SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! (Page 65)
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2014-09-24 6:42 AM in reply to: spudone |
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2014-09-24 9:24 AM in reply to: Fred D |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Can't commit to a swim focus as I'm working on a run focus for now....but I did have a decent swim this morning. After taking a few weeks off, I can definitely feel that the effort is harder, but the paces don't seem to have been significantly impacted. I am also working on fixing my flip turns as they're sloppy and slow, so that's requiring a bit more mental effort, which somehow translates to physical effort! FINALLY had a good run last night! The weather's cooled down a bit (I think it was something like 86F, feels like 86F....instead of 94F, feels like 108F!!) and my legs are recovering. It was nice to not struggle through a run finally. And the bike....still sitting (disassembled) in my bike bag. Maybe I'll get it out and go for a ride this weekend....heh. |
2014-09-24 4:00 PM in reply to: Fred D |
Master 2621 Mechanicsburg, PA | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by Fred D First swim of swim focus in the books: Ended up doing something different as I met friends at the pool. 3,000 yards total.
Nice job......but you did't even do your own workout. ;( Are you posting another work out or should i just do the 1st one?
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2014-09-24 4:04 PM in reply to: BrotherTri |
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2014-09-24 5:34 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 2621 Mechanicsburg, PA | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! I was going to do the first workout tomorrow unless you were to post one. My workouts are boring and i pretty much do the same thing like.... 500 WU build 100 kick fins/board 6x50 on :50 100 kick fins/board 3x200 on 3:00 100 kick fins/board 3x300 pull w/paddles / 200 swim 100ez 3300 No rest anywhere other on :50 and 3:00. ie after 500 put fins on and go, after 100 kick take fins off wait till the top or bottom on the clock and go. Get the idea? Edited by BrotherTri 2014-09-24 5:46 PM |
2014-09-24 5:38 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 2621 Mechanicsburg, PA | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! I turned OFF the rich text editor. Now formatting is better btw I have been know to do 4x800's So you don't want that Edited by BrotherTri 2014-09-24 5:39 PM |
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2014-09-24 5:50 PM in reply to: BrotherTri |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Aw, come on - if you all are going to really do this, then I say "KICK" it off with a bang: 400 Warm Up w/ fins and board 12x100 free (build 3x 1-4) (1-4 free, 5-8 pull, 9-12 pull w/ paddles) 300 choice warm down That is basically TJ's set front he kicking thread from a couple of months ago. I tried it out back then - it is actually not awful - passes quickly, and I did have a sort of kicking breakthrough a couple of weeks later. I added the 12x100 to get the workout to 1.5 hours as that is how long I swim each session. |
2014-09-24 6:33 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
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2014-09-24 9:22 PM in reply to: Fred D |
Champion 6656 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by TankBoy Aw, come on - if you all are going to really do this, then I say "KICK" it off with a bang: 400 Warm Up w/ fins and board 12x100 free (build 3x 1-4) (1-4 free, 5-8 pull, 9-12 pull w/ paddles) 300 choice warm down That is basically TJ's set front he kicking thread from a couple of months ago. I tried it out back then - it is actually not awful - passes quickly, and I did have a sort of kicking breakthrough a couple of weeks later. I added the 12x100 to get the workout to 1.5 hours as that is how long I swim each session. I work this weekend but would like to do that next week sometime! I'll do Rusty's workout prob minus the 12x100. lol. I've got to get my ER application done though. Sigh. I have a chief resident "retreat" this weekend in Vancouver and then application is due on Monday. Swim challenge starts Sept 29. lol. I'll try get one swim in though |
2014-09-25 7:23 AM in reply to: mndymond |
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2014-09-25 8:28 AM in reply to: Fred D |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Hey guys/gals, Haven't been posting much but trying to follow along. I have a question for you all about run ramping up. I've done some fits and spurts past couple years (could check my logs) but haven't been super consistent since fall 2011 when I tried my first marathon. I have a decent aerobic base from riding about 10hrs a week this summer and I feel pretty structurally sound. I've started building my run back up a few weeks ago because I sort of did what I wanted to do as far as bike races and wanted to move on to running again (I guess I have a short attention span)...I have this vision of BQing before I ever try another long course triathlon so I don't feel like being held back by my run....anyway.... Has anyone taken time off from just running but just biked or done something else and then jumped back into running pretty quick. I've read a bunch of stuff on Letsrun but some of those guys are a little crazy...around here you get a lot of the 10% stuff but that just seems ultra conservative for injury prone people and beginners. Kind of a loaded question I guess and after reading it looks like I'm looking for one of anecdotes but really just curious about how some of you may have approached it. Also when I say ramp up...I just started so I've done a couple of 25 mile weeks and I ease off the bike and add runs...will jump up to 35 for a couple and then 45...really looking to probably be running 50-60 miles a week by end of next month. Will probably skip most track and temp days with the group so I don't get lured in and just focus on base miles so I don't over stress. |
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2014-09-25 9:00 AM in reply to: JAYCT |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by JAYCT Hey guys/gals, Haven't been posting much but trying to follow along. I have a question for you all about run ramping up. I've done some fits and spurts past couple years (could check my logs) but haven't been super consistent since fall 2011 when I tried my first marathon. I have a decent aerobic base from riding about 10hrs a week this summer and I feel pretty structurally sound. I've started building my run back up a few weeks ago because I sort of did what I wanted to do as far as bike races and wanted to move on to running again (I guess I have a short attention span)...I have this vision of BQing before I ever try another long course triathlon so I don't feel like being held back by my run....anyway.... Has anyone taken time off from just running but just biked or done something else and then jumped back into running pretty quick. I've read a bunch of stuff on Letsrun but some of those guys are a little crazy...around here you get a lot of the 10% stuff but that just seems ultra conservative for injury prone people and beginners. Kind of a loaded question I guess and after reading it looks like I'm looking for one of anecdotes but really just curious about how some of you may have approached it. Also when I say ramp up...I just started so I've done a couple of 25 mile weeks and I ease off the bike and add runs...will jump up to 35 for a couple and then 45...really looking to probably be running 50-60 miles a week by end of next month. Will probably skip most track and temp days with the group so I don't get lured in and just focus on base miles so I don't over stress. Jason, since you're in the 20's for weekly mileage, I would actually encourage including faster running. Figure out how to do that. You know about building threshold and other level work from the bike workouts that you do, but running also has some skill involved and this will help your stride development. Since you haven't run much (or at all) in so long you will want to do this. I would look to figure out how to include this before you really ramp up your mileage more. This doesn't mean to bury yourself in the harder runs, just to find something that you can work in. My running has been down significantly for an entire year and has picked up noticeably since August when I started putting more back in. It was a notable jump in mileage, but it's actually only up to about the same as you've been doing (mid 20's per week). Just putting in a pair of runs that include faster running. In total, I think each faster run will have 10-20 minutes of such running included, broken into various intervals depending on the goal of the session. Once in awhile a little more with a 4 x 6' in there every few weeks, but that's it. Things look like they could really be taking off with this. I do plan to keep increasing the mileage, but also need to make sure I can consistently do the faster running. |
2014-09-25 9:30 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Thanks, I go back and forth on the faster running. I end up doing a bunch of tempo as I feel. I also try to do a few strides a couple times a week. I have been to the track a couple times but I was thinking of skipping that for awhile as I jump up to around 40mpw and then stabilize for a couple weeks. Most of the stuff I take is from the Daniel's book with an eye on the Advanced Marathoning book as well to gauge base mile readiness for one of the programs. In that context are you doing more T, I, R or strides overall? I know you are familar with the daniels stuff. I was thinking more strides for the skill aspect for awhile until I have better legs. I think I could get away with 2 quality sessions and still build as long as I'm not stupid with my other 4 or 5 runs. |
2014-09-25 9:47 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by JAYCT Hey guys/gals, Haven't been posting much but trying to follow along. I have a question for you all about run ramping up. I've done some fits and spurts past couple years (could check my logs) but haven't been super consistent since fall 2011 when I tried my first marathon. I have a decent aerobic base from riding about 10hrs a week this summer and I feel pretty structurally sound. I've started building my run back up a few weeks ago because I sort of did what I wanted to do as far as bike races and wanted to move on to running again (I guess I have a short attention span)...I have this vision of BQing before I ever try another long course triathlon so I don't feel like being held back by my run....anyway.... Has anyone taken time off from just running but just biked or done something else and then jumped back into running pretty quick. I've read a bunch of stuff on Letsrun but some of those guys are a little crazy...around here you get a lot of the 10% stuff but that just seems ultra conservative for injury prone people and beginners. Kind of a loaded question I guess and after reading it looks like I'm looking for one of anecdotes but really just curious about how some of you may have approached it. Also when I say ramp up...I just started so I've done a couple of 25 mile weeks and I ease off the bike and add runs...will jump up to 35 for a couple and then 45...really looking to probably be running 50-60 miles a week by end of next month. Will probably skip most track and temp days with the group so I don't get lured in and just focus on base miles so I don't over stress. Jason, since you're in the 20's for weekly mileage, I would actually encourage including faster running. Figure out how to do that. You know about building threshold and other level work from the bike workouts that you do, but running also has some skill involved and this will help your stride development. Since you haven't run much (or at all) in so long you will want to do this. I would look to figure out how to include this before you really ramp up your mileage more. This doesn't mean to bury yourself in the harder runs, just to find something that you can work in. My running has been down significantly for an entire year and has picked up noticeably since August when I started putting more back in. It was a notable jump in mileage, but it's actually only up to about the same as you've been doing (mid 20's per week). Just putting in a pair of runs that include faster running. In total, I think each faster run will have 10-20 minutes of such running included, broken into various intervals depending on the goal of the session. Once in awhile a little more with a 4 x 6' in there every few weeks, but that's it. Things look like they could really be taking off with this. I do plan to keep increasing the mileage, but also need to make sure I can consistently do the faster running. based on my own experience this past year I agree with Ben. This year I had the opportunity to work with a dedicated run coach in coordination with my triathlon coach. One of the significant changes we made from years past was prior to beginning true, traditional "speed work" on the track is that we first inserted a block of what he called "speed play" work into my weekly run schedule. These days usually consisted of 15 minutes of walking & dynamic warm up (I have a standard routine that I do religiously as the beginning of every run workout), then 20 minutes of very easy running, slowly working up into the middle of my base effort. Next I would do a series of ladder drills to get my feet moving quickly and more importantly ground contact shortened up. Starting out I would do the speed play work that would consist of something like: 10x: By the end I would be doing a more "advanced" version that would look something like: 30 seconds EZ jog In this one each round you change the EZ fast part from 30 to 45, then 60, then 45, and 30 again, so that progression is "one time through." Do it 3 times through, so basically 15 rounds. In all of these I would finish by warming down with 5 more minutes of very easy running, then 5 minutes of walking. For my money I also put a lot of stock in hard, short swim intervals for cardiovascular development (I can do a lot more hard 100s in the pool than I can hard 400s on the track), as well as doing most of my easy runs on soft surfaces/trails to build much-needed lateral strength. |
2014-09-25 9:59 AM in reply to: TankBoy |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Good insight Rusty, Thank you. I do like those short ones. I had an old coach that used to prescribe the 15x30"/30" off stuff and found it really helped with speed/form while not totally destroying me like doing 800s or something would. Love the trail comment as well. I try to get my dog out a couple times a week thru some technical trails that I feel like really helps with the structural integrity and strength. This is all good stuff. |
2014-09-25 9:59 AM in reply to: Fred D |
Master 2621 Mechanicsburg, PA | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by Fred D Good swim this am! MS: All 50s E/F What in the world is this? Come on translate please. I did Fred's 1st swim workout. Nice swim bit that's a lot of rest more than I am use to. 1st part was simple and the 50 builds were :37-:33 per 50yds. The 25's were :14-:16 most at :14-:15. 200 pulls with paddles at 2:50s. Now the main set was weird for me. I don't do IM's and my Fly in real bad. I also did the 4x 50 in IM's order then :10 rest. So not sure if that was correct. The 3rd set of IM's was felt the best as my rhythm improved. 200 were @2:50's. Then the 4x 50's were so mixed up in timing that the 1st set was :38's on :10 rest last set was slower. That all I can remember other than my 910xt recorded 1375yds in 1:01. Btw I did this after a 3.5 mile run. |
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2014-09-25 11:15 AM in reply to: JAYCT |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by JAYCT Thanks, I go back and forth on the faster running. I end up doing a bunch of tempo as I feel. I also try to do a few strides a couple times a week. I have been to the track a couple times but I was thinking of skipping that for awhile as I jump up to around 40mpw and then stabilize for a couple weeks. Most of the stuff I take is from the Daniel's book with an eye on the Advanced Marathoning book as well to gauge base mile readiness for one of the programs. In that context are you doing more T, I, R or strides overall? I know you are familiar with the daniels stuff. I was thinking more strides for the skill aspect for awhile until I have better legs. I think I could get away with 2 quality sessions and still build as long as I'm not stupid with my other 4 or 5 runs. My stride has felt out of whack, so in order to help rebuild it more I've been pushing more of the R-pace work. Following along with the short race prep in Daniels. It seems to split between R-pace and T-pace and once in awhile touches on some I-pace. Other distances will move around with this balance. I've found the R-pacing more helpful to this as there is more of it than strides. The strides seem more to help keep your stride going well and briefly open things up. The R-pace workouts have more specific pacing to it and there is more of it, so it has been helping development more so than just doing strides have. I still fit in a few strides throughout other runs during the week, on top of the faster workouts. My fastest running has come with a good deal of volume, but it also had very regular faster running. Not lots necessarily, but very regular in the sense of getting it in once or twice a week every week for at least several consecutive months. If you have the Daniels book, I think it could do you well to read it again and see what comes to mind for your development. Not to focus on the marathon sections (not yet), but just think of being a runner again. See what sticks out more that maybe could use some development. Develop some well roundedness as a runner again and then see about more marathon specific and a BQ. You've shown some strong running in the past, so you might be able to go directly at the marathon, but I think taking a step back and looking at running in general first could help you even more when thinking longer term. May or may not end up going for the BQ, but will develop as a runner. |
2014-09-25 11:55 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by JAYCT Good insight Rusty, Thank you. I do like those short ones. I had an old coach that used to prescribe the 15x30"/30" off stuff and found it really helped with speed/form while not totally destroying me like doing 800s or something would. Love the trail comment as well. I try to get my dog out a couple times a week thru some technical trails that I feel like really helps with the structural integrity and strength. This is all good stuff. Permission to geek this up ? One way I like to track my run fitness is the pace I can hold for a given HR. So I have over time analyzed my runs and plotted pace against HR over a 10km (6mile) run on similar roads. I have a set for my place in Ottawa, Montreal and the cottage since the terrain is quite different Here's the plot. X axis pace, Left is faster than right. So of course you want to be low HR (top to bottom) and faster (left is fastest). Pace is in m/km, so 4.5 is a 4:30/km or about 7:12/mile The more to the left a line is, the better. I can go faster on less beats per minute My worst fitness is this summer. The Green line The red line was around MT 70.3 last year (2013). I was in pretty good run shape. My run frequency was about 4-5 times per week and I was doing at least 1 track session and some tempo work, every week. ***** this is the race I beat Fred by 4 sec ****** hahahahaha I will never race him again so I can keep on saying that :-) But what is most interesting is the blue line. This was during this years ST100 100 day challenge. No speed work, no tempo, mostly short runs but running every day. I went back and looked at 2013 and sure enough during the 100 day challenge my line was better than my MT 70.3 line 2012 same thing. I ran every day, 30min per day, no speed work and in Feb I ran my first sub 20 5km. No speed work. I am a strong believer that frequency trumps all. Of course, frequency creates some volume but the key is frequency. Some call it consistency, others frequency, but to run 6-7x per week, even for short runs is an incredible way to build some speed. When I do a run focus again I will do the ST100 and build frequency. Several weeks from the end I will start laering on some speed work and tempo/threshold work. I believe there is a time and a place for it, but I plan to time it to coordiate with things I want to do in the S and B. Edited by marcag 2014-09-25 11:58 AM (Screenshot 2014-09-25 12.43.30.png) Attachments ---------------- Screenshot 2014-09-25 12.43.30.png (67KB - 1 downloads) |
2014-09-25 4:05 PM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! |
2014-09-25 4:13 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! skratch. low carb, high electrolyte...relatively |
2014-09-25 5:36 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Master 2621 Mechanicsburg, PA | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! I use Skratch. I do well on it. It's sweeter than HEED to me but I don't use HEED full strength only 1/2 - 1 scoop per 24 oz water. Skratch has a very small scoop and I would only use 1 level scoop per 24 oz. |
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2014-09-25 6:57 PM in reply to: BrotherTri |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2014-09-25 8:03 PM in reply to: marcag |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! The frequency for running is another good thing to bring up. Volume through frequency. It doesn't stack up as well as bike volume tends to. |
2014-09-26 7:35 AM in reply to: marcag |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! Marc your geekery is always welcome! I like that chart. I like the frequency as well. It is obviously harder to accomplish during triathlon specific training unless you are getting those 20-30' runs off the bike in from time to time but for my purposes if I'm only riding a couple times a week it is pretty easy to get 6 days in. I appreciate everyone's take. I have some good thoughts on how I'd like to proceed. I'll also post this link to a an old school run video I came across that I found very entertaining that you might like. http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/on-the-run-1979 |
2014-09-26 8:12 AM in reply to: Jason N |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! I use Skratch too. I like the flavor (pineapple and raspberry) and have had no issues with it. You looking to make a change? |
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