Do you just have "it" or not? (Page 6)

Rick - This is very interesting about the T-mobile team. However, are you trying to imply that anyone, say your regular MOP triathlete, would have the physical ability to just go out and do 110-150 miles every day, day in and day out, at 17-18 mph without some pretty high-percentile natural talent?

(just talking about the ability, not the time management aspect)

PS: For me, this the most interesting thread on BT in a long time and I find it highly motivating.

No.  More in line with the fact that it takes consistent training to get to that level.  People tend to think the pros are out there hammering day in and day out when in reality they are out there bored out of their skulls for 5 - 8 hours at a time because that is what they need to do to get there.

If people put in even 1+ hour average a day (averaged out ove the whole week) then they would be getting in 7 - 10 a week.  And that is more than doable with a normal life.

For those that don't know, I'm married, sole income maker for the house, with three young boys (7, 4, 1), and commute to work about 40 minutes each way.  Yet even on a "bad" week I'll still manage about 6 hours of training a week.  "Good" weeks will see up to the 10 - 12 range.  And all of that is solely morning and some evenings.  I don't train at lunch, and only get out in the evening maybe twice a week.

JohnnyKay has an even more aggressive schedule and if you look at his logs you can see what sort of workouts he's getting in ...... with three kids of his own and married!

I dont think many folks if any just hop on a bike and that happens like that.  I think with those vols you can safely say peeps are working their azzes off to get there.

OK scoob, I'll admit I peeked before I asked this question.  Please don't take any of this as "picking" on you or your training.  I have no idea about your priorities or other life commitments.  And I looked only at aggregate volume--no idea of workout details or even sport split.  Just some observations:

So you've upped your volume over the last 3 months.  But for several months before that I see maybe 4-5 hours.  Last summer maybe you average 6 or 7 with a few bigger ones (guessing long bikes, but I didn't check details).  Again, several months before that 2 or 3 hours per week.  Like you noted, that's probably not enough to get you to top 10% in aggregate.  But even the recent ramp-up isn't long enough to make any kind of judgement on your potential.  You're still building base.

Being a "slower" kid growing up is jsut sill--sorry.  If you ever met me as a kid you would never pick me out as fast.  Just determined.  And "speed" is virtually irrelevant for most triathlons.  It doesn't matter how fast you can run 100m.  It matters how long you can hold a steady pace, i.e., endurance.

As to your evidence of others doing more with less.  Sure, some people have more natural ability.  Some may have a better background.  They won't have to work as hard as you to get the same results.  That doesn't mean you can't get to their level if you continue to work harder than them.

If your workouts leave you exhausted and in need of recovery, you either (a) have other non-training stresses that are a constraining factor or (b) aren't at a level where you can tackle your current workouts (I see that despite your volume ramp you're still below the "planned" volume--don't know the reasoning of course, just another note). 

This is a really long way of saying that I can't imagine you have any way to guage whether or not you have enough of "it" to reach the top 10% of your AG in time.  And I see your feelings echoed by many others who use not having "it" as a crutch to explain their performances in various ways (e.g., see it in the weightloss thread all the time where person x says they could never get below y weight because they've always been bigger.)  If top10% seems too lofty a goal today, make it top 33% for now.  Then 25%.  Then 15%.  I guarantee, if you want it bad enough, you could do it in time.  (Of course, many people don't want it "bad enough" and there's nothing wrong at all with that--may even be good for most. )

Hangloose - I would not jump to that conclusion.

I am starting to coach an age 4-8 track program so I have been reading quite a bit about kids' athletic development. At age 7, kids have a wide wide range of ability just based on the fact that some kids develop more quickly than others. Most of what I have read suggests that conclusions drawn about future athletic prowess prior to puberty can tend to be very inaccurate. As always, there will be exceptions either way.

Put me down squarely in the "it takes both effort and ability to be an elite" camp.

Look, all of us have natural talent of one kind or another. I have many natural gifts, but endurance sports is not one of them. However, that's one of the reasons I like triathlon training. It's a challenge for me. It's going to be a long time before I max out my natural ability.

On the other hand, calculus has been boring for a long time.

Well, I did the work on your logs.  You can do the work on mine.  I started swimming & running in Sept. 2004.  Everything I've done training-wise is in my logs.  My only "background" was that I was a very good rower in HS in college about 15 years before I started tris.  I was easily 15lbs overweight (down 25 since then) and out of shape when I started.  I'm probably not top 10% in strong fields the way Jorge is, but I'm getting very close.

I don't really know what this tells you though.  What it tells me is that with consistent work, you can get better.  Imagine that! 

That's exactly the point I am trying to make in particular at our level (AG) How important is for YOU to improve in this sport. For some BTers Tris represents a lifestyle and for others it is just hobby and that marks a BIG difference. Some of us strive to be the best we can be within the sport and we are willing to make many sacrifices which for those who consider it a hobby just don’t make sense.

I am single, I rarely go out socializing with my non-tri friends, I do stuff with tri friends but it is training oriented, I use my spare time for coaching/training/resting and plan my vacations around racing. Why? Because that’s what makes sense to me right now because it makes me feel good physically and mentally, because It gives me energy and most important because it makes ME HAPPY! For someone else, spending time with their kids, spouses, traveling, working, studying, playing music, golf, painting, etc is what makes them happy and that’s what make sense to them.

Well, I did the work on your logs.  You can do the work on mine.  I started swimming & running in Sept. 2004.  Everything I've done training-wise is in my logs.  My only "background" was that I was a very good rower in HS in college about 15 years before I started tris.  I was easily 15lbs overweight (down 25 since then) and out of shape when I started.  I'm probably not top 10% in strong fields the way Jorge is, but I'm getting very close.

I don't really know what this tells you though.  What it tells me is that with consistent work, you can get better.  Imagine that! 

Maybe we just have different expectations. I've been pretty pleased with my progress. :)

Cough cough ...... top 5 overall and AG winner at a hellacious HIM last weekend ...... cough cough .....

JohnnyKay is too modest as always.

For anyone interested, since we got on the topic of BQ'ing, here's an article from Running Times, talking about what is needed for different time goals in terms of mileage and such.

http://runningtimes.com/rt/articles/?id=9906&page=2&c=2