Fred D Mentor Group Part III (Page 73)

Tried a bit of a run this morning.   Felt good through 2 miles, just keeping it really easy.   mile 2-3 left calf started tightening up a bit, by mile 3 -3.5 it was clear I should stop or risk further injury.   Very tight in the lower calf, I guess it's the achilles?  Would think that it would loosen up during a run, but it didn't

I've been having some tendinitis in the top of that foot, and wondered if I might be trying to curl the toes to avoid that pain, activating the achilles,and causing it to tighten up.  These things all seem to be inter-related.  So I will continue to roll, stick and massage, and wait another couple days.  Walking around doesn't cause any pain, going up stairs I feel it.

Was going to do a trail turkey trot but don't think that's such a hot idea even if I can run in a week....

On the good news front, scale this a.m. said 199.  I am only 5# from a "normal" BMI.  I know it's not a great personal metric, but I would like to hit it nevertheless. 

Jason with those types of wild temperature swings you probably want to make sure you wear lots and lots of layers so you can adjust as the day progresses. Going from 82 to 84 would be ok with me, it is when it it goes from 84 at the beginning of a ride down to 82 that I would find extremely unpleasant, especially in light of the fact that you don't have any good scenery to take your mind off of just how miserable you are. I really don't see how you are able to motivate yourself to get out on train in that god forsaken place you call home.

Chris, have had a chance to have it checked out by a doc to get a "real" diagnosis? The fact that it gets worse as your run progresses is what would make me worried that it might be a muscle tear instead of tendinosis... and if that were the case you would treat it in the exact opposite way - treating a tear like tendinosis (rolling, massage, stretching) will make it worse. Not offering a diagnosis, just an example of course. Just saying you should get a doc to lay eyes/hands on it if you are able.

FWIW my wife is dealing with a calf tear right now and her doc was able to keep her moving (swimming & cycling, no running) in a way that has her healing up great. She tore hers roughhousing with a bunch of 8 year olds - go figure.

Nice work on the weight management - I know it is just an arbitrary number to some degree, but sub 200 has gotta look great when you see it on the scale?

Yeah, I am pretty sure it is not a tear as I have had this issue several times before, and always get the same treatment for it.  I do need to get in to see the PT though

The weight thing is especially cool when you use one of those medical scales, using the big 180# slider instead of the 200#er 

Thank you for that...snerk.

So - question for you all...I have found that swimming is better on MWF than TTh (fewer people in the lap lanes) during my daughter's swim team practice. I had set up my training skeleton for the winter with the thought of swimming on TTh and now think I need to adjust...how does the following look to you all (please note: bike is following Jorge's Winter Cycling plan, run is BarryP's 3:2:1 with the short runs at 3 miles, medium runs at 6 miles (including one to two days speed/hill work) and long run between 9-12 (depending on the day/other responsibilities, etc))

Sunday - long bike followed by a short run

Monday - swim

Tuesday - bike (on the trainer), medium run

Wednesday - swim, short run

Thursday - bike (on the trainer), medium run

Friday - swim, short run

Saturday - bike (on the trainer), long run

I would be very careful of combining Jorge's plan - which has lots of very difficult interval work - with the BP running plan, which has quite a lot of volume

I found I had issues - mainly injury, running the morning after a Jorge interval session.   Did i mention they were hard?  Hardest things I've ever done on a bike.

Hey Chris,

Maybe misery loves company

I am battling achilles/calve problems. My calve seized up during a long run Sunday. I don't think it's a tear but there is some badness going on down there. But there is more to it than the calve problem. The whole leg is completely tight. When I don't have sore ankles, it's calves, shin...it's all interconnected. One big tight mess. Heat seems to be helping me a little. Another thing I am questioning is magnesium deficiency. I remember I used to wait up in the middle of the night, leg completely cramped up. A buddy suggested Calcium/Magnesium supplements and sure enough it helped. This was before I got into exercise so the problem was not strain related. So I started taking the tablets again. Can't hurt.

I started having Achilles problems in June 2011 and they are on and off, currently on. You will not see any yellow bars in my training log this week :-(

Stretching daily, heel drops helped. But I am crappy and doing them when I am healthy and then when I injure myself, it's too late

As far as BarryP and Jorge's plan, I think they actually go well together as long as you time the short runs properly as recovery from the really hard sessions. I found Jorge had one killer workout per week and as long as I had an easy run the next day I was fine. BarryP does not have to be high volume. It's high frequency. You control the volume.

I still remember the 6x4'@105% with 45 sec rest, and using the last one as the target wattage for next week. Brutal.

Another problem is people are also doing Jorge's plan with an overestimated FTP.

I agree with Chris.  If you want to maximize the results of Jorge's plan (they produce very good results) you need to back off your running.  You can still run 6x per week, but you likely need to back off the intensity, and maybe some volume.  Also, the one day that jumps out is Saturday.  A long run and a trainer session (Jorge's workout) on the same day sounds like death.

That being said, your plan looks very similar to what I would do if in your position.  Here's what I would do.  Running would be barryP (3, 4.5, 8)

Sunday - Long run

Monday - Short run, Swim

Tuesday - Medium run, Interval Bike

Wednesday - Short run, Swim

Thursday - Medium run, Interval Bike

Friday - Short run, Swim

Saturday - Long bike

My partner works as a Biologist for the National Park System.  She has actually interned at volcano national park in the past and has contacts there.  She keeps talking about trying to get a job at a park back east and I keep telling her she's looking in the wrong direction and we should be going to the big island instead...  You have just given me cause to continue that argument  

Do you guys do 'harder' runs as the medium, ie tempo or steady state ? If so, same day as the bike is tough.

If I remember, one of the interval sessions is tougher than the other ?

I find that on Jorge's winter plan the "long bike" is not physically that hard. It's mentally hard because it's on a trainer, but it's only about 2hr at 80% ish ?

Hey Marc - that really stinks - yellow bars are good. I hope the time off from running is all you need.

Since you mentioned it, I was just wondering what (if any) supplements folks in the group take and why? I take two at the advice of my primary care doc: 3000mg of fish oil daily for "improved reactivity of the vascular system" (his words) and 1500mg of Glucosamine Sulfate daily to (potentially) protect against Osteoarthritis (degenerative joint disease). I have taken the fish oil for a long time; the GS was added back in May when I suffered a pinched medial meniscus in my right knee.

The injury is all part of being young and stupid. Ok, one out of two ain`t bad

I didn't take any supplements but will get back on it.

The docs could comment on this one, but my personal doc said that 50% of his patients are vitamin D defficient. Probably doesn't help for tri, but if you are in the habit of taking some pills daily it may be worth it.

I cannot tell you about Glucosamine for humans, but I will guarantee it works on dogs. My 8 year old Malamute is a puppy since we started giving him Glucosamine. Friends had the same experience with their dogs. Vet told us it doesn`t universally help but some dogs react really well to it.

While on your pro training try to get to Mallorca, Spain. It`s where all the pros hang out in the winter.

The harder runs for BarryP for me are the medium runs - one day would be fartleks, the other day tempo.

Yes, it seems (after a brief examination) that one of the Jorge interval sessions per week is harder than the rest. Agree that the long bike is not too difficult physically. I also am thinking that having the medium runs on the same day as the bike interval session may be more than I can handle - which is why I was tacking the short run onto the bike interval day.

On a swim note, I have been trying to get through the 1x600, 2x300, 3x200, 6x100, 12x50 in the time I have during my daughter's swim team practice...but I haven't made it yet - that's my goal for this winter. I actually like the workout - enough of a challenge to keep me entertained, long enough intervals to let me focus on form, and painful enough to wear me out. Any others you all can suggest? I'm not as fast as you all - so instead of 6x100 on 1:30 - could you suggest an appropriate rest interval between sets? Thanks!

Agree on the Vit D (especially for those of us with pretty limited hours of sunshine in the winter). I also take Fish Oil and a B supplement.

I pretty much run all easyish pace.  If I did want to incorporate tempo or steady state runs I would move it to a swim day.  But you are right that running on the same day as an interval bike session is tough, but I guess my bike fitness is able to carry me through those days...and I really like my swim days to be a mini recovery day for my legs.

For the long bike...I just do my own ride (usually a group ride) and wouldn't follow Jorge's "prescribed" long ride...but it usually ends up being 72-78% of FTP (normalized) for about 2.5-3 hours.

Yes, I was running the mediums harder (and/or hilliier).   I currently try not to have any important bike workout on the same day as an important run workout.  I will run after a bike on a short brick but easy.

If you can't make the current set, you could do a 400, 2 x 300, 3 x 200, 4 x 100 set.  2K quick yards, gets harder as you go because you use the same interval.  If you have time left over, you can start going up again......

This has become my favorite workout.  I think most of it is mental for me, but the way the set breaks down, and the fact that you are increasing pace just fits me.  What I found though is that you have to go really easy on the 600 and 2x300 if you want to make it to the end.  My 1000y TT pace is about 1:35, and I usually do the 600 around 1:41 pace, the 2x300 at 1:38 pace, the 3x200 at 1:35 pace, 6x100 at 1:31 pace, and 12x50's start at around 41 seconds, but finish somewhere around 43-44 seconds.

I think Jorges Bike Plan and Barry P can go together well IF you already have a big base of training.  I did it last year but kept all of my runs at a pretty easy pace and just concentrated on frequency with the run.

However if you go into the old winter cycling threads you will find that most folks cannot even handle the bike intensity for more than a few weeks before they fall off the wagon.  Many people completely underestimate that type of program can take on the body.  I do not think folks should be adding intensity to the bike and run at the same time...pick one.  In this case Barry P works well through frequency so they tend to work well IMO.

In other news...my Garmin 310 came today so been playing with that.  It will be nice to finally be able to upload workouts to garmin connect and strava much easier.

Picked up my bike today.  I'll need to swap the saddle - blue and red clash badly, and I'll move to white cable housing and bar tape at some point, but I'm happy with how it looks.

So happy in fact that I forgot to put the front wheel in the car after putting in the rest of the bike.  I then proceeded to back up and run over it....

I broke the skewer, but by some miracle the actual rim was only a bit out of true and they trued it straight away in the shop.  There are also some scratches on the brake track from where pavement met aluminum.  Felt like an idiot walking back into the shop and explaining what I'd just done.

Here it is before my stupidity.

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