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2016-01-07 5:51 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
Originally posted by Jason N

Data is only useful if you know what to do with it.  Data itself...isn't really anything but numbers.  I use trainingpeaks (as well as my coach) to analyze my power files and track TSS.  I've only been coached for 2 months now, and prior to that I have been using some form of software to monitor my power files for the last 6 years.

For now, being that you are new to power, the most important thing is that you at least save all your workout files for historical reference.  Do not delete them even if you feel you have no use for them now.  You may have use for them later if you (or someone else like a coach) wants to see how your workouts have progressed week to week, month to month, season to season.

During off season, I don't think it's that critical to track TSS that much.  You generally see more worth as you approach races so you can balance your training load high enough for maximum fitness, while also managing recovery so you feel fresh.  As you get more into the data though, you can track season to season and how you performed based on your performance management chart.




I get that data isn't useful in and of itself unless you can actually apply it. I guess another way of looking at what I was asking was "how do I actually use this data?" From what you and the other Jason describe it seems as though it's more useful for longer term tracking of your progression, and for helping to properly peak leading up to a race. I guess a properly managed TSS is a little different from just building volume/intensity and then tapering before a big race - I mean, I guess fundamentally it's the same, just a little more measured/deliberate than what I've been doing already.

I do like the idea of the performance management chart and being able to visually see what's happening with my fitness and form over the season, particularly as I approach my "A" races. Seems pretty straightforward to send my files from Garmin and Trainerroad over to Training Peaks. I guess I'd have to log my swims manually - I may try it out just to see if it's much of an extra hassle. I like BT's training logs so wouldn't really want to switch over completely.


2016-01-07 7:45 AM
in reply to: jimmyb

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!"

Strength session and short treadmill run done.  Legs really heavy from yesterday afternoon's med/longish run.  One of the tough things about running 5-6 days a week is the fact that my legs never really feel fresh.  That should change as my legs/body continue to  adapt to the increased load.  Easy spin on the bike tonight.

Jim-how do you like the Powertap pedals?

Question for the group: Do you do any strength training and if so what do you do?  I would include yoga and non traditional strength work in the question.  I try to do 2 sessions a week of 20-30 minutes of weights/body weight leg work and core.  Unfortunately, it seems I move away from this when race season rolls around and I feel that I need to put all available time into S/B/R.  I think it is especially good for me as an older triathlete and my hope is the leg work will help minimize the periodic issues I have with calf strains and hamstring tightness.

Have a good day all.  Those that have not posted a bio...please do so....just no pictures of Rusty in a speedo please.

2016-01-07 7:47 AM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!"
Originally posted by slornow
Those that have not posted a bio...please do so....just no pictures of Rusty in a speedo please.




It should be noted that female participation in the group went up 50% after Rusty's speedo post.
2016-01-07 7:58 AM
in reply to: SenatorClayDavis

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

There is a lot of very interesting and useful things you can extract from these tools

- managing load, intensity, volume, time in zones....
- comparing efforts from workout to workout, season to season
- maintaining threshold and other power data. Providing hints when thresholds need to be reviewed
- analysis of cycling, running and swimming metrics
- analysis of workouts, too easy, too hard....
- managing 3 sports
- workout creation
- aero testing
- performance prediction
- provide a training environment similar to TR
- scheduling and communication with coaches.

and the list goes on

I have used, and own Golden Cheetah, TP, WKO 3&4, Raceday and a whole slew of home grown tools. I started off my career as a S/W Engineer and worked in BigData all my life so yes I am a data geek. I bet s/w I worked on has tracked each and every one of you at one point. Kind of scary actually.

The #1 thing for the newbie is to be consistent and precise at logging information. Ideally it's log it once with some detail and let it flow from system to system. While I like the BT tools, if you only log into BT, you can't easily get it out and there is loss of information.

Personally, I don't think TP is the best at everything, but I think it's good at everything. Files from Garmin Connect get sent automatically to TP. You can enter your comments there. It can then sync to Golden Cheetah and BT and the data can be exported later on with no loss.

If people want details, screen shots or even comparison of the tools I can share my n=1 experience.



2016-01-07 8:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!"
Originally posted by wannabefaster

I use a PT power meter but as a true technophobe, most of Jason and Marc's conversation about offset is lost on me.......

I recently bought a new Garmin 520 and it synced up with my training wheel. I then updated the software and it cannot seem to find the PT unit now. It keeps telling me to "wake up your sensor to begin pairing." I have changed the batteries in my hub. Any thoughts from the smart guys here?


On the "offset thing". Think of an old mechanical scale. You aren't on it and it's reading 2lbs. You turn the little dial to bring it to 0. That's what the offset is. It's that 2lbs. Doing a calibration brings it to 0. It actually measures the force at the PM with no load on the PM. Exactly like the scale.

For your 520. If it all worked and it's after you updated the s/w in the Garmin (?), my bet is a data corruption in the Garmin. Jason's suggestion to try pairing with another device is a good one. A factory reset on the 520 might also clear up data corruption. This is assuming it is the Garmin you updated and not the PT firmware.



Edited by marcag 2016-01-07 8:24 AM
2016-01-07 8:20 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!"
Originally posted by wannabefaster

Originally posted by slornow

Originally posted by jimmyb Hi Guys! I'm still at it. Finally got into Kona for 2016 (via Legacy, no I'm still not even close to doing it by time). Would love to work with you guys again if there is still room. Jim

 

Hey Jim-I think we will close the group with your entry.  Will be great to follow you on your road to Kona!




I think that Stuart (StuartAp) will be joining up here soon. I don't know if we have a true fish in the group so it would be wise to have him join. Heck, he is such a good guy that it would be wise to let him in even if he couldn't swim a stroke.

And of course, Randee, you are absolutely welcome.


Jason thanks for the kind words. I would love to jump back in. I started with another group last Jan but it just didn't click. Your group was so helpful both getting me started and helping through and past my accident I would be so grateful to have the support through this big year for me.

I will post a bio later today but my signature block will give you an idea why this is an important year in my tri life.

Thanks again.


2016-01-07 8:21 AM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!"
Originally posted by slornow
Question for the group: Do you do any strength training and if so what do you do?  I would include yoga and non traditional strength work in the question.


I have very intentionally added more paddle work to my swim, big gear work to the bike and will get into some hill work on the run very soon.
I did a bit of stretch cord work last year and I should try to find time for it as well.
2016-01-07 8:24 AM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
Originally posted by slornow

Originally posted by mtnbikerchk RANDY AND JASON ARE BACK!! (how did I miss 5 pages already?) Room for me?

Sure, we always have room for a legacy!  Post a bio when you can.




I'm a legacy!

I'made stuck in a seminar this am..... will try asap. I did read through the last time 6 pages! GREAT LOOKING GROUP.
2016-01-07 8:25 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

I am fairly new to power training. So far the Powertap pedals have had minimal use as my outdoor riding has been little to non-existant over the last 4-5 months. I've been almost exclusively trainer. When on trainer I use my Wahoo Kickr for main power measurement. I find the powertap pedals to read slightly less power than the Kickr, but less than a 5% difference. More importantly though, the reads are consistent so I can use either fairly reliably. I like the right/left input display on the pedals to help me know if my pedaling is balanced. I also use the powertap Joule GPS+ meter with them and they work well together. In addition to power, I get cadence as well as usual GPS data.

I used the pedals at IM AZ and the numbers were spot on to my power number as recc by my coach. What I found frustrating was the wattage jumped all over the place and it was hard to know exactly what my power was at any given time.. I'm going to discuss this with the company as it may be an issue on my end (by the way their tech support is great, and they will talk you through any issue).

I am excited to do more outdoor training with the pedals.

I do not do any strength training. I certainly will if my coach asks me to do it.

I have a question for the group. I live in cold climates and now am doing lots of treadmill running. I've been running lately a 2% grade minimum at all times. What do others set as the minimum inclination? I want to mimic outside running as best I can. Jim
2016-01-07 8:36 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!"

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by slornow Question for the group: Do you do any strength training and if so what do you do?  I would include yoga and non traditional strength work in the question.
I have very intentionally added more paddle work to my swim, big gear work to the bike and will get into some hill work on the run very soon. I did a bit of stretch cord work last year and I should try to find time for it as well.

2~3x per week PT work has all but replaced the strength work that I normally do for the time being, but usually I do 1x week yoga class (iyengar) and once a week Pilates private lesson. depending on the time of year I will do 1 or two more pilates routines per week, and graduate up through isolateral and plyometric work. I also try to get to masters early and warm up with cords and do a little dryland work immediately after if I have time. Being older, of all of that I find the Isolateral work to be the most beneficial for building resilience for me. As triathletes, we naturally build a fair amount of strength in the sagital plane, but when our form starts to break down (leading to injury) it is often because we have not develop similar strength in the frontal/coronal plane. I have found that trail running helps tremendously as well, and try to do about 80% of my running off road, usually. Right now I have been avoiding it as I continue work through my angry left meniscus issues.

Like mark, I also do a healthy bit of overgear work on the trainer, and consider that more of a strength workout.

2016-01-07 8:36 AM
in reply to: jimmyb

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

Stuartap-great to have you again.  Thought we would hear from you at some point and am glad you are here.

Jim-treadmills are so inconsistent from one brand or even individual treadmill to the next. Not sure if there is a standard incline to replicate running outside. I would think around 1-2%?  On the treadmills I use at the gym I usually set to 1/2 of 1% grade.  I use that as it seems to give me a HR consistent with what I get outside at the same pace.  Right now all my runs are easy so I am not really worried about pace....just trying to keep HR in Z2.  



2016-01-07 8:43 AM
in reply to: jimmyb

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
Originally posted by jimmyb
  • ...What I found frustrating was the wattage jumped all over the place and it was hard to know exactly what my power was at any given time..


  • Do you use some type of averaging, like 3sec or 10sec or even 30sec. If instantaneous, the jumping around is very normal



    I've been running lately a 2% grade minimum at all times. What do others set as the minimum inclination?


    I use 1/2% on easy runs.
    2016-01-07 8:54 AM
    in reply to: slornow

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

    Originally posted by slornow

    Stuartap-great to have you again.  Thought we would hear from you at some point and am glad you are here.

    Jim-treadmills are so inconsistent from one brand or even individual treadmill to the next. Not sure if there is a standard incline to replicate running outside. I would think around 1-2%?  On the treadmills I use at the gym I usually set to 1/2 of 1% grade.  I use that as it seems to give me a HR consistent with what I get outside at the same pace.  Right now all my runs are easy so I am not really worried about pace....just trying to keep HR in Z2.  

    Yes, I was going to say the same. Treadmill calibration is so varied it does not really matter much, so on the rare occasion I find myself on one I focus on effort and cadence. I change the elevation just what feels right: on some mills it is flat, on some they need a little elevation. It doesn't seem prudent to run uphill all the time, but that may just be me. FWIW treadmill elevation is a little like religion with pure runners. If  you need about an hour of entertainment head over to letsrun and do a search on "Treadmill Running." You will get all sorts of opinions on proper elevation along with lots of research to support all points of view.

    2016-01-07 9:14 AM
    in reply to: jimmyb

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

    I have a question for the group. I live in cold climates and now am doing lots of treadmill running. I've been running lately a 2% grade minimum at all times. What do others set as the minimum inclination? I want to mimic outside running as best I can. Jim

    For easy runs, I set it at a 1% grade.  To mimic hills, I'll set it between 4 and 6 depending on how I'm feeling and do 2.5 minute sets with 2.5 minutes rest back down at 1 or even 0.

    FYI treadmill speeds are notoriously inaccurate.  I use the Garmin foot pod (which tracks pretty closely with my GPS outdoors) and my Xterra treadmill seems to be operating about 20 to 25 seconds faster per km.

     

    2016-01-07 9:30 AM
    in reply to: Scott71

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
    Originally posted by Scott71

    I have a question for the group. I live in cold climates and now am doing lots of treadmill running. I've been running lately a 2% grade minimum at all times. What do others set as the minimum inclination? I want to mimic outside running as best I can. Jim

    For easy runs, I set it at a 1% grade.  To mimic hills, I'll set it between 4 and 6 depending on how I'm feeling and do 2.5 minute sets with 2.5 minutes rest back down at 1 or even 0.

    FYI treadmill speeds are notoriously inaccurate.  I use the Garmin foot pod (which tracks pretty closely with my GPS outdoors) and my Xterra treadmill seems to be operating about 20 to 25 seconds faster per km.

     




    A good way to check your treadmill is to use the speed/distance sensor from your bike (if you have one). Put the rear wheel on the treadmill, let it run and see if the speed/distance of the treadmill matches that of the sensor. This assumes you have properly calibrated the speed/distance sensor on the bike.
    2016-01-07 9:32 AM
    in reply to: Scott71

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

    Just a PSA for other treadmill owners.  I've had my treadmill for over a year now but had to make a warranty claim about 6 months ago due to an overload error message.

    The manufacturer sent a technician to replace the motor and the motherboard no questions asked, but the technician was 99% sure that it was simply due to lack of lubrication. 

    The manual says to lubricate every 180 hours, but the technician said that was way too long and it should be at around 40 or 50 hours.

    Lubricant is only $10 for 3 tubes, so its worth the investment.

    He also left the old motor and motherboard, so I've now got a spare if it dies again after the warranty expires.



    2016-01-07 9:42 AM
    in reply to: marcag

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

    A good way to check your treadmill is to use the speed/distance sensor from your bike (if you have one). Put the rear wheel on the treadmill, let it run and see if the speed/distance of the treadmill matches that of the sensor. This assumes you have properly calibrated the speed/distance sensor on the bike.

    Ha, never thought of that!  That's a much better way.

    2016-01-07 10:33 AM
    in reply to: slornow

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!"
    Originally posted by slornow
    Question for the group: Do you do any strength training and if so what do you do?


    At this point I'm just doing one strength session a week, focused primarily on hip and knee strengthening (i.e. preventing run injuries) as well as core work. No weights, just body weight stuff. I was doing some yoga here and there with the wife... I'd like to do more of that but there never seems to be the time. I think ideally I'd start each day with a little yoga session but it's hard to do that while keeping tabs on the kids.

    @marcag: that's a good point about being able to get the data out later on, that hadn't really occurred to me. I could certainly see wanting to have all that data easily available/transferrable down the road.
    2016-01-07 11:43 AM
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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
    Glad this group is back and very happy to be a part of it.

    NAME: StuartAP/Stuart (Please no Stu or Stewie)


    STORY: A few years back I attended a local tri event assisting my daughter at a booth for the American Diabetes Association. I was inspired by many of the people I saw including several Clydes much larger than I (250# at the time at 5’11”) and an 87 year old woman finisher.

    I started training, lost a bunch of weight and did my first tri. It was a sprint, kinda. There was a big rain a few days before and San Diego Bay was closed so they did a run-bike-run. To say I am a bad runner is a gross understatement. Despite that, I was hook.

    Two weeks before my second event I was hit by a car and fractured my hip. Emergency repair surgery was unsuccessful and six month later I had a full hip replacement. All tolled, eight months on crutches and a year off training. That second surgery was the day before Halloween 2013, so 26 months ago.

    Last year I competed in four Olys with big plans for this year.

    A bit of relevant background. I was a swimmer in HS & college, a natural fishie. I love to ride, still hate to run.


    FAMILY STATUS: Married 41 years to the girl I took to the senior prom. Two adult kids, two dogs.


    CURRENT TRAINING: I work at a JCC with a full gym, pool, spin room, TRX, basketball courts etc. Anything you want or need is at your disposal. I ride four days a week. Three days are indoors at the Sufferfest classes they do here, each 2 hours long. I ride outdoors one day a week with a cycling club, almost all younger and faster than me. They keep me humble and make me work…hard.
    Right now with the cold weather I am not in the pool much but I know how to close that gap pretty quickly. I run two days a week and am working on building up my endurance.


    THIS YEAR'S RACES (2015): As I mentioned above, 4 Olys.

    UPCOMING YEAR'S RACES (2016). This was the plan:
    March 2016 – Pacheco Triathlon (Oly)
    May 2016 – HITS half, Grand Junction, CO
    June 2016 – Tour de Cure 120k ride, Silicon Valley, CA
    September 2016 – Kokopelli Oly, Hurricane, UT
    December 2016 – HITS Full, Palm Springs, CA

    However, I recently learned that my March Tri may not happen. It was at a High School about an hour away, as a fundraiser for the Water Polo team (as a fishie a good cause). However the organizer is no longer at the school and no one has picked up the duties so as of today, a no go. If that happens I may add the Solvang century, a 100 mile bike ride through the Santa Ynez valley. It is also in March.

    That aside, my two big races are the HIM in May and the IM in Dec. Because of the hip replacement, once I do the IM my doctor says I have to quit the running so it’s Aqua/Bikes after that.


    WEIGHTLOSS: Right now I have been hanging around 195. I want to be at or under 190 for the half in May and 185 for the IM in Dec.




    Edited by Stuartap 2016-01-07 11:44 AM
    2016-01-07 11:47 AM
    in reply to: Scott71

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed

    Originally posted by Scott71

    A good way to check your treadmill is to use the speed/distance sensor from your bike (if you have one). Put the rear wheel on the treadmill, let it run and see if the speed/distance of the treadmill matches that of the sensor. This assumes you have properly calibrated the speed/distance sensor on the bike.

    Ha, never thought of that!  That's a much better way.

    That's kind of awesome.  I know my treadmill is "fast" - at least it mkaes me feel better about my current running.  I'm going to check the actual speed with my PT wheel tonight if I can, but then I don't know how to calibrate the treadmill.  Just leave it and adjust accordingly for paces? 

    And yes, very behind in posting a bio.

    2016-01-07 12:01 PM
    in reply to: slornow

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!"
    Originally posted by slornow

    Question for the group: Do you do any strength training and if so what do you do?




    I came off of doing a fair amount in the off-season, (Oct-Dec) I also wanted more of a mental break from anything else. But now that I will be back training I will try to do 2 hours a week of strength, (30min lower body and 30mins core one day, and 30min Upper, and 30min core) I have a pretty week core so I should really focus more on that.





    Went for a bike ride yesterday night, (currently working in another city that I can ride my bike in for the month of Jan.) granted it was a bit cold, pretty cold, around 4 degree's C still felt nice to ride outside. But holy crap do I suck, that ride felt super hard and there was a decent hill, well for me I am used to riding in the prairies where a 20m (60ft climb is a hill) this ride had a good climb around 6-12% for 70m (210ft)

    But what I found was my HR was pretty high with what I felt was surviving that route (did two loops, 10km each loop) Until I get home and back on the trainer for more structured workouts should I keep doing these loops for the month that I am here?

    Or should I try to figure out more precise workouts. ( have no power meter on the bike, just a garmin) Also the convenience of this loop is nice, its 1km away from my place and there is no traffic lights in the 10km loop


    Thanks,


    2016-01-07 12:06 PM
    in reply to: Stuartap

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
    Stuart - that is an amazing story; inspiring that you seem to have figured out how to stick with and adjust goals despite the significant injuries and setbacks. FWIW it always seems that the "fishes from birth" that I know have a similar love/hate relationship with the bike and run. Most of my close friends that are early onset swimmers have gigantic engines One of the reasons I try to swim a lot as it seems the best way to build cardiovascular system, and over the past few years as I have upped my pool time via masters I think it has actually made my running much better. The other things that all my fish friends seem to have in common is that they are a) big/tall, b) have incredibly flexible joints, especially ankles, and c) no real history of weight bearing exercise. Coupled with the big motors, this seems to be a great recipe for cycling, but maybe not so much for running?
    2016-01-07 12:10 PM
    in reply to: marcag

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
    Originally posted by marcagA good way to check your treadmill is to use the speed/distance sensor from your bike (if you have one). Put the rear wheel on the treadmill, let it run and see if the speed/distance of the treadmill matches that of the sensor. This assumes you have properly calibrated the speed/distance sensor on the bike.

    that really is so obviously, fantastically brilliant, Marc. I live for kludgey stuff like that!

    2016-01-07 12:14 PM
    in reply to: Murph333

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!"
    Originally posted by Murph333
    Originally posted by slornow

    Question for the group: Do you do any strength training and if so what do you do?

    I came off of doing a fair amount in the off-season, (Oct-Dec) I also wanted more of a mental break from anything else. But now that I will be back training I will try to do 2 hours a week of strength, (30min lower body and 30mins core one day, and 30min Upper, and 30min core) I have a pretty week core so I should really focus more on that. Went for a bike ride yesterday night, (currently working in another city that I can ride my bike in for the month of Jan.) granted it was a bit cold, pretty cold, around 4 degree's C still felt nice to ride outside. But holy crap do I suck, that ride felt super hard and there was a decent hill, well for me I am used to riding in the prairies where a 20m (60ft climb is a hill) this ride had a good climb around 6-12% for 70m (210ft) But what I found was my HR was pretty high with what I felt was surviving that route (did two loops, 10km each loop) Until I get home and back on the trainer for more structured workouts should I keep doing these loops for the month that I am here? Or should I try to figure out more precise workouts. ( have no power meter on the bike, just a garmin) Also the convenience of this loop is nice, its 1km away from my place and there is no traffic lights in the 10km loop Thanks,
    I would probably go out each day with a plan of structured intervals based on time and effort, or at least point-to-predetermined-point on the course and effort. Are you suffering from heart rate uncoupling or is it just more difficult to gauge your effort on the road?
    2016-01-07 12:36 PM
    in reply to: TankBoy

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    Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed
    Originally posted by TankBoy

    Stuart - that is an amazing story; inspiring that you seem to have figured out how to stick with and adjust goals despite the significant injuries and setbacks. FWIW it always seems that the "fishes from birth" that I know have a similar love/hate relationship with the bike and run. Most of my close friends that are early onset swimmers have gigantic engines One of the reasons I try to swim a lot as it seems the best way to build cardiovascular system, and over the past few years as I have upped my pool time via masters I think it has actually made my running much better. The other things that all my fish friends seem to have in common is that they are a) big/tall, b) have incredibly flexible joints, especially ankles, and c) no real history of weight bearing exercise. Coupled with the big motors, this seems to be a great recipe for cycling, but maybe not so much for running?

    Rusty I had not thought of it in terms of weight bearing exercises but that's a good observation. Most of my fishie friends also shy away from running but many are avid cyclists. My transition into cycling was easy and fun. Right now its 150+ miles a week and pushing 200 some weeks without thinking twice about it.

    Getting to an 11 minute mile average on a run has been arduous by comparison. I had an easier time getting from 17 mph to 22 mph on a 50 mile ride than getter from a 12 minute mile to the 11 minute mark now on just a three mile run.

    At 5'11" I am not real tall but big, especially through the chest. It is a little frustrating when I'm riding with some guys 5'8" and 150#. They power up the hills with ease where I struggle. I do get some assist in the physics on the down side though. ;-)

    I do stretch a lot and do work on ankle flexibility. It is very important in the water.

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