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2013-02-04 10:23 AM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Fred D - 2013-02-04 2:16 AM Question for the group?? What angle do you have your saddle at on your tri bike? Ie; how much downward does it typically point or is it perfectly horizontal?

I'm definitely the wacky outlier. As to another question of yours, I do have an ISM on my roadie and I love it, but it just does not work for my tri set-up (I have a Koobie on there, which looks a lot like a skinny split ISM or Cobb).

David Greenfield put me on an EIGHT DEGREES downward tilt, which seems bizarre until I actually ride with it. It seems my pubic tubercles really jut out, so any higher than that and instead of having much of the weight on the sitz bones and the nose being an easy cradle for the rest, my pubic bones just bang on the nose (this is what happened when my saddle came loose during IMWA and I couldn't screw/tie it down tight enough). 



2013-02-04 10:36 AM
in reply to: #4606694

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Keaulani - 2013-02-04 5:37 AM Awesome trail run Goosedog! 19 degrees at the start, wow, sounds like the run might have taken you through a part of Sufferlandia. Congrats to all those that particpated in the Tour of Sufferlandia. You rock! Just updating my logs for the week now. Got some good training in, feel like I am seeing progress. I am curious to hear what the swimmers in our group think of the following. I had been swimming TI style for a while but like many others have been feeling like I sort was outgrowing it- just not progressing anymore. It had taken me to a certain point which was great and I learned a lot great things about reducing drag ect. I just got Sheila Taormina's book on my Kindle and went to the pool today to practice. Just as she said, 15 seconds immediately off my average 100Y time by skipping all the gliding business and focusing on the catch. I am going to work on the tubing exercises over the next few weeks, and keep going with her pool drills. Unfortunately, the people I know who practice the TI style don't want to hear from me right now. I'm a little mystified because when I watch YouTube videos of the great swimmers, they all seem to look a bit different in certain aspects (Sheila says that the high elbow catch is the common denominator). But TI wants everyone to do the same thing all the time and I guess I don't quite get that part. Oh well, we will see what the next few weeks of training brings.

Full disclosure, I'm biased because Sheila is one of my coaches. I have swim-coached several folks coming out of TI and particularly now am swim-coaching a guy who's come out of TI but wants to KQ (and has a very good shot at it if he can get his swimming up to snuff).

IMO, TI can be great for building a solid freestyle stroke up from scratch. And there are actually some folks who can get really fast continuing with TI principles (amusingly enough, my other coach would be one of those people--he credits his 400 free and 400 IM masters world records at the time to TI), but they do seem to be the exception. Most people I have worked with, or know who have started with TI plateau out.

Also, much of the TI information is simply good sense for folks who are beginner or adult-onset swimmers. That said, much of Sheila's is, too, but I think it more widely applies across swim abilities and is particularly good for intermediate-advanced folks.

2013-02-04 10:39 AM
in reply to: #4607098

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
ChrisM - 2013-02-04 1:32 PM

10K pr in the bag     Both primary goal sub 50 and secondary goal of sub 8 average met, 7:54 per mile average.  After the race, ran/walk back along the course to meet my wife who was walking the 10K and walked back with her.  Overall about a 9.1 mile day

Later got in a 3K swim workout which was much harder than I thought it was gonna be.  

Very happy with the run, though, 3:20 improvement over prior PR at this course last year (and 20# ago.)

SHAZAM!!! Hot man, hot speed, hot calves!

2013-02-04 10:44 AM
in reply to: #4543084

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Expert
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Norton Shores, MI
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Chris:  Congrats on the 10K PR - well done!

Kim & Nicole:  Nice job finishing that Tour..that is hard work!

I had some bike testing this weekend and did pretty good - it seemed to hurt just a little bit more this time .  The 5MP actually stayed the same from 6 weeks ago.  Took a 10 minute EZ spin and some light stretching and then the 20MP test.  I was targeting 320 for the test.  Hoping to start at 315 and slowly build but just couldnt.  I was at 313 for the first 10 and then did start to build toward 320.  Finished at 316W for the 20' which is 4W higher than 6 weeks ago.

I was initially bummed until I realized that I had lost quite a bit of weight with food poisoning and not having much of an appetite following.  So, my W/Kg was very much in line with what I was hoping for so happy about that.

May be doing a 5K race on Friday night if things work out.  Hopefully the snow is melted on the course so I can get a good gauge of run fitness.

2013-02-04 10:47 AM
in reply to: #4607617

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Norton Shores, MI
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
TriAya - 2013-02-04 11:36 AM

Keaulani - 2013-02-04 5:37 AM Awesome trail run Goosedog! 19 degrees at the start, wow, sounds like the run might have taken you through a part of Sufferlandia. Congrats to all those that particpated in the Tour of Sufferlandia. You rock! Just updating my logs for the week now. Got some good training in, feel like I am seeing progress. I am curious to hear what the swimmers in our group think of the following. I had been swimming TI style for a while but like many others have been feeling like I sort was outgrowing it- just not progressing anymore. It had taken me to a certain point which was great and I learned a lot great things about reducing drag ect. I just got Sheila Taormina's book on my Kindle and went to the pool today to practice. Just as she said, 15 seconds immediately off my average 100Y time by skipping all the gliding business and focusing on the catch. I am going to work on the tubing exercises over the next few weeks, and keep going with her pool drills. Unfortunately, the people I know who practice the TI style don't want to hear from me right now. I'm a little mystified because when I watch YouTube videos of the great swimmers, they all seem to look a bit different in certain aspects (Sheila says that the high elbow catch is the common denominator). But TI wants everyone to do the same thing all the time and I guess I don't quite get that part. Oh well, we will see what the next few weeks of training brings.

Full disclosure, I'm biased because Sheila is one of my coaches. I have swim-coached several folks coming out of TI and particularly now am swim-coaching a guy who's come out of TI but wants to KQ (and has a very good shot at it if he can get his swimming up to snuff).

IMO, TI can be great for building a solid freestyle stroke up from scratch. And there are actually some folks who can get really fast continuing with TI principles (amusingly enough, my other coach would be one of those people--he credits his 400 free and 400 IM masters world records at the time to TI), but they do seem to be the exception. Most people I have worked with, or know who have started with TI plateau out.

Also, much of the TI information is simply good sense for folks who are beginner or adult-onset swimmers. That said, much of Sheila's is, too, but I think it more widely applies across swim abilities and is particularly good for intermediate-advanced folks.

Agree.  I think TI is a fantastic way to learn balance and a smooth stroke as a beginner.  It is exactly how I learned.  But, I think there are better ways to get faster once you have transitioned from that beginner stage.

2013-02-04 10:47 AM
in reply to: #4543084

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Anybody ride/race cross?  Watching the Worlds over the weekend has me all geeked up about it. 

 



2013-02-04 10:52 AM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Welp ... I couldn't dodge the bullet forever. Sick with mild fever, deep barky productive cough, sore throat, chest pain, headache--I had a friend visiting from abroad and he brought some kind of contagion (I threw him out--very nicely--but he could have spread it to me before he was even symptomatic).

I was pretty disheartened and angry about it--mostly at myself--what was I thinking, letting someone traveling and being around lots of crowds touristing visit? On the other hand, unless I hermetically seal myself into my home, this may have happened anyway.

I've put in some incredibly solid training and the truth is that I could just do some basic maintenance working out between now and New Zealand and be just fine, perhaps even better for letting the training consolidate. And having just put in four really big training weeks (ave. hours in the high teens), a few days completely off isn't going to kill me either and may very well be good.

Also, I'm always plagued with saddle sores during high-load cycling (I had two that never quite healed up from WA) and most thankfully they are gone

2013-02-04 11:49 AM
in reply to: #4607327

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

congrats to the racers. ..

Dressing florida style means  in winter means--wear everything u have even if it doesn't match !

 

Our 80 degrees days make it seem like  my race is right around the corner (its  not till July

 

Ego took beating ridin g  seven mile laps with my 17 yr  old son.   yesterday.  I ran some while I was waiting for him to finish his last lap.

will look up  Sheila Taormina's  philosophy.  thanks !

 

-Linda

2013-02-04 11:55 AM
in reply to: #4607802

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
dustytrails - 2013-02-05 1:49 AM

congrats to the racers. ..

Dressing florida style means  in winter means--wear everything u have even if it doesn't match !

 

Our 80 degrees days make it seem like  my race is right around the corner (its  not till July

 

Ego took beating ridin g  seven mile laps with my 17 yr  old son.   yesterday.  I ran some while I was waiting for him to finish his last lap.

will look up  Sheila Taormina's  philosophy.  thanks !

 

-Linda

Have a gander about her website, www.sheilat.com

The real gem is her book, Swim Speed Secrets. The way she describes aspects of swimming and the photographs seem to make things "click" for a lot of people.

2013-02-04 12:12 PM
in reply to: #4607653

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Goosedog - 2013-02-04 10:47 AM

Anybody ride/race cross?  Watching the Worlds over the weekend has me all geeked up about it. 

 

I don't really ride it, but was at Nationals a few weeks ago, in Madison. Crazy how they can just go in those conditions. Even more so with all the prep & maintenance for the bikes! New bike every few laps. They could still get a couple inches of build-up on them. Sprayed them off with a WD40 mixture as water would likely freeze in the lines.

2013-02-04 12:20 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Welp, my first snowshoe race is in the books:

http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=476942&posts=1#M4607866

That was more difficult than I anticipated!



2013-02-04 12:22 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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5,000 miles from home
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Chris Congrats on the 10k PR!

Arend feel better soon.

Agreed about Sheila's book being a gem, its informative, easy to read and succinct. I will check out her website too.
2013-02-04 12:22 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

It kinda felt weird not getting up to do a Sufferfest ride this morning! 

Tonight will be my first night back in the pool since surgery....incision seems to have healed up pretty nicely and there's only a bit of residual pain (on non-impact activities).  Here's to hoping they're gentle with me

2013-02-04 12:26 PM
in reply to: #4607887

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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Asalzwed - 2013-02-04 2:20 PM

Welp, my first snowshoe race is in the books:

http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=476942&posts=1#M4607866

That was more difficult than I anticipated!

Cool race!  I've been on snowshoes once in my life and I would imagine it would be hard to run with them!!  Was it on packed or loose snow?

2013-02-04 12:26 PM
in reply to: #4607900

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Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
axteraa - 2013-02-04 12:26 PM
Asalzwed - 2013-02-04 2:20 PM

Welp, my first snowshoe race is in the books:

http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=476942&posts=1#M4607866

That was more difficult than I anticipated!

Cool race!  I've been on snowshoes once in my life and I would imagine it would be hard to run with them!!  Was it on packed or loose snow?

It had been groomed a few days before so it was packed-ish. A few inches of new on top.

2013-02-04 12:27 PM
in reply to: #4607893

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Keaulani - 2013-02-04 2:22 PM Chris Congrats on the 10k PR! Arend feel better soon. Agreed about Sheila's book being a gem, its informative, easy to read and succinct. I will check out her website too.

Other than feeling like a caged animal due to the snowstorm that is going on, I feel great!  I pass along your well wishes to Yanti.  Laughing



2013-02-04 12:29 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Thanks all on the congrats.  I never thought I'd be able to run like that.  I actually for the first time beat all the friends that I used to come in far behind

Question for the fishies and others.... what is the point of swimming with a band?   I have read establishing body position, but...   Yesterday's set had some 25s with a band.  Didn't have one, so just crossed my legs and was good about not kicking     Yes, my legs dropped.  I tried lifting my hips and it helped some, but I was still basically just pulling myself through the water with a big keel dragging me down behind me. 

What's the best way to get use out of band drills?   Am I supposed to be able to esablish proper body position without kicking, and if so, how?

2013-02-04 12:47 PM
in reply to: #4607901

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Don't feel bad Arend...that bug ran thru our swim team and the high school team and coach as well about a month ago  :  (

I ran a fever for three days and I never get sick.

2013-02-04 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
axteraa - 2013-02-05 2:27 AM

Keaulani - 2013-02-04 2:22 PM Chris Congrats on the 10k PR! Arend feel better soon. Agreed about Sheila's book being a gem, its informative, easy to read and succinct. I will check out her website too.

Other than feeling like a caged animal due to the snowstorm that is going on, I feel great!  I pass along your well wishes to Yanti.  Laughing

Schpanks!

HEY EVERYBODY SALTY PULLED A 1-2-3 (out of about 600) IN HER SNOWSHOE RACE

it was her 2nd time in snowshoes and she wasn't even wearing running ones!

1st AG, 2nd Women's, 3rd OA

2013-02-04 12:59 PM
in reply to: #4607905

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
ChrisM - 2013-02-04 2:29 PM

Thanks all on the congrats.  I never thought I'd be able to run like that.  I actually for the first time beat all the friends that I used to come in far behind

Question for the fishies and others.... what is the point of swimming with a band?   I have read establishing body position, but...   Yesterday's set had some 25s with a band.  Didn't have one, so just crossed my legs and was good about not kicking     Yes, my legs dropped.  I tried lifting my hips and it helped some, but I was still basically just pulling myself through the water with a big keel dragging me down behind me. 

What's the best way to get use out of band drills?   Am I supposed to be able to esablish proper body position without kicking, and if so, how?

It took a lot of experimenting on my part before I could swim with a band and not just drag the big keel behind me.  I'm not sure I can describe how exactly I do it but it's a little more than just lifting my hips.  There is a fair bit of core muscle action required.

The coach of the swim team I have been swimming with uses the band fairly often but it is almost always with a pull buoy and often with paddles as well.  Even with the PB, your legs will drag quite a bit but I've gotten to the point where I can swim *almost* as fast using PB + band as just PB.  Does it help when it comes to straight swimming?  Not sure, but it was interesting experimenting with body position to try to get it to work.

2013-02-04 1:04 PM
in reply to: #4607947

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Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
TriAya - 2013-02-04 12:54 PM
axteraa - 2013-02-05 2:27 AM

Keaulani - 2013-02-04 2:22 PM Chris Congrats on the 10k PR! Arend feel better soon. Agreed about Sheila's book being a gem, its informative, easy to read and succinct. I will check out her website too.

Other than feeling like a caged animal due to the snowstorm that is going on, I feel great!  I pass along your well wishes to Yanti.  Laughing

Schpanks!

HEY EVERYBODY SALTY PULLED A 1-2-3 (out of about 600) IN HER SNOWSHOE RACE

it was her 2nd time in snowshoes and she wasn't even wearing running ones!

1st AG, 2nd Women's, 3rd OA

Smile Thanks 



2013-02-04 1:15 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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Central Kansas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Well, after three weeks of "productive coughing," as Yanti put it, and hitting it aggressively with Mucinex this weekend, without much change, I called the doc after classes this morning. Belch.

Congrats to our racers. Fantastic job, Goose, Chris, and Adrienne. I am in awe of you Sufferlandians. Just amazing work.

I hope the ill ones among us recover soon. (I am looking at you, Yanti.)

2013-02-04 1:31 PM
in reply to: #4607982

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
KansasMom - 2013-02-05 3:15 AM

Well, after three weeks of "productive coughing," as Yanti put it, and hitting it aggressively with Mucinex this weekend, without much change, I called the doc after classes this morning. Belch.

Congrats to our racers. Fantastic job, Goose, Chris, and Adrienne. I am in awe of you Sufferlandians. Just amazing work.

I hope the ill ones among us recover soon. (I am looking at you, Yanti.)

Warm healing {MELON PRESS} I will add you to my prayers. This really sucks!!!

Hey, at least I didn't mention rainbow phlegm. Oh whoops

2013-02-04 1:40 PM
in reply to: #4608017

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Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
TriAya - 2013-02-04 1:31 PM
KansasMom - 2013-02-05 3:15 AM

Well, after three weeks of "productive coughing," as Yanti put it, and hitting it aggressively with Mucinex this weekend, without much change, I called the doc after classes this morning. Belch.

Congrats to our racers. Fantastic job, Goose, Chris, and Adrienne. I am in awe of you Sufferlandians. Just amazing work.

I hope the ill ones among us recover soon. (I am looking at you, Yanti.)

Warm healing {MELON PRESS} I will add you to my prayers. This really sucks!!!

Hey, at least I didn't mention rainbow phlegm. Oh whoops

Feel better soon ladies! Take it easy!

2013-02-04 1:48 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Been out of the loop the past week or so getting over a cold.  I was able to do a little training over the weekend.  Each day is getting better, but this week will still be on the easier side.

Chris...congrats on the 10k PR.

Brian...I've seen that picture before.  I actually think about it everytime I hit a red light and assume the proper "runners" position with hands on hips.

Fred...I have ridden with my saddle pointed a few degrees downward in the past when I was first getting accustomed to the position.  But since then have leveled it out.  I use an ISM saddle and like it because the rear of the saddle is a couple of mm higher than the nose.  So you can mount the saddle level by the seat rails...your nose is also level, but there is still a slight downward slope from the back of the saddle to the front middle of the saddle.  Helps to relieve pressure, but you also don't slide off the nose either.

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