login
SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 65)
-
No new posts
|
 2013-08-27 10:07 PM in reply to: TSimone |
Champion  7595     Columbia, South Carolina |  Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again...Originally posted by TSimone Looking for some advice. Last Thursday I tore up my calf again, which is the third time in four years. It happened 5 minutes into an easy run. I did myself no favors by continuing that run and then trying to run long yesterday. So today I'm hobbling. I've already had one long layoff this year to heal my achilles (same leg) and was looking to keep the consistency that I have built since May. The HM I was planning is no big deal to me, just a carrot out there, and I'll DNS without hesitation. Anyway, should I completely shut down the running and move to a bike and swim focus or give this a modest rest and try to run again? In the grand scheme, I'm taking the long view as my priority, which is the 2014 tri season. I haven't managed injuries intelligently in the past, if that's relevant. Here's my rule (which I stole from reading stuff from top marathoners -- who are presumably even less prone to injury than you or me): if it is very uncomfortable to run without changing my gait in some way (ANY way, even the most subtle of differences), then I don't run. Given that you are taking the long view, I think you should take a month off from running then make a concerted and consistent and committed effort to come back. You can maintain quite a lot of run fitness by pool running, which has the added benefit of making you mentally tough as nails. |
| 2013-08-27 11:42 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by GoFaster Based on last year, I know that the weekly TSS is low, but how would consider the number/strength of the long rides in preparing to race HIM distance? I recognize that I need to focus on the overall, but am curious about your opinions on those longer rides. What did these look like again? |
| 2013-08-28 4:32 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by GoFaster Based on last year, I know that the weekly TSS is low, but how would consider the number/strength of the long rides in preparing to race HIM distance? I recognize that I need to focus on the overall, but am curious about your opinions on those longer rides. What did these look like again? about 1 long ride a week, most around 3hr, a few 4hr, about .81-.82 IF. Neil, I think those were good My comment came more from this year, where I don't think you've done a 3hr ride. |
| 2013-08-28 7:40 AM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Both should give around 150 to 170 TSS points What zone is your average HR for the HIM fall in ? My zone 3 is 136-153 and we have similar zones I believe What do your TP zones look like ? Recalculated the scores (thanks Arend - would certainly not have looked there for a recalc function). The TSS went up to 167.7, but the hrTSS stayed put. My Z3 (of 5) is currently set at 146-159 (thinking that Z4 or threshold is about 160 for me on the run). To get a higher hrTSS, these would have to be too low, making it seem as though I was in a higher zone than actual. The majority of the ride was actually in Z2 as a result. Power is the answer, of course, but the divergence given the current settings is curious. Thanks for the suggestions/thoughts. Matt |
| 2013-08-28 8:05 AM in reply to: 0 |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by brigby1 about 1 long ride a week, most around 3hr, a few 4hr, about .81-.82 IF. Neil, I think those were good My comment came more from this year, where I don't think you've done a 3hr ride. Originally posted by GoFaster Based on last year, I know that the weekly TSS is low, but how would consider the number/strength of the long rides in preparing to race HIM distance? I recognize that I need to focus on the overall, but am curious about your opinions on those longer rides. What did these look like again? Ok, are those generally done at a fairly steady pace? Or done with say an IM level baseline and sections at HIM or even Oly power? Anyway, my suggestion would be to keep going with having several rides a week that work right around threshold and/or VO2. You have been doing this, but may need to up it some in ways like Arend suggested before. And to also add in additional riding that generates a lot of aerobic stress, a higher TSS. Rides like the longer ones you've done would seem to be good for that because you can do so much more of it than threshold or higher. When you get closer to race time next year, then you'll work more on race specific demands (this is what a "build" should really do), but in the off-season work on increasing all areas of the aerobic system so that you have a stronger "base" for the build to go off of. ETA: You could add more riding to the harder days too. And by that I mean sub-threshold riding, like in Z2 or 3. Make sure the hard parts are where they are supposed to be, and then whatever else you can fit in around it. Edited by brigby1 2013-08-28 8:17 AM |
| 2013-08-28 8:49 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by marcag about 1 long ride a week, most around 3hr, a few 4hr, about .81-.82 IF. Neil, I think those were good My comment came more from this year, where I don't think you've done a 3hr ride. Ok, are those generally done at a fairly steady pace? Or done with say an IM level baseline and sections at HIM or even Oly power? Interesting question and I'd like your opinion on the benefits of the two approaches - long stready vs long with mix efforts Last year I did all my 'long' (3-4hr) rides at constant tempo pace, like Neil did. This year my longer rides have much more of a mix. For example, this weekend I did a 4hr, with a 2x20threshold and a 2x20 tempo and the rest IM pace http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/YJCOAFROA4GTH3AN2XQPYPEB5A The long steady rides give you the confidence for race time because it's a ride you've done over and over, but the later seems to build more fitness IMO |
| 2013-08-28 9:32 AM in reply to: marcag |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by marcag about 1 long ride a week, most around 3hr, a few 4hr, about .81-.82 IF. Neil, I think those were good My comment came more from this year, where I don't think you've done a 3hr ride. Ok, are those generally done at a fairly steady pace? Or done with say an IM level baseline and sections at HIM or even Oly power? Interesting question and I'd like your opinion on the benefits of the two approaches - long stready vs long with mix efforts Last year I did all my 'long' (3-4hr) rides at constant tempo pace, like Neil did. This year my longer rides have much more of a mix. For example, this weekend I did a 4hr, with a 2x20threshold and a 2x20 tempo and the rest IM pace http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/YJCOAFROA4GTH3AN2XQPYPEB5A The long steady rides give you the confidence for race time because it's a ride you've done over and over, but the later seems to build more fitness IMO Ben beat me to the question - I was wondering about mixing the intensity vs a more steady tempo. Thoughts/opinions on trying to build throughout the ride (this may be far too agressive, not sure, but would certainly be tough. i.e. 30min @ 75%, 30min @ 80%, 30min @ 85%, 30min @90%, 10min @ 95%, 65-70% remainder of the ride. |
| 2013-08-28 9:33 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by brigby1 about 1 long ride a week, most around 3hr, a few 4hr, about .81-.82 IF. Neil, I think those were good My comment came more from this year, where I don't think you've done a 3hr ride. Originally posted by GoFaster Based on last year, I know that the weekly TSS is low, but how would consider the number/strength of the long rides in preparing to race HIM distance? I recognize that I need to focus on the overall, but am curious about your opinions on those longer rides. What did these look like again? Ok, are those generally done at a fairly steady pace? Or done with say an IM level baseline and sections at HIM or even Oly power? Anyway, my suggestion would be to keep going with having several rides a week that work right around threshold and/or VO2. You have been doing this, but may need to up it some in ways like Arend suggested before. And to also add in additional riding that generates a lot of aerobic stress, a higher TSS. Rides like the longer ones you've done would seem to be good for that because you can do so much more of it than threshold or higher. When you get closer to race time next year, then you'll work more on race specific demands (this is what a "build" should really do), but in the off-season work on increasing all areas of the aerobic system so that you have a stronger "base" for the build to go off of. ETA: You could add more riding to the harder days too. And by that I mean sub-threshold riding, like in Z2 or 3. Make sure the hard parts are where they are supposed to be, and then whatever else you can fit in around it. Ben, what's the benefit of addnig 15-20min of Z2 riding to the harder days? |
| 2013-08-28 9:46 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Last year (IM training) most of my long rides were done at a fairly steady effort - this year (HIM training) they have been more structured. Typically something like what Marc showed or 4 x 15, 3 x 30 etc. I have found the structured ones to be more effective as it gives me something to focus on. I've also done a few longish rides where I just tried to stay in a particular power range. Mentally that is more challenging for me but is more race-like so probably a good idea to do from time to time. I've done a fair bit of that extra Z2/Z3 riding at the end of a hard workout. It's usually more Z3 than Z2. Just something that makes you work a bit but isn't a huge stressor. At first it was a bit of an eye opener for me. I would do the first part (the hard part) of a workout and then would be thinking there was no way I could do the extra stuff. But sure enough I was (almost) always able to finish it. |
| 2013-08-28 10:11 AM in reply to: axteraa |
Expert 1260 Norton Shores, MI | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by axteraa Last year (IM training) most of my long rides were done at a fairly steady effort - this year (HIM training) they have been more structured. Typically something like what Marc showed or 4 x 15, 3 x 30 etc. I have found the structured ones to be more effective as it gives me something to focus on. I've also done a few longish rides where I just tried to stay in a particular power range. Mentally that is more challenging for me but is more race-like so probably a good idea to do from time to time. I've done a fair bit of that extra Z2/Z3 riding at the end of a hard workout. It's usually more Z3 than Z2. Just something that makes you work a bit but isn't a huge stressor. At first it was a bit of an eye opener for me. I would do the first part (the hard part) of a workout and then would be thinking there was no way I could do the extra stuff. But sure enough I was (almost) always able to finish it. When I was training for HIM, I would typically mix up my long days, similar to Marc and Arend. Sometimes I would add 2x20' at FTP with the remainder mostly Z3 and sometimes I would typically just ride steady around Z3. Both are good in long course prep. The additional time is just a mechanism to get you a higher TSS which goes back to that chart Marc put together. I would add 20-30' of Z3 time on my longer weekend rides this past winter (after doing FTP or VO2 main sets). It actually seems to be much easier after a tough main set. |
| 2013-08-28 11:12 AM in reply to: rymac |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Welp, I might be part of these discussions in only an academic way for a while. (commence whine) On an easy 8-miler today with Kim - felt great, going very easy and with good form. At mile 7.05 my L hammy just kind of gave out on me, and by mile 7.07 it was clear the run, and maybe my season, was over. Walk/easy jogged (felt the same as walking, discomfort-wise) the last mile after sending Kim on ahead. Might be just a tweak, but feels more like a pull or serious strain, right where the hamstring inserts on the pelvis (hurst to rotate my body, worse CCW than CW). Hoping it's just a momentary niggle - will know more by tonight/tomorrow. NOT pleased. OK, whine session here concluded (thanks for the vent). Back to power discussions, baby! Matt |
| 2013-08-28 11:35 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by brigby1 Ben, what's the benefit of addnig 15-20min of Z2 riding to the harder days? Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by brigby1 about 1 long ride a week, most around 3hr, a few 4hr, about .81-.82 IF. Neil, I think those were good My comment came more from this year, where I don't think you've done a 3hr ride. Originally posted by GoFaster Based on last year, I know that the weekly TSS is low, but how would consider the number/strength of the long rides in preparing to race HIM distance? I recognize that I need to focus on the overall, but am curious about your opinions on those longer rides. What did these look like again? Ok, are those generally done at a fairly steady pace? Or done with say an IM level baseline and sections at HIM or even Oly power? Anyway, my suggestion would be to keep going with having several rides a week that work right around threshold and/or VO2. You have been doing this, but may need to up it some in ways like Arend suggested before. And to also add in additional riding that generates a lot of aerobic stress, a higher TSS. Rides like the longer ones you've done would seem to be good for that because you can do so much more of it than threshold or higher. When you get closer to race time next year, then you'll work more on race specific demands (this is what a "build" should really do), but in the off-season work on increasing all areas of the aerobic system so that you have a stronger "base" for the build to go off of. ETA: You could add more riding to the harder days too. And by that I mean sub-threshold riding, like in Z2 or 3. Make sure the hard parts are where they are supposed to be, and then whatever else you can fit in around it. As the other guys said, just additional riding. Biking has some flexibility in this. It matters less how you get that sort of riding in, just so long as you do it. Added to hard days, bigger long days, an additional day of riding, not too important which. |
| 2013-08-28 11:58 AM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Welp, I might be part of these discussions in only an academic way for a while. (commence whine) On an easy 8-miler today with Kim - felt great, going very easy and with good form. At mile 7.05 my L hammy just kind of gave out on me, and by mile 7.07 it was clear the run, and maybe my season, was over. Walk/easy jogged (felt the same as walking, discomfort-wise) the last mile after sending Kim on ahead. Might be just a tweak, but feels more like a pull or serious strain, right where the hamstring inserts on the pelvis (hurst to rotate my body, worse CCW than CW). Hoping it's just a momentary niggle - will know more by tonight/tomorrow. NOT pleased. OK, whine session here concluded (thanks for the vent). Back to power discussions, baby! Matt Sorry to hear that Matt, hopefully it's nothing serious. I had a few worrisome niggles shortly after Mont Tremblant that didn't amount to anything. |
| 2013-08-28 12:13 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by brigby1 Ben, what's the benefit of addnig 15-20min of Z2 riding to the harder days? Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by brigby1 about 1 long ride a week, most around 3hr, a few 4hr, about .81-.82 IF. Neil, I think those were good My comment came more from this year, where I don't think you've done a 3hr ride. Originally posted by GoFaster Based on last year, I know that the weekly TSS is low, but how would consider the number/strength of the long rides in preparing to race HIM distance? I recognize that I need to focus on the overall, but am curious about your opinions on those longer rides. What did these look like again? Ok, are those generally done at a fairly steady pace? Or done with say an IM level baseline and sections at HIM or even Oly power? Anyway, my suggestion would be to keep going with having several rides a week that work right around threshold and/or VO2. You have been doing this, but may need to up it some in ways like Arend suggested before. And to also add in additional riding that generates a lot of aerobic stress, a higher TSS. Rides like the longer ones you've done would seem to be good for that because you can do so much more of it than threshold or higher. When you get closer to race time next year, then you'll work more on race specific demands (this is what a "build" should really do), but in the off-season work on increasing all areas of the aerobic system so that you have a stronger "base" for the build to go off of. ETA: You could add more riding to the harder days too. And by that I mean sub-threshold riding, like in Z2 or 3. Make sure the hard parts are where they are supposed to be, and then whatever else you can fit in around it. As the other guys said, just additional riding. Biking has some flexibility in this. It matters less how you get that sort of riding in, just so long as you do it. Added to hard days, bigger long days, an additional day of riding, not too important which. In response to all three of you - got it. Simply riding more and increasing the TSS is going to be a benefit - assuming the hard work is also being done. |
| 2013-08-28 12:16 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Welp, I might be part of these discussions in only an academic way for a while. (commence whine) On an easy 8-miler today with Kim - felt great, going very easy and with good form. At mile 7.05 my L hammy just kind of gave out on me, and by mile 7.07 it was clear the run, and maybe my season, was over. Walk/easy jogged (felt the same as walking, discomfort-wise) the last mile after sending Kim on ahead. Might be just a tweak, but feels more like a pull or serious strain, right where the hamstring inserts on the pelvis (hurst to rotate my body, worse CCW than CW). Hoping it's just a momentary niggle - will know more by tonight/tomorrow. NOT pleased. OK, whine session here concluded (thanks for the vent). Back to power discussions, baby! Matt Fingers crossed for both you and Tom - I hope nothing too serious. Perhaps not the post to add this to (or maybe it is), but I've had three runs in the Hokas so far - nothing "long", and really really like them. The cushioned feeling during the run certainly takes some getting used to, but I'm now enjoying the feel of the shoe. That plus the fact that I've had zero, and I mean zero, calf/soleus tightness or pain during or after each run, has so far made this look like money really well spent. |
| 2013-08-28 12:24 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
| Payson, AZ | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Welp, I might be part of these discussions in only an academic way for a while. (commence whine) On an easy 8-miler today with Kim - felt great, going very easy and with good form. At mile 7.05 my L hammy just kind of gave out on me, and by mile 7.07 it was clear the run, and maybe my season, was over. Walk/easy jogged (felt the same as walking, discomfort-wise) the last mile after sending Kim on ahead. Might be just a tweak, but feels more like a pull or serious strain, right where the hamstring inserts on the pelvis (hurst to rotate my body, worse CCW than CW). Hoping it's just a momentary niggle - will know more by tonight/tomorrow. NOT pleased. OK, whine session here concluded (thanks for the vent). Back to power discussions, baby! Matt Sorry to hear about that Matt. Hopefully it is nothing overly serious. Take it easy and reevaluate later. |
| 2013-08-28 2:10 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
| Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Tom - I hope it's just a tweak, and if not, at least something that will recover in a couple of weeks and you can salvage something the rest of the year. I'm feeling a lot more grumpy these days. I suppose it goes with the territory. Just trying to make it through this weekend and I have a recovery week planned which was originally going to be an "optional" rest week, but judging by how I feel now, I'm going to take full advantage of it, then try to hit the last 3 weeks hard. I told my GF that if I ever think of signing up for another IM, remind me of how I feel right now. I give lots of credit to those who can do IM every year...or even multiple IMs. I think I may be a one every 5-7 years kind of guy. |
| 2013-08-28 2:28 PM in reply to: bzgl40 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by bzgl40 Oh no! Sorry Matt :/ Fingers crossed that it's just a weird twingy kinda thing.Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Welp, I might be part of these discussions in only an academic way for a while. (commence whine) On an easy 8-miler today with Kim - felt great, going very easy and with good form. At mile 7.05 my L hammy just kind of gave out on me, and by mile 7.07 it was clear the run, and maybe my season, was over. Walk/easy jogged (felt the same as walking, discomfort-wise) the last mile after sending Kim on ahead. Might be just a tweak, but feels more like a pull or serious strain, right where the hamstring inserts on the pelvis (hurst to rotate my body, worse CCW than CW). Hoping it's just a momentary niggle - will know more by tonight/tomorrow. NOT pleased. OK, whine session here concluded (thanks for the vent). Back to power discussions, baby! Matt Sorry to hear about that Matt. Hopefully it is nothing overly serious. Take it easy and reevaluate later. |
 2013-08-28 4:59 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred D 2013-08-28 5:00 PM |
| 2013-08-28 5:17 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Expert 1416 San Luis Obispo, CA | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by Jason N
I told my GF that if I ever think of signing up for another IM, remind me of how I feel right now. I give lots of credit to those who can do IM every year...or even multiple IMs. I think I may be a one every 5-7 years kind of guy. I think doing IMs is somewhat (not as hard but an analogy) like childbirth. When you train for one you tend to say exactly as you just did, and then we sign up for another one when the pain and exhaustion is over. People commonly say at birth "I'm never doing this again" and yet they sometimes actually have more kids....
BTW, what have I done!!??!!??
2014 IRONMAN Mont-Tremblant
Congratulations! You are now registered for the 2014 Subaru IRONMAN Mont-Tremblant. Please check the event's official website for updates: http://ironmanmonttremblant.com/ RaceDate: August 17th, 2014 Please notify [email protected] immediately if your race information changes.
Congrats on your next "baby" Fred! |
| 2013-08-28 6:06 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Nice Fred! Are you still doing the 70.3 as well? |
| 2013-08-28 6:13 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by Jason N Tom - I hope it's just a tweak, and if not, at least something that will recover in a couple of weeks and you can salvage something the rest of the year. I'm feeling a lot more grumpy these days. I suppose it goes with the territory. Just trying to make it through this weekend and I have a recovery week planned which was originally going to be an "optional" rest week, but judging by how I feel now, I'm going to take full advantage of it, then try to hit the last 3 weeks hard. I told my GF that if I ever think of signing up for another IM, remind me of how I feel right now. I give lots of credit to those who can do IM every year...or even multiple IMs. I think I may be a one every 5-7 years kind of guy. You are almost there Jason! I could tell you to just imagine how nice a trip to Hawaii will be when things are getting rough but I guess that doesn't really do much for you eh? |
| 2013-08-28 6:55 PM in reply to: axteraa |
| Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by axteraa Nice Fred! Are you still doing the 70.3 as well? Did you guys register for 70.3 ? I think it sold out |
| 2013-08-28 7:28 PM in reply to: axteraa |
| Subject: RE: Hello all -- I'm going to try this again... Originally posted by axteraa You are almost there Jason! I could tell you to just imagine how nice a trip to Hawaii will be when things are getting rough but I guess that doesn't really do much for you eh? LOL...Don't worry, Kona itself is enough motivation to get me through the rough patches. If it were another IM though...I think I would have to battle thoughts that I could always do it better "next time" and skip or skimp on more workouts. There likely is no next time for me and Kona. Fred - I'm greatly disappointed in you. I thought I was so close to turning you into a bike racer next year. I think I've almost got Arend on board. I suppose that Shiv isn't going for sale after all huh? For you to sign up, I'll at least take it as a sign that work and injury issues have settled down enough for you that you think you can train for an IM. So that's a good thing. As for me...I suppose I've heard the child birth comparison and I sort of get it. I think for me though I get a lot of enjoyment out of training knowing that I'm preparing to race. For this IM, I feel like I'm training to prepare for survival. LOL. Since I don't know what to really expect, maybe my view will change after the race. Maybe riding conservatively, and doing a run 9:30ish pace and walk the aid station strategy will seem a lot more like racing than what I think it will be. |
| 2013-08-28 7:31 PM in reply to: axteraa |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
|
|
|
|
|
| ||||
|
| |||
| ||||
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK