Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED (Page 6)

hey Ken!!  Welcome!!

if i decide to go long again after this year, Mussleman weekend is the race i would do, i hear sooooo many great things about that race, and that part of NY is one of the most beautiful.

i went to Geneva for a wedding a few years back, we stayed on the lake at a B&B and was totally impressed with the area.

as for Rusty's question, i too have started using Trainerroad for power, at least while i am still indoors. It gives me the ability to maximize the hour to hour and a half i spend on the thing. when it is warm, i am outside only, usually a mixed group ride with lots of hammering and some recovery, town line sprints and the such.  A typical weekend group ride will last 2-4 hours and have 2500-5k feet of climbing.

All my runs are RPE, i try to run easy most of the time, as most of my bikes are hard, even group training rides are usually hammerfests with lots of hills, the little guys need something to shoot for as i constantly put them in the hurt locker on the flats and rollers. Since most of my bike is done anaerobically, i try to keep 90% of my runs aerobic recovery.

It worked well last year, and this year i have been more run focused as that is the lower hanging fruit for me.  It is also my fourth year doing this, so i have learned a lot, and Fred and Fred's group has taught me even more.

Morning Crew - Got a good 2700 yard swim in this morning.  Planning to run an EZ 5 at lunch today.

Lance:  To be honest I did not think he would be able to run as well as he has these first couple 70.3s.  That has really impressed me.  I do think he needs a harder bike course.  Like Leadville this past weekend with all the wind and climbing..that would have really suited him I think.  The worse conditions and bigger the hills the better.

Training Metrics:  I have used all three (RPE, HR, Power) and quite honestly would be just as productive if only RPE was used.  The HR and Power devices are nice and give quick and EZ feedback and power gives you a nice baseline to gauge improvement...but not absolutely necessary IMO. 

I swim my sets based on pace, run by pace and RPE, and bike mainly by RPE although sometimes HR and sometimes power (via TrainerRoad).  I tend to race just by RPE although do use HR during HIM events on the bike only.

Saying that...I think each has their place.

ETA:  I am a flipper .

Good morning!  Did an easy 5 mile run around the condo complex we are staying at in Orlando.  Heat and other walker/runners slowed me down some but it has been a lot of running for me the last couple of weeks so the fatigue factor is there as well.

As far as training metrics go I like the gadgets.  I use the PT on the bike and prefer to use pace for training the run.  Although during the off season I tend to go with RPE just using HR to keep me honest. 

As far as training with power on the bike, I like what little I know so far.  This past winter I followed Jorge's plan and the CP number went up nicely over the time I was training with it.  But it didn't teach me a lot about the other metrics.  I see Fred referring to TSS a lot and am interested in knowing the relevancy of that and some of the other metrics in training and setting a race plan.

Thanks!

Musselman is a well run race weekend and a lot of BT'ers participate.  I believe that Fred is coming up for that race again this year as well.  For me it is a no brainer as it is about 12 miles from home, but I agree it is a beautiful part of the state, especially that time of year.  It would be nice if it was a bit cooler than last year though!

Good morning, all. And a welcome to the newest additions to the group.

Feeling much better today after resting last night...no more fever. Back at work for a couple days before another 4-day weekend.

I will try to do some activity this afternoon...a swim or easy spin depending on the schedule. Soreness is almost nonexistent today.

For training and racing I use a combination of HR and RPE. Haven't taken the plunge to spend the money on power, but it is something that I am considering as an option in the future.

Flip turns...is there any other legitimate option?

mndymond - 2012-04-04 6:23 AM

bzgl40 - 2012-04-04 6:15 AMI am off for a swim this morning then back to Tucson this afternoon.  Had fun in Texas but ready to get back to my regular life.  Even if that means going to work. 

Looks like there are a few of you down in Tucson. I'm thinking of coming down for a month next spring once I write my licensing exam to train for IM France. I am going to avoid the mistake I made with IMLP where I trained in a place that hit 20C max and ended up racing in a place that hit 45C a few days before the race. Not used to the heat! Been looking at a few places on VRBO to stay in while I'm there, looks like a nice place to train!

Just don't be looking for any open water.   If you want to train in the heat this is the place to do it, especially if you also want hills.  But, you will not have humidity.  So that is also a consideration.  I tried to get a lot of afternoon runs in and I think that helps.  Lots of folks mentioned Galveston being hot and I found the temps (and humidity) quite comfortable.

As far as training tools go...

I use HR on my bike trainer, and otherwise I'm straight RPE. I do not own a powermeter.

HR and power can be useful tools if you test yourself at regular intervals. They can also be good to just kind of check in on yourself. But, you really need to understand the numbers, otherwise it's just excess data...

HA!  barely these days... I was trying to get my profile done quickly and copied the questions to answer from someone else's and did a bad job of editing in between daddy-duty.

I'll get my logs updated this evening and try to respond to some posts.... Headed to the gym for my 30 minute tready run.  My allergies are killing me right now so this should be interesting.

mndymond - 2012-04-04 11:09 AM

bzgl40 - 2012-04-04 8:40 AM

mndymond - 2012-04-04 6:23 AM

bzgl40 - 2012-04-04 6:15 AMI am off for a swim this morning then back to Tucson this afternoon.  Had fun in Texas but ready to get back to my regular life.  Even if that means going to work. 

Looks like there are a few of you down in Tucson. I'm thinking of coming down for a month next spring once I write my licensing exam to train for IM France. I am going to avoid the mistake I made with IMLP where I trained in a place that hit 20C max and ended up racing in a place that hit 45C a few days before the race. Not used to the heat! Been looking at a few places on VRBO to stay in while I'm there, looks like a nice place to train!

Just don't be looking for any open water.   If you want to train in the heat this is the place to do it, especially if you also want hills.  But, you will not have humidity.  So that is also a consideration.  I tried to get a lot of afternoon runs in and I think that helps.  Lots of folks mentioned Galveston being hot and I found the temps (and humidity) quite comfortable.

Haha. Ya, humidity is also a consideration. Thought about Hawaii but I'm going for 3 weeks at Xmas this year (ya, I have a hard life ) Anyone have other suggestions of good places to go for training for a month given the parameters I'm looking for: heat in may/june, hills +\- humidity/OWS and isn't too difficult to get to from western Canada? I like to plan things and get deals!

Melissa - I can give you a solid recommendation for North Georgia!1.5 hour easy drive from the largest/busiest airport in the world (ATL), hot, humid, Lots of good open water swims, tons of sustained climbs of 1 hour+, plenty of vacation rentals, mountain cabins, lake houses, etc, and mile after mile of really good southern roads with little to no traffic. And a good triathlon community to hook up with. It is where I did/do most of my training for IMLP, and it makes Lake Placid seem like a cake walk. On June 24th there is a great point-to-point 5k swim that draws a lot of long course triathletes from around the state - there is usually a pretty good group that does a long ride immediately following. We also have tons of local race choices if you wanted to include some shorter tune-ups into your training.

Melissa and Fred, funny that you mention this as it just came up today as a topic in the current IMLP group. I too went wetsuit-less last year, and even though I got pummeled like all the rest, I still think it was the right decision and would do the same again. While most will not admit it, the water was just too warm for wetsuits. There were lots of complaints about the heat and dehydration issues from folks throughout the day - I think that began to happen for most during the swim. I gave up at least 10 minutes on the swim by not wearing a wetsuit. I believe I made that time up (and more) on the bike and run, but who really knows.

I am willing to bet that if the same thing happens this year they will have a plan to use waves, first wetsuit-less, followed by wetsuits. If so I would make the same decision again, and not because I think I have a shot at Kona. I just think it would be worth it to be that much closer to the pointy end of the race.

Very sad news...my best wishes for your friend.

Group ride yesterday was HARD.  Lots of punishment...

Short run and masters class planned after work.

As far as training metrics...I use a little bit of everything.  Pace clock while swimming, garmin while running, HR and power while riding.  Of course RPE also figures in to everything as well.

Specifically for the bike...I find that there is no substitute for power.  When I'm suffering, when I want to quit, my mind starts making up excuses like I'm going to hard, or that my HR is too high, or whatever.  But when you look down at your wattage and see that your below your goal...you know you have to kick it up no matter how hard it hurts or risk the feeling of failure when you're done.  And for me...that's what it comes down to.  If I set a wattage goal, I'm going to do everything possible to make it, and when I look at my power profile, I have definitive proof if I did or did not.  I don't get that with HR or RPE.  I can't say 100% that I rode at RPE 8, and HR is quite variable.

As far as TSS...it's something I have only been looking into recently.  When bike racing season comes around, it will mean a lot more to me since most of my training is riding...but during tri season it's a little hard because I don't know how to accurately measure my TSS for running and swimming.  In any case, it's still a good metric to keep tabs on, and can explain why you may have had a good or bad ride.

But all in all, it comes down to what works for you...what motivates you, and what keeps you training at the levels you want.  My analytical nature leads me towards power, but RPE and HR can also be just as effective.

Welcome new and old Fred-ites.   I'll post a bio soon, getting back into the swing post 70.3..   First swim last night, first run tonight

I know it's related to training, but before Calif. 70.3 i asked how people paced their race.  RPE, HR, power, etc.  I was really asking because I didn't have any idea how to pace mine, and since I wasn't HR training, and only using power on the CT, I was a bit lost.

Decided to go in on RPE alone, and I have to say it served me well.  hell, it's only taken 7 years to get a good RPE race and not blow myself up