racing I think my body lets me go much harder. When I used to play soccer I could never run anyone down in practice but in a game I could catch just about anyone on the field. I can't fake the scientific part, it is what it is, so want to do some more digging. He did give me a hard time when he asked what I was using for my HR zones. I told him 120 or something minus age, he said you mean 180, I said yeah whatever. He asked how in this day and age I could be using those numbers. I said that when I did them I would go out and run. When I felt like I was really working I would look at my HR monitor and yep, Z4, when I was close to burning up, yep, deep in zone 5. So why not just use those numbers? Very nice. While I have a good understanding what Watts at LT means, I would be interested to know how it relates to critical power etc. I would assume that Watts at LT = Threshold power. I spent some time today mixing together a workout plan (based on the 21 week Oly 1 race plan) But swapping the bikes out with Jorge's Winter routine. Hopefully will iron details out on my PT and it will be here within a couple of weeks. |
| 2009-12-29 2:12 PM in reply to: #2582241 |
Extreme Veteran 416 Raleigh, NC | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED kickitinok - 2009-12-29 1:32 PM Tony - Thanks for telling me your story. I know I suck supremely. I guess I just needed input from you all on how you broke-through the sucky swim technique stage. It sucks being here. Knowing one sucks and continues to train while sucking is so hard mentally and physically. Has there ever been anybody who just couldn't get their technique down? Will a good coach be able to break my sucky breathing habits/form and put me on the path to swimming greatness? Also, I know that swimming is all about technique, but doesn't one have to build endurance in swimming just as they would running? Am I delusional in thinking that being able to swim 75-100 m (without resting) only three weeks in is decent? I need to find a good coach. Will post inquiry on Oklahoma message board. I feel your pain! I just learned to swim properly this past Spring. By properly I mean, not the doggie paddle. I literally spent every morning in my community pool just getting used to the water, getting used to breathing, getting balanced etc. I watched the Total immersion DVD to just see what a proper stroke should look like. I then watched a ton of online videos to see different schools of thought on stroke and then just practiced. I used this plan to get my swim endurance up: http://ruthkazez.com/ZeroTo1mile.htmland by mid summer I swan (slowly) in a mile open water race! I am still painfully slow, which is what I am working on this winter. I took a swim clinic in November which really helped, I was filmed and was able to see how ugly my stroke is! But the coach gave me great pointers and I work on them one by one, for instance I just become comfortable with bilateral breathing-little victories! I will probably seek out some one on one sessions to fine tune my stroke a bit better. So I wanted to let you know that it can be done! I do think you need a better swim coach, maybe someone who has taught adults. But I also think spending time in the pool on your own will help you feel more comfortable. One final thought, I became way tired and found I needed to breathe more often (unilateral) in the beginning. This may help with you feeling less tired. Good luck and keep swimming! Jennifer |
| 2009-12-29 2:28 PM in reply to: #2581450 |
Elite 3072 san francisco | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED dalessit - 2009-12-29 4:50 AM ^^That was me BTW^^ That might be it, Tony, because I did install the "serial adapter" thing at the prompt and still no communication. maybe they will give us a discount if we buy two? I know the seller was running windows XP and it worked no problem. Thank you, I was thinking I was having another ridiculous computer numbskull moment (could still be the case, but that makes sense, I'm not home now, so I will check the adapter that's on there when I get home) I did go to the link you sent, Lisa, and I did the install as it instructed, still no communication, which leads me to believe it is the adapter. Suzy, thanks, I might just call you anyway...just because! 2:20 on the trainer this morning went pretty darn well...it always takes me awhile to get warmed up, but once my body knows it's stuck on there, it just settles in. I had 3 different 20 minute Zone 3 intervals and they were HARD! I am never going to catch up with this thread today...the office is hopping crazy today! |
| 2009-12-29 3:05 PM in reply to: #2582167 |
Champion 5522 Frisco, TX | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED kickitinok - 2009-12-29 12:05 PM Thanks for the input, guys. I know my technique is just horrible right now. I can't seem to get my breathing down...I slightly pull my head up out of the water then turn it to the side when I breath. Slows me way down, and I have the worst neckache afterward. I have no idea how my stroke looks, I know I'm a little low in the water, my kicks are pretty good but become spastic when I'm tired. I hired the kid to show me technique, not to say "you've really got to want this. you need to be swimming 500 yards without quitting. you need to push yourself." Uhm....I'm a newbie? I just started three weeks ago? I"m pushing myself as hard as I can? Hello? Definitely going to get a different coach. It's so disheartening to be talked to like that. Especially by a 19 year old. I wish I could ground him. Thanks for the input everyone. Get a different coach - 'nuff said - check out TriOKC - I bet they know someone... |
| 2009-12-29 3:09 PM in reply to: #2582241 |
Champion 5522 Frisco, TX | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED kickitinok - 2009-12-29 12:32 PM Tony - Thanks for telling me your story. I know I suck supremely. I guess I just needed input from you all on how you broke-through the sucky swim technique stage. It sucks being here. Knowing one sucks and continues to train while sucking is so hard mentally and physically. Has there ever been anybody who just couldn't get their technique down? Will a good coach be able to break my sucky breathing habits/form and put me on the path to swimming greatness? Also, I know that swimming is all about technique, but doesn't one have to build endurance in swimming just as they would running? Am I delusional in thinking that being able to swim 75-100 m (without resting) only three weeks in is decent? I need to find a good coach. Will post inquiry on Oklahoma message board. Trina - are your muscles tired or are you gassed and can't breathe? If your arms are tired, then yes it will take a while to build up to that level. If you are gassed and out of breath, then it has to do with your technique - most likely your breathing pattern... If you are not constantly exhaling while your face is down in the water (you remember - like blowing bubble from our childhhood swim lessons), then you are not going to get a lung full of air when you rotate to breath, there simply isn't time to exhale and inhale both during that movement... This is what kicked me over from 50 yds to swimming 300-400 with no problem... |
| 2009-12-29 4:27 PM in reply to: #2582612 |
Champion 7163 Verona WI--Ironman Bike Country! | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED Yes Trina you are delusional to think you can swim 75 yards after only three weeks. I'm kidding, but only sort of...swimming is by far the most technique driven sport I have ever tried to master. Andy's comment below might help, but I have to believe that a large part if your form. Your gassed because you are working so hard to get your head out of the water to breathe. When you do that your legs sink so you kick harder to regain balance. Those legs have a lot of muscles so they are oxygen suckers.....trust the few of us in this group who have struggled signficantly. Do you need to build up endurance? sure, but don't build distance until you have the form. Breaking old bad habits is tough. I think reviewing Barry's TI DVD is a fine approach while you find yourself a quality coach. Maybe pick one thing and work on only that one thing for the entire workout. My latest coach had me do nothing but press my chest into the water and catch up drill for a month to get my balance....I swam 1000s of yards and that was all I got to do. At the beginning I was mad and frustrated, but you know what after those 1000s of yards I got balance. From there I got to move onto the next thing and the next thing.....it seems never ending. My guess is you will catch on very quickly once you get those couple things mastered. Get excited to find that coach and get started. Now everyday I go to the pool, I am 100% ok to be there. Sorry for the run on paragraph..I have a lot of passion to get people over the swimming hurdle because if I can learn anyone can. Suzy ashort33 - 2009-12-29 3:09 PM kickitinok - 2009-12-29 12:32 PM Tony - Thanks for telling me your story. I know I suck supremely. I guess I just needed input from you all on how you broke-through the sucky swim technique stage. It sucks being here. Knowing one sucks and continues to train while sucking is so hard mentally and physically. Has there ever been anybody who just couldn't get their technique down? Will a good coach be able to break my sucky breathing habits/form and put me on the path to swimming greatness? Also, I know that swimming is all about technique, but doesn't one have to build endurance in swimming just as they would running? Am I delusional in thinking that being able to swim 75-100 m (without resting) only three weeks in is decent? I need to find a good coach. Will post inquiry on Oklahoma message board. Trina - are your muscles tired or are you gassed and can't breathe? If your arms are tired, then yes it will take a while to build up to that level. If you are gassed and out of breath, then it has to do with your technique - most likely your breathing pattern... If you are not constantly exhaling while your face is down in the water (you remember - like blowing bubble from our childhhood swim lessons), then you are not going to get a lung full of air when you rotate to breath, there simply isn't time to exhale and inhale both during that movement... This is what kicked me over from 50 yds to swimming 300-400 with no problem... |
| 2009-12-29 4:34 PM in reply to: #2582312 |
Champion 7163 Verona WI--Ironman Bike Country! | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED Hey Tony I understand why you would want to know your FTP, but what does the VO2 stuff do for you? Like how does it change you training? Also curious how did your coach run the test? was blood taken? how lon was it? was it on a course? I haven't done a TT since my stress fracture, but know it won't be long before I do. Suzy dalessit - 2009-12-29 12:50 PM jvanis - 2009-12-29 1:34 PM dalessit - 2009-12-29 12:23 PM So just got back from my Bike V02 test. I seem to be leaking power somewhere. I know I have it in me just doesn't always seem to be able to transfer from my body to my pedals. He said most of the numbers were good but not living up to my potential. Funny, I lost over 30lbs and all anyone does is tell me how much skinnier I am. My coach today told me I could stand to lose some weight off my frame and it would help with some of the numbers. Going to shoot for 160 I guess, haven't been that weight in a looong time. What numbers did you get back? I am thinking about going in for a V02 when I get my PT wheel in and being able to relate all the info together, but I also think that I should spring to get properly fitted first, I have been toying with it and I am getting closer, but I would rather get the opinion of someone else and hopefully they can get me more comfortable on the Adamo, the Arione Tri 2 wrecked me, the Adamo is better and I am finally starting to build up some toughness on my sit bones, but its not quite tweaked right. I have had a few rough weeks of eatting and packed on a few more pounds, although not as many as I had anticipated, can probably count them on one hand. I hope to get down to 160 as well, I think I would be extremely lean at 155. Last Christmas I was mid-high 180s, and started my season around 183, I was 167 this morning, with my lowest recent weight being a few weeks back at about 164. Good luck with your weight loss, how much are you looking at dropping? I think these are the relevant numbers Watts @LT 240 Watts @V02Max 320 %max 75% V02/kg (ml/min) @LT 40.16 V02/kg (ml/min) @ V02Max 47.20 %max 85% He said the 47 was a good number for the off season but would obviously go up if I lost some more weight. He also did say my HR zones were kind of low based on the other performance with my Zone 4 from 140-152 but TBH I never ever look at my HR on the bike, only watts. I am going to do some more reading on what here is the scientific part vs. what is my part. Meaning that I think I have a strong self preservation whatever and my mind tells my body, this is in a lab, it's not real competition, shut it down. VS. When racing I think my body lets me go much harder. When I used to play soccer I could never run anyone down in practice but in a game I could catch just about anyone on the field. I can't fake the scientific part, it is what it is, so want to do some more digging. He did give me a hard time when he asked what I was using for my HR zones. I told him 120 or something minus age, he said you mean 180, I said yeah whatever. He asked how in this day and age I could be using those numbers. I said that when I did them I would go out and run. When I felt like I was really working I would look at my HR monitor and yep, Z4, when I was close to burning up, yep, deep in zone 5. So why not just use those numbers? |
| 2009-12-29 4:54 PM in reply to: #2555972 |
Extreme Veteran 310 Colorado Springs | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED Preface**I was a swimmer when I was a teenager (20 yrs ago)** |
| 2009-12-29 5:20 PM in reply to: #2582030 |
Pro 4100 Wherever the trail takes me, WA. | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED kickitinok - 2009-12-29 9:09 AM Will do, Andy. Also going to go ahead and post it on my blog so people can just click on my name and see my story. Swim question: I've been swimming for about three weeks. My swim coach (who is 19 and kind of an air head) thinks I should be able to swim 500 yards *without stopping to rest* right now. I told him that I'm using swimplan.com, and that it has me resting for 10 seconds every 50 yards, 100 yards, etc. I printed a copy for him and he dismissed it as being rubbish. So....I'm confused. Whenever one starts swimming, with zero swimming background, is it not usual for that person to have to rest quite frequently until they build-up their endurance? He acts like 500 yards is nothing. I can barely get through 75 yards without resting for 10-15 seconds. I am just really in that bad of shape, or are his expectations too high? (He's not an tri coach. I hired him to teach me technique - He's never been in a tri.) Feedback? Comments? Trina---- DUMP HIM! He might be a good swimmer, but he is clueless. I remember being 19 and invincible at that age! To play on words---- A "TRI COACH" is not what you want. You want a swim coach. Tell him you hired him to help you with YOUR STROKE! Not your endurance! BIG DIFFERENCE THERE! |
| 2009-12-29 5:22 PM in reply to: #2582841 |
Expert 1010 Greer, SC | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED swbkrun - 2009-12-29 6:20 PM kickitinok - 2009-12-29 9:09 AM Will do, Andy. Also going to go ahead and post it on my blog so people can just click on my name and see my story. Swim question: I've been swimming for about three weeks. My swim coach (who is 19 and kind of an air head) thinks I should be able to swim 500 yards *without stopping to rest* right now. I told him that I'm using swimplan.com, and that it has me resting for 10 seconds every 50 yards, 100 yards, etc. I printed a copy for him and he dismissed it as being rubbish. So....I'm confused. Whenever one starts swimming, with zero swimming background, is it not usual for that person to have to rest quite frequently until they build-up their endurance? He acts like 500 yards is nothing. I can barely get through 75 yards without resting for 10-15 seconds. I am just really in that bad of shape, or are his expectations too high? (He's not an tri coach. I hired him to teach me technique - He's never been in a tri.) Feedback? Comments? Trina---- DUMP HIM! He might be a good swimmer, but he is clueless. I remember being 19 and invincible at that age! To play on words---- A "TRI COACH" is not what you want. You want a swim coach. Tell him you hired him to help you with YOUR STROKE! Not your endurance! BIG DIFFERENCE THERE! ^^^^ x1000000000000 Couldn't have said it better myself. |
| 2009-12-29 5:29 PM in reply to: #2581432 |
Expert 1010 Greer, SC | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED (but maybe some more?) DougRob - 2009-12-29 7:17 AM SSMinnow - 2009-12-29 7:03 AM You can thank me later for digging through all the pages to find the list Birdy put together. My advice is put your name in the list if you are comfortable doing so and that can act as the master for those of us with bad short term memory .swbkrun - 2009-12-14 12:28 PM Ok.... Here is the list that I have: *swbkrun- Steve Bio on page 1 *TrevorC- Trevor Bio on page 1 *Ashort33- Andy Bio on page 2 Gdale- George Bio on page 4 *Dalessit- Tony Bio on page 2 *Fattyfatfat- John Bio on page 1 *BigReub- Reuben Bio on page 1 *SSMinnow- Suzy Bio on page 1 Monicamm68- Monica Bio on page 1 Trysprintoly-Jenna Bio on page 2 *Sdalessio-Sam Bio on page 1 *Dougrob- Doug Bio on page 1 *Redknight- Rob Bio on page 1 Sarahswhere- Sarah Bio on page 2 *Trying1- Stan Bio on page 1 *PlainsmanAu- Barry Bio on page 2 *RoniS- Roni Bio on page 2 Gslye- Gary Bio on page 2 Losta- Lisa Bio on page 3 Badgerintx- Dave Bio on page 3 Icky43- Ben Gdctex- Glen Bio on page 8 Imhusker- Trey Bio on page 3 Terps421- Linda Bio on page 4 Tri-Chic- Kelly Bio on page 3 Trifrog93- Robert Bio on page 8 Erlifeguard- Chris Bio on page 3 Toby91- William Bio on page 3 *Tahrens- Tracy Bio on page 3 AF-SGT- "SARGE" Paul Jrj0924- Jennifer Bio on page 4 *Soccermom15- Janet Bio on page 4 Workerbee- Krista Bio on page 4 *Jhagerman- Jeremy Bio on page 5 *KT65- Kim Bio on page 7 * dbw27 - Dannette Happychick - Michelle Bio on page 7 kkcbelle - Kyla Bio on page 6 CyborgQueen - DJ Bio on page 4 tgermsheid - Trevor Bio on page 4 * Havin' Fun - Linda * Ryanp100 - Ryan Reno8 - Steve Bio on page 5 jvanis - Jeff Bio on page 8 Kickitinok - ? bethpaultx - ? * Jeepguy2358 - Bio on page 22 *= People that have been in previous mentor groups Thanks Suzy, and fixed that for you. I added Bio page numbers where I could find them (I only went through the 1st 31 pages). Some people's bio's I could not find and some people I do not see their names. Fill in what is missing if you do not see your data here. Doug Thanks Doug. I was trying to figure out where I had been for the past year (according to Suzy's list)? I thought I was in Birdy's group for almost all of 2009. Maybe I just didn't contribute enough? or maybe it's because I can't go to Lonestar? -Chris (Jeepguy) |
| 2009-12-29 6:00 PM in reply to: #2582268 |
Master 2501 | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED Plainsman AU - 2009-12-29 12:37 PM kickitinok - 2009-12-29 12:05 PM Thanks for the input, guys. I know my technique is just horrible right now. I can't seem to get my breathing down...I slightly pull my head up out of the water then turn it to the side when I breath. Slows me way down, and I have the worst neckache afterward. I have no idea how my stroke looks, I know I'm a little low in the water, my kicks are pretty good but become spastic when I'm tired. I hired the kid to show me technique, not to say "you've really got to want this. you need to be swimming 500 yards without quitting. you need to push yourself." Uhm....I'm a newbie? I just started three weeks ago? I"m pushing myself as hard as I can? Hello? Definitely going to get a different coach. It's so disheartening to be talked to like that. Especially by a 19 year old. I wish I could ground him. Thanks for the input everyone. I was right where you are a year ago...just starting to learn how to "swim". I got the TI book and DVD which helped me learn some techniques that really are economical. I can swim much easier now freestyle than breast. Look at the video that trevor linked yesterday. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJpFVvho0o4 The 2 beat kick is the key for me. If you want I will send you the TI book for you to read and the DVD if I can find them. Let me know. I find that most non-swimmers I swim with kick A LOT... and this (for me) wastes tons of energy. If you can keep your legs afloat with a 2- or 4-beat kick, I think most people are better off. It's certainly a better technique for endurance purposes. If you watch the 1500M race at the Olympics (or such) you'll notice most swimmers don't kick much at all, with the exception of in and out of turns and the last 100M or so. I read someone here once describing form as like a skewer, with your torso rotating back and forth. I thought that was a good image and something to keep in mind, especially early in the stroke so you get a good reach out during/after the entry. Teaching technique is hard for me to do as it comes so naturally for me. For you, Trina, to work on breathing, you might practice taking the stroke out of it and just work against a wall or holding a kickboard out in front and practice turning your head from side to side. Sounds simple, but I also see many non-swimmers lift their head and sort-of look forward and turn their head while it's outside of the water, which is ineffecient. Your head should stay in the water and think about keeping part of your face buried and simply turning your head. Try it on both sides and see if one feels better than another. I always breathe to both sides, but there is definitely one side that my body favors (left). Dunno if that helps at all... Something else to try is to swim with fins. This can help propel you forward while you work on stroke technique (and again, work on potentially LESS kicking to conserve energy). |
| 2009-12-29 6:15 PM in reply to: #2582781 |
Master 2501 | Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED AF_SGT - 2009-12-29 4:54 PM Preface**I was a swimmer when I was a teenager (20 yrs ago)** Swimmer here, too -- last REAL competition was college (20 years ago). Unlike you, I was a distance swimmer, so could never churn out the speed but could find a pace and hold it forever. I'd say if you have the technique, you will increase endurance by time in the pool and longer workouts and long sets (like 300's, up to 600's or higher). For me it takes about 3 weeks of consistent pool time (2-3x a week) to get to a decent "base" pace. To improve much from there I'd need 5-6x in the pool a week and even then the improvement would be incremental, so it's not really worth it at this point. When I'm out of shape, I can hold decent 100 times for awhile (with 10-15 sec. rest), but swimming 200's or 300's, it's really tough to hang on!! Some fun ideas for sets... Try something like 4x or 8x200 where you go 50 hard/150 easy, 50 easy/50 hard/100 easy, 150 easy/50 hard, 200 hard. Or go 150 easy/50 hard, 100 easy/100 hard, 50 easy/150 hard, 200 hard (or reverse it and put the hard at the beginning so you are fresh for each hard part of the next 200; or do the first 4 the first way and the 2nd 4 the second way... play around with it so you don't get bored). You can do these sets with 300's (by 75) or 400's (by 100), etc. You get the idea. When you end up doing hard 200's (or longer), think about going out strong but not killing yourself. My typical 200 race strategy was to go out hard but not all out, really push the 3rd 50, and bring it home strong. Like with running, to go longer you'll need to slow it down a bit. And then if you have more in the tank, bring it out at the end. It's swimming with patience, which if you were a sprinter might be a different way of thinking! |
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