SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 75)

I just saw this (assuming it's today's swim) as I was loading some stuff onto Strava (including my shortest run - maybe ever - but that's a happy story for another time) and my eyes bugged out!  How did you manage that one?  That's one of the busiest shipping lanes in the country!

Very cool, however you managed it.  

Matt

Big Shoulders 2.5k open water swim: 37:50 (1:31/100m)

Got some things to tighten up, but generally fairly good. Race Report when I get a minute.

I can only refer to this year's HIM for illustration.  For that one, I looked at my planned Oly training and decided that it wouldn't be a large delta to adapt to HIM training.  Given that, I laid out what felt like a program to be able to race "fairly hard."  This meant, to me, to be able to hold an effort that was proportionally backed down from what I knew I could hold in my Oly's.

As for "success," given the above training approach, I targeted given levels of effort (a breathing cadence on the swim, HR and kinda power on the bike and HR and kinda pace on the run) that I thought I could hold based on my training.  Then I said that any time that resulted would be fine with me, as long as I was able to empty the tank the WAY that I wanted to during the race.

That was how I defined a "really great race" for this particular race.

I had some other goals in mind (first was to finish strong, without walking; second was to go sub-6 which I thought likely given my training if I achieved goal number one - not walking;  third was to go as far under 6 as that plan would take me - but this one was more so I could get a feel for where a race-level effort would place me in the overall and age groups for eye-balling future plans).  HOWEVER, I did not plan my race to hit any of these time goals - I didn't even look at my total time until 10 miles into the run...  I wanted to execute my plan and more was hoping that plan would result in a time between 5 & 6 hours, is the way I approached it.

So, for an IM, I would approach as follows.  Set up the most aggressive training plan I could realistically follow (might peak at 16 or so hours weekly, which feels a bit low but is what I think I could CRAM into my life), use the data generated during that training to set an IM race plan that would be a "max achievable effort given training levels" and then race that plan (while having plans B & C, if I get into deep yoghurt for whatever reason, as seems not uncommon).  Whatever time results would be fine - as long as I raced the WAY I knew I should be able to based on training.

Now, success in a local sprint or Oly is, for me, measured veeeeerrrry differently!  

Hope that all makes sense…  After a few years of doing 70.3's and IM's, I might be able to target times or AG placements (as I do with sprints and Olys, where the results are much more stable/predictable for me - even if the AG competition that shows up is not), but that wouldn't be my "great race" definition for the first/first few.

Matt

Oh, and in case you forgot:

IMMT is about to sell out.....

http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/events/americas/ironman/mont-tremblant.aspx#axzz2eF2ekTUj

Question for the group (I want to lean on your collective experience).

This was my first full season of tri with serious (well, serious for me, at least) training and targeting of specific races.  It was going to be sprints and Oly's only, but I added and pretty much finished the tri season (thanks to going into marathon training a wee too soon after a HIM) with said HIM in August.  A couple sprints in the fall - maybe and only if the leg feels good..

So, now all this talk about IMMT has gotten in my head.  I originally planned to make next year a HIM focus - maybe two A races, one early and one late, with a bunch of sprints and Oly's thrown in (I love racing and can't bring myself not to toe the line), even if I just "train through" them (iow, I can handle poor results in a B or C race, as long as I get to race and peak for my A's).

So, is targeting an IM at the end of next season rushing things a bit (in general - I know, all the usual "it depends" apply… depends on commitment to training, time available, spousal support, etc - assume those are no worse than for anyone else who tackles the distance), or would that be well within the "normal" bounds?

Is it a much better idea to finish a season of 70.3's to really build deep base and THEN tackle a full (which was my 2 year plan this time last year)?  I should also say that if I target a race as an A race (as this IM would be), I would like to be able to race it, not just "bucket list" finish the distance.  Not saying MY race is KQ, mind you!  Just that I would like to be able to do more than survive, whatever that time would be (more about being able to target a race rather than survival strategy and accept whatever time comes, if that makes sense).

Or, is this just a stoopid newb question?  (with the answer being either "of course you should" or "of course you shouldn't" or "of course it depends and there is NO way to even give general guidance, so try it or don't and see what happens")

I'm not YET certain I want to do the full, but the HIM didn't seem like so long a race, if that makes any sense...

Blunt answers appreciated (as are nuanced ones, but don't feel the need for kid gloves).

Matt

Huh, Ben - I logged on to give you kudos, but I'll be darned if Arend didn't trump you..... 

Seriously - looks like all the time in the pool is really paying off - nice work!

Fun swim, eh Arend?  Looks like you had no issues hitting the AP entrance.   Was this just an organized waterworld swim?

ETA for Matt, there are several races each year that are swim only, and also a number of organized "club" type swims, i believe always escorted.  Timing depends on tides etc

Hehe. What strikes me as funny is that his strava account reported in yards and I reported in meters. 

Yeah, one of the times I did it, my wife and I took the ferry over later and she was mightily impressed!

Did you get to see any of the America's Cup? 

I have a few more questions:

1. What method did you use for your power goals for this race? Hour test? Prior race? Other?
2. Was your weight at the mandatory weigh-in prior to the race on target with what you thought it should be or was it higher?
3. Stress/sleep prior to the race for the 2 weeks before?
4. Feeling bad before the bike ends could be nutritional, or dehydration but the latter is unlikely as you peed early on on the ride. By the run though it seems like you definitely were. So something happened during that time frame. 300 calories on the bike seems good enough (I actually shoot lower, but not hugely different). Did you swallow a lot of lake water?
5. Did you practice any 'BIG DAYS' beforehand? By this I mean the ones we've discussed before in the ironman threads where people swim for 3,000 yes, then ride for 80 miles and then run 10 miles etc (all in one session)?

I have the gut feeling that something is just not right with the bike power numbers. You averaged 2 W/Kg on the bike (low) and yet had a very decent time (6 hrs) considering the nature of the terrain on the course. 2 w/Kg should not get you in huge trouble especially since I know you are an accomplished IM swimmer who has been to the rodeo before and didn't over swim. With your listed FTP of 300, this was a very conservative power number on the bike IME. Whether the PM was working properly has definitely crossed my mind!

What was your HR and RPE during the ride? I personally do NOT put as much weight into NP as some, but even your NP of 216 for the hardest segment is NOT too hard IME as that was only an IF of 0.72 for 39'. I have raced an entire IM and ran well (for my pathetic training) last year with the EXACT same NP (217) for the entire race. My FTP was 300 as well (I do weigh less than you though)

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=457189

So even the segment you went 'too hard' on you didn't really IMO.

I agree with Marc that your run goal was very optimistic for your mileage coming into this and prior HIM run this year, but the falling apart I believe happened earlier in the bike IMHO. I will post more if you can get back to a few on my questions.

I'm also happy to talk on the phone if you PM me I will give you my cell.

Fred

Lots of hoopla about it but no actual boats.  At least not that I could tell - there were hundreds of boats out in the bay but they didn't seem to be racing anyone.  

STOP, Full STOP!!

Your performance was not a failure. It wasn't what you wanted or expected, but it was the BEST FOR THAT GIVEN DAY that your body would allow. I highly doubt you didn't try, rather something derailed your effort. You need to stop beating up your performance Chris.

2 Years ago (IMWI is starting in a few minutes) I had a 'terrible' day despite the best IM training I have ever had. It wasn't because I trained poorly or 'didn't try hard enough' I just had a bad day.... A really bad day! In time I've become proud of that performance. I realize that on that given day that was the best I had to offer.

No one in this group sees your performance as so take it for what it is worth, which isn't much" Rather those of us who have done IM understand this happens despite our best preparation and efforts.

Sorry, but tough love.

Matt, you've seen my IM performance so take it for what it is worth, which isn't much...  given your first HIM performance I think you have very good potential at IM, but I agree with the comment above, that an IM is SO MUCH MORE than 2X a HIM.   Oly almost relates to a HIM.  HIM in no way (IMO) relates to an IM.

And I agree that IM is not going anywhere.   For me, IM training is a HUGE commitment, and is not taken lightly (of course the results didn't reflect those efforts - but again I am four vodka tonics into a bad nite, so take everything I write with a huge grain of salt)