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2012-08-30 5:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
Fred D - 2012-08-30 6:38 PM So since a few days before the start of my race the top of my left foot (lateral) has been sore. I tried to run on it this week, but probably need a break. Usually sore after a run but not during.My suspicion is a bit of tendonitis, but not sure....

That is usually a dead-giveaway for tendinosis for me. Ice cup it a couple of times per day.



Edited by TankBoy 2012-08-30 5:54 PM


2012-08-30 5:52 PM
in reply to: #4388682

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
Jason - I probably only average 3 runs per week. The structure of each week is determined by the block I am in, but as a gross over-generalization the three runs during a LT block might be something like 1) some kind of harder, shorter intervals (i.e.: track), 2) tempo/progressions, 3)Long endurance/steady state - paced run. On a side note, for running I don't use Z1-Z5 - I instead use a set of overlapping HR zones, and I run soft surfaces/trails as much as possible.
2012-08-30 5:53 PM
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2012-08-30 6:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
Fred D - 2012-08-30 6:53 PM
TankBoy - 2012-08-30 6:46 PM
Fred D - 2012-08-30 6:38 PM So since a few days before the start of my race the top of my left foot (lateral) has been sore. I tried to run on it this week, but probably need a break. Usually sore after a run but not during.My suspicion is a bit of tendonitis, but not sure....

That is usually a dead-giveaway for tendinosis for me. Ice cup it a couple of times per day.

Am doing so right now.

Ice water bucket.

Try an ice cup when you get a chance: Fill a dixie cup with water, freeze it, tear the cup down past the top of the ice, hold it with a towel, and dig around on the offending tendons. Recommended by my doc years ago (way back when I was your age and also started having tendinosis/tendinitis issues ) It is like an ice massage - you can really get the cold to the hurt.

I have found Dora the Explorer cups to work best.

2012-08-30 8:56 PM
in reply to: #4333512

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

For what it's worth one of the guys from the LRS wraps his calves after every run.  Sticks an ice compression pack and holds it in place with tensor bandages.  Since seeing him do this I've done it after long runs since my calves have been sore all year, and it really made a difference.  (I just sit on the couch with an ice pack and towel for 10 minutes). 

I know it's not the same thing you're dealing with, but I hadn't realized just how much benefit a bit of cold would have in just a short amount of time.

2012-08-31 7:41 AM
in reply to: #4388813

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
tri808 - 2012-08-30 5:24 PM
GoFaster - 2012-08-30 11:04 AM

Thanks Jason.  To qualify this a little bit (which means making you write more).  What would your average ride times look like for each of the days, and how would you quantify those zones compared to power %?

i.e.
Z1 = below 75%
Z2 = 80-84%
Z3 = 85-89%
Z4 = 90-94%
Z5 = 95-99%

I'm just making these up as an example.  I'm curious how you would define the zones.

Thanks

Day 1 and 5 would be 60-70 minutes.  Day 3 (if applicable) would be 50-60 minutes.

Day 2 can be as short as 60 minutes, but I like to throw in some Z2-Z3 work for about 30-40 minutes before I get into the meat of my intervals if possible.

Day 4 is likely going to be around 90 minutes.

Day 6 and 7 are usually in the 3-5 hour range.

I use WKO+ (Coggan) power zones.  I *think* they're something like....

Z1 - 55% and lower
Z2 - 56-75% 
Z3 - 76-90%
Z4 - 91-105%
Z5 - 106-120%

I should also add though that the roads I ride on are often not long stretches.  So my power levels might be on the high side as I do get to recover at stop lights or during group rides when we regroup.  I'm not so concerned about riding steady the whole way.  If I were doing this on a trainer, I would have to lower the power goals a smidge.

Hmmm - I was wondering where the long ride portion was going to fit in.  Days 6 & 7 are simply not possible for me at that distance/time.  1)  The wife will deflate my tires permanently after the first weekend, 2) It's cold in Canada in the winter.

I may be able to squeeze out 2-3 hours once per week on the trainer as the long ride, but 3 hours is as much mental as it is physical in the basement.  I want to try and make sure that the extra training doesn't become a chore.  I've fallen into that trap in the past and when you start dreading workouts it's obviously self defeating.



2012-08-31 9:45 AM
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2012-08-31 10:01 AM
in reply to: #4389614

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
TSimone - 2012-08-31 10:45 AMAnyone racing this weekend?

Not me just some heavy training starting today.
2012-08-31 10:12 AM
in reply to: #4389614

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
TSimone - 2012-08-31 10:45 AMAnyone racing this weekend?

does racing to the beer store count? Several cookouts to attend, but still gonna try to get good SBR in. 4.5 easy hours on the bike scheduled for Sunday.

2012-08-31 11:49 AM
in reply to: #4388953

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
TankBoy - 2012-08-31 7:01 AM
Fred D - 2012-08-30 6:53 PM
TankBoy - 2012-08-30 6:46 PM
Fred D - 2012-08-30 6:38 PM So since a few days before the start of my race the top of my left foot (lateral) has been sore. I tried to run on it this week, but probably need a break. Usually sore after a run but not during.My suspicion is a bit of tendonitis, but not sure....

That is usually a dead-giveaway for tendinosis for me. Ice cup it a couple of times per day.

Am doing so right now.

Ice water bucket.

Try an ice cup when you get a chance: Fill a dixie cup with water, freeze it, tear the cup down past the top of the ice, hold it with a towel, and dig around on the offending tendons. Recommended by my doc years ago (way back when I was your age and also started having tendinosis/tendinitis issues ) It is like an ice massage - you can really get the cold to the hurt.

I have found Dora the Explorer cups to work best.

x2 on the home ice massage--my high school nurse taught it to me, of all people--seems to work better above other methods of applying cold. Hey, placebo is a legitimate effect!

2012-08-31 11:55 AM
in reply to: #4333512

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

More interesting news from IM New Zealand.  This may be some WTC guilt over the race being cancelled / temporarily changed to a half last year.


IRONMAN is offering a special opportunity for athletes interested in being a part of IRONMAN New Zealand, which will celebrate its 30th anniversary in 18 months' time.

All participants in the 2013 Kellogg's Nutri-Grain IRONMAN New Zealand, taking place in Taupo in March, will earn a guaranteed preferred entry period for the 30th anniversary event in 2014.

And, to add to the spirit of celebration, IRONMAN has confirmed the 2014 IRONMAN New Zealand will offer an additional 20 slots to the IRONMAN World Championship.

Ten of these slots will be added to the current allocation, increasing the total number of age group slots to 50.

The other 10 will go into a special "Loyalty Lottery" draw.  It's our way of recognising all the athletes who have supported IRONMAN New Zealand during its 30-year history.  It offers a unique opportunity for athletes to have a better chance to realise their IRONMAN dream of competing in Kona.

All athletes who participate in the 2014 race will be eligible. You will receive one entry into the draw for each one of your IRONMAN New Zealand finishes (including your 2014 finish).  So every finish counts!  As an example, a first-time finisher in 2014 will receive one entry and a 10-time finisher will receive 10 entries.  To accept a slot, athletes must be present for the draw, which will take place at the 2014 IRONMAN New Zealand Awards function.  Standard entry fee and conditions for the IRONMAN World Championship will apply.

IRONMAN will also re-release a limited number of entries to the 2013 IRONMAN New Zealand on Tuesday 4th September at 10am (New Zealand time) on a first-in, first-served basis.  Visit www.ironman.co.nz to secure your entry.

This offer is part of the 30th anniversary celebration of our iconic event and the recognition of support and loyalty shown to IRONMAN New Zealand by our athletes. It is our goal to ensure you are on the start line for the 2013 Kellogg's Nutri-Grain IRONMAN New Zealand!



Edited by spudone 2012-08-31 11:56 AM


2012-08-31 12:11 PM
in reply to: #4389614

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

TSimone - 2012-08-31 3:45 PM Anyone racing this weekend?

Yup, got my first HIM distance on Sunday. Just have to hope all that training has been enough!

2012-08-31 12:26 PM
in reply to: #4389965

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
sicone - 2012-09-01 1:11 AM

TSimone - 2012-08-31 3:45 PM Anyone racing this weekend?

Yup, got my first HIM distance on Sunday. Just have to hope all that training has been enough!

HIM cherry-popping! How exciting! If you can actually write "all that" before training ... it's been enough.

GO STAVROS!

2012-08-31 12:55 PM
in reply to: #4389965

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
sicone - 2012-08-31 1:11 PM

TSimone - 2012-08-31 3:45 PM Anyone racing this weekend?

Yup, got my first HIM distance on Sunday. Just have to hope all that training has been enough!

Awesome Stavros - good luck - you are going to do great! All eyes will be on you this weekend - hopefully you will be finished up just as those of us in North America are waking up. The Wild Boar sounds like my kind of race: 9:30am start and wetsuit REQUIRED. Must be already getting cool there? I have never done a 4-loop bike - that will sure make it spectator friendly! Have fun - you gotta know we will all be rooting (that's a pun!) for you.

2012-08-31 1:12 PM
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2012-08-31 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
sicone - 2012-08-31 1:11 PM

TSimone - 2012-08-31 3:45 PM Anyone racing this weekend?

Yup, got my first HIM distance on Sunday. Just have to hope all that training has been enough!

Good Luck...you will do great!



2012-08-31 1:40 PM
in reply to: #4389614

Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

TSimone - 2012-08-31 4:45 AM Anyone racing this weekend?

Last race of the season for me is a 112 mile road race around Oahu.

On a sad note though, our team's strongest rider (who regularly contends for the overall win) got in a bad accident yesterday.  I don't know all the details, but something like he got run off the road and hit a pole.  A bunch of broken bones and a lacerated lung.  Going to visit him at the hospital after work. 

Ride safe everyone.

2012-08-31 1:41 PM
in reply to: #4390155

Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
rymac - 2012-08-31 8:24 AM
sicone - 2012-08-31 1:11 PM

TSimone - 2012-08-31 3:45 PM Anyone racing this weekend?

Yup, got my first HIM distance on Sunday. Just have to hope all that training has been enough!

Good Luck...you will do great!

x2.  Have fun.

2012-08-31 1:46 PM
in reply to: #4333512

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

Just thought I would provide some takeaways from my HIM racing this year: 

I had 2 races that were both raced in similar weather conditions - 90 and humid (aka major suckage).  The bike courses were complete opposite - one is considered a flatter course and the other was very difficult with lots of hills.  My mind set for the races were completely opposite.  At GR I wanted to be conservative swim-bike and let the run go aggressively.  At MiTi I wanted to be fairly aggresive in all 3 disciplines to see what laying it all out there could do.

At GR I was very conservative on the swim - long smooth stroke and easy kick (34:00).  I came out feeling good and no matches burned.  At MiTi I was aggressive and used a strong kick (37:00 but likely long).  I came out of the water pretty gassed and took me 2 miles on the bike to settle in.

The bike in GR felt comfortably hard (Avg HR:153) and I knew 20 minutes before I came off the bike that I was going to run well (a good feeling!).  But on reflection I wondered if I left some time out there on the bike. At MiTi the course was extremely hilly and tough for my training.  I never really felt good on the bike.  About half way through I knew I needed to back off or I was done for but the hills, heat and headwing kept coming. Hence, even when I told myself to back off I really did not.  (Avg HR: 158 oiy!).  I knew 20 minutes before I got off the bike that I was done for!  Same nutrition plans for both races.

The run in GR was pretty good considering the conditions.  I ran 1:40 and was only passed one time.  Ran my way on to the podium.  At MiTi I was walking in the first 2 miles.  I ran 2:02 and have never felt so dejected.

I thought I could run well just based on my big run base and still put up something respectable...NOT!  I honestly feel that the swim set me up for a miserable day and compounded my issue with a horribly paced bike.  Tough lesson.  Trying to race above your fitness level dont work.

2012-08-31 1:49 PM
in reply to: #4388799

Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
GoFaster - 2012-08-30 11:17 AM
tri808 - 2012-08-30 4:20 PM

So for next year I'm thinking of cutting back on the running, but add a little more intensity.  Focus a little more on swimming where I have a lot of room to gain, and also add a little more biking which is what I enjoy the most.  I'm also hoping to crack the 5 hour mark, so I still want to train in a way that produces the most fruit.

My view on this is that people can be overly cautious with their running - and if I recall correctly you did almost all of your prior running in Z1/2.  This obviously worked for you, but I do think there are additional opportunities/improvements to be had by adding in some intensity.  Whether that intensity outweighs the benefits of the moderately paced extra 1-2 runs, I couldn't say.

And take this with a grain of salt, because I have historically had low run volume, and likely push my pacing a little harder than perhaps I should, but have also been successful so far.  I am really curious what would happen if I went the opposite direction and upped the volume.

One final note on the swim.  I mentioned a couple of pages back that I swam more in the past few months than ever before, and I really think it helped my racing overall.  That said, for the amount of time I put in in the pool I've had very little ROI in terms of speed, even though my stroke has been something I've paid attention to - quite a bit.  We'll see what happens in a week and a half at the HIM, but I don't expect to go much faster than last year (if at all).

Thanks Neil (and Rusty) for your input.  I do agree that most people are (and frankly should be) overly cautious about their running.  Running injuries regularly hamper/end seasons, so there is good reason for it.

You're right that most of my runs were Z1/Z2.  But I think if I can rebuild my base (I haven't run since June) over the fall/winter, I should be fine doing less/more intense running come next spring.  I'm also not the type to force myself to do a prescribed workout, so if my body tells me that I need to run easy, I know I can back off when necessary.

As far as swimming, I agree that the ROI is lower as far as your swim speed or swim split time, but I also agree that it improves your overall racing.  If I can swim just 1 minute faster, but do so expending less energy...I'll see some of those improvements in my bike and run time.

2012-08-31 1:51 PM
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2012-08-31 1:52 PM
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2012-08-31 2:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
sicone - 2012-08-31 2:11 PM

TSimone - 2012-08-31 3:45 PM Anyone racing this weekend?

Yup, got my first HIM distance on Sunday. Just have to hope all that training has been enough!

Good luck, have a fantastic race!!

2012-08-31 2:08 PM
in reply to: #4389614

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

TSimone - 2012-08-31 11:45 AM Anyone racing this weekend?

Not me, if I do any more races this year it will be a duathlon in a couple of weeks that starts about 10 mins from my house.

2012-08-31 3:15 PM
in reply to: #4390202

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
rymac - 2012-08-31 2:46 PM

Just thought I would provide some takeaways from my HIM racing this year: 

I had 2 races that were both raced in similar weather conditions - 90 and humid (aka major suckage).  The bike courses were complete opposite - one is considered a flatter course and the other was very difficult with lots of hills.  My mind set for the races were completely opposite.  At GR I wanted to be conservative swim-bike and let the run go aggressively.  At MiTi I wanted to be fairly aggresive in all 3 disciplines to see what laying it all out there could do.

At GR I was very conservative on the swim - long smooth stroke and easy kick (34:00).  I came out feeling good and no matches burned.  At MiTi I was aggressive and used a strong kick (37:00 but likely long).  I came out of the water pretty gassed and took me 2 miles on the bike to settle in.

The bike in GR felt comfortably hard (Avg HR:153) and I knew 20 minutes before I came off the bike that I was going to run well (a good feeling!).  But on reflection I wondered if I left some time out there on the bike. At MiTi the course was extremely hilly and tough for my training.  I never really felt good on the bike.  About half way through I knew I needed to back off or I was done for but the hills, heat and headwing kept coming. Hence, even when I told myself to back off I really did not.  (Avg HR: 158 oiy!).  I knew 20 minutes before I got off the bike that I was done for!  Same nutrition plans for both races.

The run in GR was pretty good considering the conditions.  I ran 1:40 and was only passed one time.  Ran my way on to the podium.  At MiTi I was walking in the first 2 miles.  I ran 2:02 and have never felt so dejected.

I thought I could run well just based on my big run base and still put up something respectable...NOT!  I honestly feel that the swim set me up for a miserable day and compounded my issue with a horribly paced bike.  Tough lesson.  Trying to race above your fitness level dont work.

Timely post Ryan - thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I have some specific times in mind for the HIM in a weeks time, but have been trying to caution myself that the weather may play a huge factor.  I'll keep your post in mind.

Did a lunch time run today in 95 degrees - I sure hope it's going to cool off before next weekend!

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