SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 71)

http://sostriathlon.com/

and Chris, if you don't get into that, there is always this.

http://www.otillo.se/

SOS looks awesome!   What's the water temp like on those swims? Looked but didn't see how you get your running shoes after each of the swims--they look point to point.

I generally do the plan but modify the distances slightly

A 35 mpw week would look like this for me.  4, 4, 6, 4, 6, 11.

A 45 mpw week would look like this.  4, 4, 8, 4, 8, 15 

My peak weeks for IM training will be 52 mpw.  Will look like 4, 6.5, 9, 6.5, 9, 17

If all I was doing was running, I would follow the plan more closely as far as how he recommends distributing the distances among the 6 runs.  But I just don't have that much time to run that kind of mileage during the mid week.

Where the heck's the bike?

How do you "carry" shoes when you swim? Is there an established system--bag you drag or something?

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by TSimone

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by switch

Still don't know what SOS is. Bueller? Bueller?

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Curious to hear if any of you supplement your run training with elliptical time and how that's worked for you.

http://sostriathlon.com/

and Chris, if you don't get into that, there is always this.

http://www.otillo.se/

How hard could Otillo actually be?  Look at all the breaks you get in between runs...

OH MY!

SOS looks awesome!   What's the water temp like on those swims? Looked but didn't see how you get your running shoes after each of the swims--they look point to point.

Carry them with you.

Where the heck's the bike?

Bike's first--just 30. You'd hate that

How do you "carry" shoes when you swim? Is there an established system--bag you drag or something?

I think you self support after the bike. Probably have to carry a bag on the swim. It's a beautiful area. This time of year (it's been a pretty cool summer) the lakes are prob high 60's to low/mid 70's.  

Seriously!  Too much run, not enough bike. 

Thanks Jason

All I can say is wow - those peak weeks look tough.  I know you're doing most of your runs at a very easy, conservative pace, would you say these fall under "long run" or more "recovery run" pacing?  How do you balance the riding and swimming with this much running?

X2! Just calculated at a 9min/mi that's just under 8 hours.  Dang! Very curious as to how much riding you get in that week.

Originally posted by kcarroll

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by TSimone

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by switch

Still don't know what SOS is. Bueller? Bueller?

------

Curious to hear if any of you supplement your run training with elliptical time and how that's worked for you.

http://sostriathlon.com/

and Chris, if you don't get into that, there is always this.

http://www.otillo.se/

How hard could Otillo actually be?  Look at all the breaks you get in between runs...

OH MY!

SOS looks awesome!   What's the water temp like on those swims? Looked but didn't see how you get your running shoes after each of the swims--they look point to point.

Carry them with you.

Where the heck's the bike?

Bike's first--just 30. You'd hate that

How do you "carry" shoes when you swim? Is there an established system--bag you drag or something?

I think you self support after the bike. Probably have to carry a bag on the swim. It's a beautiful area. This time of year (it's been a pretty cool summer) the lakes are prob high 60's to low/mid 70's.  

Yeah, some people drag them, some shove them down their shorts, etc.   Some leave them on for the last swim

I have a friend that's getting back into tris but just had a baby, so I can't convince him to train for an IM due to the training time.  I figure SOS is better as it removes almost all bike training, the most time consuming.  He's done the race before and is from the area.  There are some aid stations but very few.

Yeah, not much bike, but sometimes doing these odd races is nice to break up tris.  One of my most fun races was a swim from Alcatraz then run across the GG bridge.   Plus it's also a nice break from the 2500 person WTC races.

I don't know about him, but 200 miles on the bike is still very much possible for me on that weekly run total. It'd depend on the type of work I wanted to get in though. More intense in either (let alone both) and the total would likely come down some.

I'll probably ride around 170-190 miles for those peak weeks(2 x 35-40, and 110).  It's going to be a grind no doubt and for now it's just the "plan," not sure if I'll need to back off it.  I've handled 46 miles running and 170 miles riding last week relatively okay.  I could easily ride more if I decided to swim less.  I cut out the VO2 stuff on the bike though in these last few weeks.  So mostly sweet spot on the weekdays and floating between IM and HIM effort on the long ride.

I'm running slower than 9 minute miles...probably closer to 9:30 which in general should be my long run pace if you go by the 60-90 seconds slower than marathon pace rule of thumb. 

I think this approach is working well for me.  The high volume and frequency forces me to run slower which I think has helped me stay away from injury (knock on wood).  It also has humbled me into realizing that I won't be making any heroic efforts during the IM run.  When I was coming off HIM training with lower run and bike volumes, running in the high 8's felt super easy even during long runs.  If I tried that for the first 10 miles of the marathon, I think it would turn into a long day (and night) for me.  Getting used to running 9:30+ and being comfortable with it mentally (that it's okay to run that slow/easy) I think will be a big key to pacing that first half properly.

Yeah...where's the race where you ride, carry your bike across a stream that's 1 foot deep (counts as running and swimming) then ride some more.  Rinse/repeat that.

Cx (sorta). 

Not my cuppa, but it's big here.

Do you think anyone does this barefoot?

I think this is a great attitude to have!

My plan had me at 9:30 for three miles, 9:20 through 10, 9:15 next 10... seemed like a cakewalk based on training!  duh

I can't see your log, but know you train a lot.  The 20+ hours showing in Jason's log make me cringe.  I don't know that I could not train that type of volume.  

Hmm, thought you were on there. Should be fixed now. I'm not doing that run volume now, but have in the past.

Bike Execution: Target through 56 miles; increase by 5 at 56 depending on feeling. 

First 30 minutes - 175-190W

Flats and rollers - 195-205W

Hills - 210-220W

Descents - stupid easy

I lapped the various segments as they easily broke into neat sections.
Segment 1 - T1 to base of Callaghan climb. Mostly downhill but lots of rollers
13.6 miles, 39:02, NP 180, VI 1.21.  Seems to be on pace

 Segment 2 - Callaghan climb
7.8 miles, 39:06, NP 216, VI 1.05.  Again on pace

 Segment 3 - Callaghan descent with a couple steeper ascents
7.8 miles, 17:41, NP 150, VI 1.47

Segment 4 - Callaghan to Whistler. CLimb back to Whistler, mostly up but with some large rollers
9.5 miles, 37:05, NP 197, VI 1.13  - Not that clean or smooth, but on pace

 Segment 5 - Whistler to Pemberton. Mostly downhill but a few ascents, including one the steepest 1K of the course
18.9 miles, 52:16, NP 177, VI 1.29  Hi VI due to a couple good climbs in the middle of a 20 mile downhill 

Segment 6 - Pemberton flats out
15.4 miles, 45:25, NP 180, VI 1.04    Too low

 Segment 7 - Pemberton flats return
15 miles, 43:19, NP 177, VI 1.05   too low

 Segment 8 - Pemberton to Whistler. Mostly climbing but a few short descents
21.31 miles, 1:30, NP 193, VI 1.08   too low

In an attempt to figure out what happened on the run, I carried two 750 cal bottles of Infinit, 3 gels and a 440 calorie payday. I had all the gels, 2/3 of the payday. I had my alarm beeping every 12 minutes to drink. I didn't finish the first bottle until about mile 80 ish. Only finished 2/3 of the second bottle, so about 1800 calories on the bike, Garmin shows I burned twice that. Took a new water bottle at most every station but never finished one.

HR seems ok on the bike, but on the flats mile 60-90 (laps 6 and 7), i found myself getting very cranky and angry at the drafters (there were a lot), probably a sign that I needed more calories but didn't put 2 and 2 together

 Prior to the race, I sipped sports drink and water, but not to excess. I had to pee twice on the swim, long ones. Had to pee in T1 but forgot when I left. 

Peed about 20 miles in on the bike, and knew it was going to be an ongoing thing, and didn't want to have wet socks for 6 hours on the bike leading to blisters on the run, so stopped at the aid station near the end of lap 3, ditched the sock and peed. Had to pee again at the start of lap 6 and the end of lap 7. Peed at the end coming out of T2. Never had to pee that much on a training ride. They were all long and clear.

Final numbers on the bike:  185 lbs/84 kg, 6:04 (moving time of 6:00 plus pee stops), AP 168, NP 188, TSS 247, IF .62, VI 1.13.

 Write all this to try to figure out what happened on the run, as I got very dehydrated. I went from highly hydrated (I guess?) to fairly dehydrated.

Run plan was 9:30s for three miles, 9:20s through 10, 9:10-15 through 20 and then a 10K. 

Run felt pretty good through 7, then around 8 the pace starts to fall way off. Was running mid to high nines, a couple miles too fast but not by much.  I was surprised at the number of hills on the run. Not steep, but relentless. IM site said 400 feet of elevation on the run, in reality it was 1500+.  It was not hot, mid 70s

 THe walks started somewhere after 8. Held it somehwat together until around 12 and was doing more running than walking. then the pace really fell off. My quads were killing me with every step when I ran, and my right IT that had tightened on the bike hurt with every right step. 

I couldn't really tell what was gong on other than a pretty bad bonk. I didn't have a plan B for the walk, so just walked and/or ran when I felt like it. Just had no energy

 I had not peed since T2, and when I did around mile 15, it was very dark. I had been drinking water at every station, and perform at every other one, with a gel every 30-45 minutes. But somehow I got dehydrated. When I get dehydrated my BP falls and I can get dizzy and lightheaded, so slowed to a slow walk, got two cups of water at every station, and walked until I refilled them at the next one. Couple times I had to stop and lean against a pole as I was afraid I might pass out. I couldn't believe I could be at mile 15 and be worried about not finishing, so slowed waaay down. This was about 4 miles from 18 to 22

 When the broth came out I started that.

 Eventually got to the point where I had to pee at every aid station and it got clear, and was feeling better. I started a run/ walk again at mile 22, but again it was disorganized. At mile 24 or so I started running more and ran 25 to the end.

 Had to pee about 10 minutes after stopping.

 Also, looking at my HR on the laps, stayed low, and then got really low. COuld not get the HR to come up, when I got in the 12-13 mile pace, the HR went way low.

So....  I cannot blame the run meltdown on teh bike, because that was clearly underperformed, IF of .62 is way low.  I suppose the NP is probably close to the goal NP, but off by about 10 watts. 

I was trained sufficiently in the S/B/R, and suspect nutrition led to poor execution choices?  Garmin said I burned 3600 on the bike, probably a little hihg, but only took in about 1800-1900.  Performance fell way off the last 2.5 hours.  I couldn't get the power up on the flats, or really the climb, although my effort level felt higher.

Then there is hydration.  I peed like a racehorse for the swim and bike, then very little on the run start.  Then was dehydrated.  Anyone know the physiology of how that happens?  Is excessive urination a sign of hyponatremia?  Saturation?  I don't get it.  Did not drink water to excess leading into race, I thought. 

Any other thoughts welcome.  There was no reason I could not have run a solid 10 m/m pace, and I felt really good the first 8.  When it went bad, it went bad fast (and then my mind followed, which is never a good thing).