SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 57)
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by ChrisM You make sense. Me, on the other hand, I'd go to Kona on a lottery, or a sponsor entry, or any method, frankly. Vegas worlds, not so much (tremblant will be much better) I used to think I'd go to Kona in any way possible too--and I certainly understand why anyone would do that--but after running the numbers on the true cost, I just don't think I could justify it for my family :) I don't know anything about Tremblant. I really should look that up;) |
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![]() Originally posted by bzgl40 Originally posted by TSimone Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Anyone ever done something similar? A spring/summer of tri then a fall marry? I did in 2011 and 2012. Let me first say I was woefully unprepared for the mary each year, so I was pretty miserable. But it was nice to have something on the calendar to shoot for. Honestly, that's the only reason I'm doing the HM in October. Goals and races keep me honest with my eating and training and a fall race keeps me from ballooning up in weight. Well, that's what I tell myself, anyway. I've done it once. Did a spring HIM and a fall marathon. Living in the desert though, knowing what I know now, I'd flip that around. It kind of sucked training for a marathon through the summer living in Tucson. Even getting out there super early didn't help much, and the earlier I went out the more likely I was to get involved with some animal or other... Not quite the same thing for me, but I did a December marathon in 2010 and 2011 after spending June - August mostly on my bike. Looking back on my logs, I ran 80, 57, 24 miles for those months in 2010, then tried to start my marathon training in September (basically 15 weeks). In 2011, same scenario except I only ran 22 miles in June and nothing in July/August. So needless to say, while I was biking a lot, my run base was not that good going in. I felt like my training went well (45-60 mpw), I did a half marathon each year (5 weeks before the marathon) that lead me to believe I could do well in the marathon. But come race day, both were pretty poor performances. I felt like I lacked the sheer volume of total running, not from the 15 week training plan, but just overall volume for the whole year to run to my potential. Hence I skipped the marathon last year, and will do so again this year. If you're maintaining your run volume throughout the year, you should be fine...but I learned my lesson that marathons are WAY more about your total volume over a long period of time (possibly years) and not just the 12-18 week training program. The training program is just the race specific stuff...what you're really going to lean on for a marathon is that huge base you should have built up over time. Edited by Jason N 2013-08-20 6:31 PM |
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![]() Originally posted by switch Originally posted by ChrisM You make sense. Me, on the other hand, I'd go to Kona on a lottery, or a sponsor entry, or any method, frankly. Vegas worlds, not so much (tremblant will be much better) I used to think I'd go to Kona in any way possible too--and I certainly understand why anyone would do that--but after running the numbers on the true cost, I just don't think I could justify it for my family I don't know anything about Tremblant. I really should look that up Not sure if you know this already, but I'm doing Kona this year via the Hawaii State Lottery (Hawaii residents who finished Honu 70.3 were eligible for a separate lottery). But I totally get your view as well. It's actually the total opposite for me because as someone who lives in Hawaii, Kona is the cheapest IM available to me and sort of my "home turf." We also don't have any other IM distance race (WTC or non WTC) that doesn't require a 3k+ mile plane trip. If in an alternate universe...the world championships were rooted in Lake Placid instead of Kona...I'd probably feel the exact same way as you. Especially if Hawaii had a non world championship IM that I could sign up for anytime I wanted to. When I saw my name got picked...I was just happy for the opportunity to do an IM...and that many of my friends and family would be able to make the trip to come cheer me on. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by switch Originally po I don't have Netflix but I can order a movie on you tube or something, I think? I'm kinda clueless here--my husband drives on the rare occasions we do something like that.sted by brigby1 Originally posted by switch Originally posted by brigby1 I don't watch TV, so that's not an option for me. I really like TR, but I've never tried sufferfest or anything like that. Before I did TR I would be ready to ride my bike into the wall after 30 minutes. TR is the freakin best!Originally posted by switch Originally posted by brigby1 You are a sick, sick man. Originally posted by switch So, if you qualify in June or July you race Worlds the September of the same year? Oly AGN to worlds isn't like that. Can you delay a year? I forget the exact cut-off date, but believe it's in August. That might even move around some if they move the event. You can't defer to next year. It's that year or bust. And the last few trainer rides have been kind of fun for me. Need to find a good array of carrots. Is power your favorite flavored carrot? the cut off date is good info--seems like it would be easier to plan for (tickets, accommodations, etc) and train for it with a year, but maybe once you're fit enough to qualify you just try to hold on for that for the next year? I could argue myself in circles on that one. Power is part of it. It helps a lot to have a solid plan for the ride with goals and targets for the various parts. I'm more amazed with how some people stick with it seeing that they just kind of ride along and with their selection of TV shows to do so. Things go by much better when there is something to really go after and the mood of the things you bring in are conducive towards that. And what people do for timing and qualification is very individual. With a big gap, some may take a good deal of time off while others will just keep on going as that is what they want to do. It's more in understanding yourself to figure out what works best for you. Makes sense that timing and race frequency is super personal. I'm kinda thinking 2 HIMS, 2olys. I really prefer the HIM distance, but I don't want to write-off olys yet. if I never do another Sprint, that would be fine. I'm not built to redline like that. The Sufferfest vids will be kind of like some of the TrainerRoad workouts, TR actually works with them to sync up the rides. They'll just have the video, cues, and music going on the screen to make it feel a bit more like being in a group/race. It might sound ridiculous, but it's amazing how many dark thoughts they bring out of the most mild mannered people. Do you have Netflix or similar service? Are you able to watch DVD's at all? I don't actually have TV in the traditional sense, but do have these. The main part of last Saturday's workout was to Avengers. It's 2:20 in in length, but was still a few minutes short, and never really felt bored. But then trying to do an easier 30-60 minute spin can drive me up the wall. I tend to float around on what event size to do. Usually something bigger in the year, and then smaller ones as I feel leading up to them. I think Oly's can be a bit under appreciated by some on how tough they are. For many, they're a bit less than a sprint effort, but held for so much longer! Especially since it's going to be up near (or in) threshold range. Trying to get the pacing right is hard. Not sure I've really done that well with it yet. I like sprints though as it's fun to just let it go at times. I guess my intensity is pretty similar for an oly and a sprint, but I guess I feel like I have time to get into a groove in an oly. Maybe I should tri one more sprint. It was my first race and it probably felt so hectic because I was just so clueless My mind is going all the way back to the South Park - Prehistoric IceMan episode. They end up sending him to Iowa so he'd fit in with the culture better. (sorry, kind of) |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Jason N I read some of the back pages of this thread Jason, so I did know about your lottery spot :) If I lived in Hawaii it would be a totally different deal for all of the reasons you mentioned :) Super cool that you got a spot. I don't even know why I'm commenting on Kona... the idea of racing the IM distance sounds very far away to me:)Originally posted by switch Originally posted by ChrisM You make sense. Me, on the other hand, I'd go to Kona on a lottery, or a sponsor entry, or any method, frankly. Vegas worlds, not so much (tremblant will be much better) I used to think I'd go to Kona in any way possible too--and I certainly understand why anyone would do that--but after running the numbers on the true cost, I just don't think I could justify it for my family :) I don't know anything about Tremblant. I really should look that up;) Not sure if you know this already, but I'm doing Kona this year via the Hawaii State Lottery (Hawaii residents who finished Honu 70.3 were eligible for a separate lottery). ;) But I totally get your view as well. It's actually the total opposite for me because as someone who lives in Hawaii, Kona is the cheapest IM available to me and sort of my "home turf." We also don't have any other IM distance race (WTC or non WTC) that doesn't require a 3k+ mile plane trip. If in an alternate universe...the world championships were rooted in Lake Placid instead of Kona...I'd probably feel the exact same way as you. Especially if Hawaii had a non world championship IM that I could sign up for anytime I wanted to. When I saw my name got picked...I was just happy for the opportunity to do an IM...and that many of my friends and family would be able to make the trip to come cheer me on. |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by brigby1 lol...I can take it. This would probably also be a good time to tell you I don't have AC. And that I have a wood cook stove. Originally posted by switch Originally po I don't have Netflix but I can order a movie on you tube or something, I think? I'm kinda clueless here--my husband drives on the rare occasions we do something like that.sted by brigby1 Originally posted by switch Originally posted by brigby1 I don't watch TV, so that's not an option for me. I really like TR, but I've never tried sufferfest or anything like that. Before I did TR I would be ready to ride my bike into the wall after 30 minutes. TR is the freakin best!Originally posted by switch Originally posted by brigby1 You are a sick, sick man. Originally posted by switch So, if you qualify in June or July you race Worlds the September of the same year? Oly AGN to worlds isn't like that. Can you delay a year? I forget the exact cut-off date, but believe it's in August. That might even move around some if they move the event. You can't defer to next year. It's that year or bust. And the last few trainer rides have been kind of fun for me. Need to find a good array of carrots. Is power your favorite flavored carrot? the cut off date is good info--seems like it would be easier to plan for (tickets, accommodations, etc) and train for it with a year, but maybe once you're fit enough to qualify you just try to hold on for that for the next year? I could argue myself in circles on that one. Power is part of it. It helps a lot to have a solid plan for the ride with goals and targets for the various parts. I'm more amazed with how some people stick with it seeing that they just kind of ride along and with their selection of TV shows to do so. Things go by much better when there is something to really go after and the mood of the things you bring in are conducive towards that. And what people do for timing and qualification is very individual. With a big gap, some may take a good deal of time off while others will just keep on going as that is what they want to do. It's more in understanding yourself to figure out what works best for you. Makes sense that timing and race frequency is super personal. I'm kinda thinking 2 HIMS, 2olys. I really prefer the HIM distance, but I don't want to write-off olys yet. if I never do another Sprint, that would be fine. I'm not built to redline like that. The Sufferfest vids will be kind of like some of the TrainerRoad workouts, TR actually works with them to sync up the rides. They'll just have the video, cues, and music going on the screen to make it feel a bit more like being in a group/race. It might sound ridiculous, but it's amazing how many dark thoughts they bring out of the most mild mannered people. Do you have Netflix or similar service? Are you able to watch DVD's at all? I don't actually have TV in the traditional sense, but do have these. The main part of last Saturday's workout was to Avengers. It's 2:20 in in length, but was still a few minutes short, and never really felt bored. But then trying to do an easier 30-60 minute spin can drive me up the wall. I tend to float around on what event size to do. Usually something bigger in the year, and then smaller ones as I feel leading up to them. I think Oly's can be a bit under appreciated by some on how tough they are. For many, they're a bit less than a sprint effort, but held for so much longer! Especially since it's going to be up near (or in) threshold range. Trying to get the pacing right is hard. Not sure I've really done that well with it yet. I like sprints though as it's fun to just let it go at times. I guess my intensity is pretty similar for an oly and a sprint, but I guess I feel like I have time to get into a groove in an oly. Maybe I should tri one more sprint. It was my first race and it probably felt so hectic because I was just so clueless:) My mind is going all the way back to the South Park - Prehistoric IceMan episode. They end up sending him to Iowa so he'd fit in with the culture better. (sorry, kind of) |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by switch Originally posted by ChrisM You make sense. Me, on the other hand, I'd go to Kona on a lottery, or a sponsor entry, or any method, frankly. Vegas worlds, not so much (tremblant will be much better) I used to think I'd go to Kona in any way possible too--and I certainly understand why anyone would do that--but after running the numbers on the true cost, I just don't think I could justify it for my family I don't know anything about Tremblant. I really should look that up I'm pretty much the same as Chris...but I could probably convince my parents to help fund my trip/they would come along for the excuse to go to Kona ![]() PS: I'm not a total Princess...haha Edited by mndymond 2013-08-20 10:36 PM |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() A spring/summer of tri then a fall marry? I've done several variations: Honolulu Marathon (Dec 2009), Seattle Marathon (Nov 2010), IM Western Australia (Dec 2011). I really don't have much trouble getting motivated to run. But re-doing the bike buildup - since I also raced IMCdA June 2011 - was trying my patience. If you look at the running as a year-round thing, it's not really a big deal. And if you're doing marathon distance, you really SHOULD be running year-round.
Side note: a marathon in Seattle in November is one of the stupidest things ever conceived. I'll do more late races, but not that one. |
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![]() Can I whine? TBT picked up the stealth so I have to do tomorrows 45 minute trainer ride on the road bike. Poor me! |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by switch Originally posted by ChrisM You make sense. Me, on the other hand, I'd go to Kona on a lottery, or a sponsor entry, or any method, frankly. Vegas worlds, not so much (tremblant will be much better) I used to think I'd go to Kona in any way possible too--and I certainly understand why anyone would do that--but after running the numbers on the true cost, I just don't think I could justify it for my family I don't know anything about Tremblant. I really should look that up I have to admit, the vegas run is not the nicest in the world, (it's actually the worst). But there is something about the WC atmosphere that is unique. I got into Vegas 2x, and if I got a third, I don't know what I would do. Probably decline it. The first time, my goal was to finish, which I did barely. It is a brutal course. The run is hell. Yesterday I went running and it was 97 with the humidex. I was doing hills and I set my goal for 2013 Vegas: Finish I will give Tremblant 2014 a shot. If I don't qualify early in the season, I will try Wiesbaden which is the European championships in Germany. I am thinking for trying to qualify at Mallorca. But it depends what my schedule may look like in January/Feb/March....it may have been freed up a little. I have to use up those billion air miles from flying all over. PS : Where is Rusty ? |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by switch lol...I can take it. This would probably also be a good time to tell you I don't have AC. And that I have a wood cook stove. Solidarity! I've never seen an episode of South Park (truth), though I know what it is (sort of). No A/C here either. Not a matter a principle -- ours broke and I can't be bothered to fix it... |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by switch Originally posted by ChrisM You make sense. Me, on the other hand, I'd go to Kona on a lottery, or a sponsor entry, or any method, frankly. Vegas worlds, not so much (tremblant will be much better) I used to think I'd go to Kona in any way possible too--and I certainly understand why anyone would do that--but after running the numbers on the true cost, I just don't think I could justify it for my family I don't know anything about Tremblant. I really should look that up I have to admit, the vegas run is not the nicest in the world, (it's actually the worst). But there is something about the WC atmosphere that is unique. I got into Vegas 2x, and if I got a third, I don't know what I would do. Probably decline it. The first time, my goal was to finish, which I did barely. It is a brutal course. The run is hell. Yesterday I went running and it was 97 with the humidex. I was doing hills and I set my goal for 2013 Vegas: Finish I will give Tremblant 2014 a shot. If I don't qualify early in the season, I will try Wiesbaden which is the European championships in Germany. I am thinking for trying to qualify at Mallorca. But it depends what my schedule may look like in January/Feb/March....it may have been freed up a little. I have to use up those billion air miles from flying all over. PS : Where is Rusty ? Is the run that loop in Henderson? For ITU worlds a few years ago we had to run that stupid loop four times. Quite possibly the worst running experience (racing) in my life, and I include my IMWI run where I puked some untold number of times. However, I would probably go back. I'm an east coast guy and going to the west coast feels like traveling to the moon, which is kind of interesting. |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by TSimone Question for the group: What kind of taper should I consider for an Oct HM? I'll try to provide as much info as possible but let me know what else you might need. This will be my only race of the year so I'd like to treat it as an A race. -I'm currently at approx 30 miles/week and if things go as planned will peak at approx 45 miles/week the last 3 weeks of Sept. -Using Barry P and have been very consistent with it since May. The ramp up in volume has been very conservative, ie 5%/week, until last week. Ramp up will be 10% from here on. -Long run is planned to cap out at 2 hours, and that will be for 3 weeks, but am considering upping those 3 weeks by 10% maxing at 2.5 hours. -Started interval work 2 weeks ago and plan to add some miles repeats in Sept. -I was originally planning to cut back by 25% 2 weeks out and another 15 ish% 1 week out. So in short I just don't want to "over taper" or "under taper". Need help finding that sweet spot. Over and under. There are loads of theories, studies, hidden manuscripts, secret diaries, etc,. but I think almost anybody would would agree that you are (a) tapering too soon (given your training load) and (b) tapering too little. If you were running 80-100mpw then you'd cut back further out from the race because it takes longer to shed fatigue from that kind of load, and it takes longer for serious detraining to kick in. On 45 it would be more like 7-10 days for most people. But then cut way way back. Do not neglect intensity (in very small amounts) the week leading up to the race. Remember: tapering is a balancing act between recovering from the accumulated fatigue and minimizing detraining. The balance point is going to be different for different people, and will depend, as I hinted, on current fitness and training. I feel like I still haven't got it right for me, for IM races especially. |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by mndymond Originally posted by switch I'm pretty much the same as Chris...but I could probably convince my parents to help fund my trip/they would come along for the excuse to go to Kona :) Pretty much the day after France they were already telling me that I should do my next IM in Australia...so looks like I will be doing another...haha. AUS2015/2016. PS: I'm not a total Princess...haha Originally posted by ChrisM You make sense. Me, on the other hand, I'd go to Kona on a lottery, or a sponsor entry, or any method, frankly. Vegas worlds, not so much (tremblant will be much better) I used to think I'd go to Kona in any way possible too--and I certainly understand why anyone would do that--but after running the numbers on the true cost, I just don't think I could justify it for my family :) I don't know anything about Tremblant. I really should look that up;) That is awesome! There's nothing wrong with being a princess, and if my parents wanted to roll me like that, I would let them EVERY time :) |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() In very general terms (since I don't really know the details of your training), you'd want to get increasingly race-specific as you approach the race and work on 'pre-requisites' further out from the race. For example, early in your training cycle, you might focus on just building miles, consistency, etc., and it sounds like you've done that. Then maybe 12 weeks out you feel like you can run forever, but your VO2max is lagging, so then maybe you'd incorporate some shorter harder things -- could be as simple and safe as doing a run with rolling hills and running them pretty hard, or as complicated and risky as ladder intervals, crazy stuff like 20x200, or what have you. But about 6 weeks out (again, these numbers are ballpark examples) you might start doing something that is more specific to your race. In your case, that means working on pace at threshold. So maybe you'd alternate doing a tempo run one week, and long intervals (like mile repeats) the next. Or maybe just one tempo run a week. When you add intensity, do not also add volume. Or, to put it another way, think of adding intensity as also adding volume (it is additional stress on the body over what you were doing before). If you are adapting to the new intensity just fine, then go back to building volume while keeping the intensity in place. As to whether you'd be better off focusing on building miles or adding intensity, the answer is usually the former until you are running a lot. |
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![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Experior Originally posted by switch lol...I can take it. This would probably also be a good time to tell you I don't have AC. And that I have a wood cook stove. Solidarity! I've never seen an episode of South Park (truth), though I know what it is (sort of). No A/C here either. Not a matter a principle -- ours broke and I can't be bothered to fix it... I cannot even fathom no AC. And I keep the house fairly warm at 81 (80 is just too cold for me) |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Experior Is the run that loop in Henderson? For ITU worlds a few years ago we had to run that stupid loop four times. Quite possibly the worst running experience (racing) in my life, and I include my IMWI run where I puked some untold number of times. However, I would probably go back. I'm an east coast guy and going to the west coast feels like traveling to the moon, which is kind of interesting. Yep, that's the one We only do 3 loops :-) But if I am not mistaken, ITU worlds were end of Oct/Nov. September is even toastier. |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I've been out of the loop - but trying to catch up with reading through as many pages as possible, though I admit to skimming a lot. Had my last race of the season, a Sprint, on Sunday. I kind of figured in advance that this race was not going to be my best outing since training has been sporadic lately - especially the bike. I ended up riding better than expected, but still slower than last year, but that came after a craptastic swim that killed the day. The run turned into a survival effort near the end. Race report to follow soon. What I really learned from this day - and what I already knew - is that to be faster, I'm simply going to have to reduce my time on the bike. My swim is not great, and although I continue to work at it, I've accepted the fact that I may not see any real speed improvements over where I am today. But the bike, I think this is still an area I can get faster. Anyone got suggestions on a 9 month plan to get me ready for next season? |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by GoFaster I've been out of the loop - but trying to catch up with reading through as many pages as possible, though I admit to skimming a lot. Had my last race of the season, a Sprint, on Sunday. I kind of figured in advance that this race was not going to be my best outing since training has been sporadic lately - especially the bike. I ended up riding better than expected, but still slower than last year, but that came after a craptastic swim that killed the day. The run turned into a survival effort near the end. Race report to follow soon. What I really learned from this day - and what I already knew - is that to be faster, I'm simply going to have to reduce my time on the bike. My swim is not great, and although I continue to work at it, I've accepted the fact that I may not see any real speed improvements over where I am today. But the bike, I think this is still an area I can get faster. Anyone got suggestions on a 9 month plan to get me ready for next season? Good to hear from you Neil. For a second I was worried that you were suggesting that you were going to spend less time riding your bike and thought we might have to have an intervention. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Experior Is the run that loop in Henderson? For ITU worlds a few years ago we had to run that stupid loop four times. Quite possibly the worst running experience (racing) in my life, and I include my IMWI run where I puked some untold number of times. However, I would probably go back. I'm an east coast guy and going to the west coast feels like traveling to the moon, which is kind of interesting. Yep, that's the one We only do 3 loops :-) But if I am not mistaken, ITU worlds were end of Oct/Nov. September is even toastier. Been lucky there too. Last year it was like 94, but saw 103 the day before and similar on a lot of the days leading in. |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Experior But about 6 weeks out (again, these numbers are ballpark examples) you might start doing something that is more specific to your race. In your case, that means working on pace at threshold. So maybe you'd alternate doing a tempo run one week, and long intervals (like mile repeats) the next. Or maybe just one tempo run a week. I find this is really important for me. |
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