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Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed (Page 9)
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 2016-01-08 12:43 PM in reply to: SenatorClayDavis |
New user  234   New Hampshire |  Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...ClosedOriginally posted by SenatorClayDavis Originally posted by mtnbikerchk POWER - I bought a power2max this fall. So far no complaints - other than it reads lower than I hoped it would  LOL I hear you on that one. I consider myself a strong cyclist as I usually put up one of the best bike splits in my races, so when I got my power meter and did my first FTP test I figured "l can put out good power on the bike, let's try to hold 250W... yeah that feels comfortably hard, I can hold this wattage..." and as the minutes ticked by "ugh... this is not sustainable" and it wasn't long before I was below 200W and still struggling. I retested again and did the test better but was a little taken aback that my FTP was below 200W. It's remarkable how different pacing with RPE is from pacing with power. A consistent RPE (for me anyways) results in gradually declining power. I've never ridden outdoors with my power meter so I'm very interested to do a TT on one of my usual loops and see how pacing with power effects my time vs the pacing with RPE I'm used to. I'm in the same boat. Purchased a P2Max type S in the late fall. Did a FTP test on TrainerRoad and blew up trying to hold way too high of a wattage, retested and ended up with a FTP of 187W.  The good news is there is lots of room for improvement. I have a theory that because it is a Canadian product us Americans should multiply our FTP's by 1.40 just like the exchange rate to get our US FTP conversion. |
| 2016-01-08 12:54 PM in reply to: marcag |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!" Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by bcagle25 So what are the patterns and what do you do with the data? Do you change the upcoming sessions? How far out in advance? 3 people showing similarities is good, still a very small group, but as long as those patterns continue you'll be able to be more confident in your approach with HRV and applying it as you do. I know it is a big tool with UFC right now. I think the biggest potential of HRV is detecting when a person is getting to the edge of overtraining. You can argue that "a good coach" can figure that out by the load the give, but they are not taking into account the stress from other areas in the person's lives. Travel, family, sickness, sleep, booze.....are all things we have trouble quantifying the impact on top of the training load on the athletes body. In 2013 I traveled 140,000 air miles in one year. The toll this had on my body was incredible. Yet I wanted to train and race and my coach at the time was prescribing a "reasonable" load. But I went over. I wanted to perform, I wasn't going to "whine" about my jet lag, not feeling well, maybe I need "less". . I was your typical "A" type athlete, more is more, less is less. I was hitting all my prescribed workouts. But I went WAY over the line. And BTW, I was coached by someone you would label as a top tier coach. And he is. He couldn't peer into the details of my life and as the athlete I did not have the objectivity to say maybe I'm pushing too hard. We don't know what too hard is. Some elites do because they have been doing this for years. And BTW, some very savvy elites are using HRV on themselves. HRV is like a thermometer that is able to detect fever. It can detect when your body is fighting back too much and something is wrong. It's up to you to figure out what and how to fix it. There was a recent study that showed 3 groups of IM athletes, one continued with normal load during the last 3 weeks of training before taper. The other two groups went into a 30% increase in load. Of those 2 groups that increased,, one went into a state of overtraining, the other managed to stay right at the edge but not go over. That group did significantly better than the other 2. All groups went through a full taper, so the overtrained group did still have time to recover. There are times you want to go to the edge without going over. How do you measure "going over" ? I can also see that with a few rounds you can assess what type of training load will put a person into a state of bad fatigue. I know what kind of TSB drops or CTL ramps or days without rest will do it. As for how does it change workouts, when you see 5-6 days of HRV creeping down, a few measures below a given point time to take a rest day or some easy sessions until it starts coming back. I have heard different people have more or less success with it but usually for very different reasons. If person X does not have success with it, it's usually for reasons other than the "technology" does not work. I know some coaches have trouble getting their athletes to measure consistently. Or they don't have a simple way to assess the data. Or they are afraid one bad data measure and the athlete will slam on the brakes. All valid reasons. Yeah I see where your coming from, but I agree to disagree somewhat. Yes you cannot quantifiably see the data of life stress as accurately, but a smart coach will ask there right questions. IMO I don't think using HRV is needed to measure someones life stress. If you know they have a lot on their plate outside of SBR you can predict that stress, you just need to know what questions to ask, when, and constantly be in communication. However, that is one of my gripes with TSS is that isn't measured and people like to accumulate TSS points because more is more. TSS only tells a small fragment of the picture. For this reason HRV could be a good tool for education to the athlete, let them learn how much external stresses can effect them in performance. Connect the dots and educate. Like I said before we used HRV with a lot of our athletes for awhile. We collected data, found patterns and adjusted training. I/we still believe observing behavior, watching movement and simply asking how do you feel on a scale of 1-10 can provide a lot of value to the trained coach. I start each session by asking how people feel, and watch them through their warmups to see if that number is accurate. If you say you are a 10 and cannot balance on one foot as well as you usually do, your RPE probably needs recalibration. No right or wrong, I am always curious to hear those that use HRV and how they use it, I personally have just not found much reason to apply it. Does it work, sure, is it revolutionary, meh. |
| 2016-01-08 12:55 PM in reply to: marcag |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by TankBoy I switched over to the ST 100 in 100 challenge so I shortened my "long" run and increased my shirt run to 30 minutes, again almost always very, very easy (shhh, don't tell Marc but I am beating him on points). "Working out" stops Monday, and "Training" begins though, so not sure how long that will last - I don't really think the challenge is very conducive to smart training. But over the past 79 days it has gotten me out in the rain, sleet, ice, and 50+mph winds, so there is that. Interesting. Me it's the opposite. My run volume is about to go up and more track work starting next week. I think I'll end up a bit over 30miles this week but will probably peek at 44-45. I think some of the rules this year actually allow to get into a BarryPish style of running. The new 2x 15min rules helps a lot. I saw that rule change - you can do 2x 15 minutes in one day twice per week, or 15 minutes one day and 45 the next and split it correct? I may be able to swing it, but I am going to follow the plan that we chart out and don't really want to alter it to chase some arbitrary streak. "cart-before-the-horse," and all. One of my big problems with going that route though is that I am slavish to a 15-minute warm-up prior to every run that doesn't immediately follow a bike or swim. So adding another 15 minute run in just to get it done wouldn't make sense (for me). But, if it works out I would be less than honest if I didn't admit it would be kinda cool. We will see how it goes! |
| 2016-01-08 1:38 PM in reply to: GoldenSprocket |
Member 2098 Simsbury, Connecticut | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Originally posted by GoldenSprocket Originally posted by SenatorClayDavis Originally posted by mtnbikerchk POWER - I bought a power2max this fall. So far no complaints - other than it reads lower than I hoped it would LOL I hear you on that one. I consider myself a strong cyclist as I usually put up one of the best bike splits in my races, so when I got my power meter and did my first FTP test I figured "l can put out good power on the bike, let's try to hold 250W... yeah that feels comfortably hard, I can hold this wattage..." and as the minutes ticked by "ugh... this is not sustainable" and it wasn't long before I was below 200W and still struggling. I retested again and did the test better but was a little taken aback that my FTP was below 200W. It's remarkable how different pacing with RPE is from pacing with power. A consistent RPE (for me anyways) results in gradually declining power. I've never ridden outdoors with my power meter so I'm very interested to do a TT on one of my usual loops and see how pacing with power effects my time vs the pacing with RPE I'm used to. I'm in the same boat. Purchased a P2Max type S in the late fall. Did a FTP test on TrainerRoad and blew up trying to hold way too high of a wattage, retested and ended up with a FTP of 187W. The good news is there is lots of room for improvement. I have a theory that because it is a Canadian product us Americans should multiply our FTP's by 1.40 just like the exchange rate to get our US FTP conversion. I do the total opposite of both of you LOL I usually sandbag my first one (not intentionally) - it's kind of a "let's see how this feels and can I do it" and next time I blow it out! but yeah, seeing the numbers is totally different than training with RPE. I can't wait to take it outside too but it's gonna be a while! |
| 2016-01-08 2:12 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group..."We're back!" Originally posted by bcagle25 Yeah I see where your coming from, but I agree to disagree somewhat. Yes you cannot quantifiably see the data of life stress as accurately, but a smart coach will ask there right questions. IMO I don't think using HRV is needed to measure someones life stress. If you know they have a lot on their plate outside of SBR you can predict that stress, you just need to know what questions to ask, when, and constantly be in communication. However, that is one of my gripes with TSS is that isn't measured and people like to accumulate TSS points because more is more. TSS only tells a small fragment of the picture. For this reason HRV could be a good tool for education to the athlete, let them learn how much external stresses can effect them in performance. Connect the dots and educate. Like I said before we used HRV with a lot of our athletes for awhile. We collected data, found patterns and adjusted training. I/we still believe observing behavior, watching movement and simply asking how do you feel on a scale of 1-10 can provide a lot of value to the trained coach. I start each session by asking how people feel, and watch them through their warmups to see if that number is accurate. If you say you are a 10 and cannot balance on one foot as well as you usually do, your RPE probably needs recalibration. No right or wrong, I am always curious to hear those that use HRV and how they use it, I personally have just not found much reason to apply it. Does it work, sure, is it revolutionary, meh. There is no doubt that when face to face you can much better assess when a person is struggling. I asked a girl in my swim lane if she was ok because I could see she was just not there. She didn't know why and we agreed she probably needed some time off. I didn't need an HRV tool and I don't have a clue what is going on in her life. She was making the sets, but barely. And she's the "I gotta do this" type. But a) an athlete/coach is not always face to face b) we are terrible judges of ourselves, especially the less experienced A guy like Joel FIliol has a much harder time getting compliance from his athletes than the little data he would get. He sees them every day. He knows them AND they are elites and have far more experience. It makes little sense for him The argument isn't necessarily to work with local guys. I much prefer to work with the more competent guy in Texas than the average local guy. If a power meter, or GPS watch or HRV or stroke counter and video allow to do that, even better. It's just a tool. And it costs a whopping $4.95 Edited by marcag 2016-01-08 2:19 PM |
| 2016-01-08 2:20 PM in reply to: mtnbikerchk |
New user 234 New Hampshire | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed So last year I was registered for a Half Marathon in March, it was cancelled due to the extremely high snow banks and narrow roads we had around here. I deferred my registration to this year and promptly forgot all about it. Well it has come to my attention that this years race is in 8 weeks from Sunday. I still have time to get ready but not a lot of time to spare. This weekend we leave for Aruba to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary. Along with my wife and I our 2 adult children and my daughters boyfriend are coming. I am the only non-drinker ( recovering alcoholic) in the crew which means I'll have time in the mornings to go out for a run while they recover. From what I can find on Google Aruba is one of the safer islands in the Caribbean. Has anyone been? If so is it ok to venture away from the resorts? The only thing I can find is to stay out of the neighborhoods because there tend to be loose dogs. I'm probably just being paranoid but I haven't traveled abroad much other than to Canada. |
| 2016-01-08 3:21 PM in reply to: GoldenSprocket |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Originally posted by GoldenSprocket So last year I was registered for a Half Marathon in March, it was cancelled due to the extremely high snow banks and narrow roads we had around here. I deferred my registration to this year and promptly forgot all about it. Well it has come to my attention that this years race is in 8 weeks from Sunday. I still have time to get ready but not a lot of time to spare. This weekend we leave for Aruba to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary. Along with my wife and I our 2 adult children and my daughters boyfriend are coming. I am the only non-drinker ( recovering alcoholic) in the crew which means I'll have time in the mornings to go out for a run while they recover. From what I can find on Google Aruba is one of the safer islands in the Caribbean. Has anyone been? If so is it ok to venture away from the resorts? The only thing I can find is to stay out of the neighborhoods because there tend to be loose dogs. I'm probably just being paranoid but I haven't traveled abroad much other than to Canada. My favorite way to explore a new place is by running. Early mornings are good because the riffraff is usually still sleeping off the night before. I have also found that most people are supremely uninterested in a guy in a pair of running shorts. Nowhere to carry a wallet so you aren't very attractive as a target. Congratulations on 25 years. That is awesome. Have fun with your family on vacation. |
| 2016-01-08 5:21 PM in reply to: wannabefaster |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Jason-I am the same way. Love to get out early and run to explore a new place. For instance, if I were in Glendale, AZ for the National Championship game I would get out and explore. Wish I could be there....bet you do too. Another short strength circuit and treadmill run this afternoon. I am really lucky to have our City Rec Center less than a mile from the house. Decent weight room, plenty of treadmills and a pool that is never near capacity...typically way more bobbing grannies than lap swimmers. Best thing in recent memory was the morning water aerobics class busting it out doing the "Whip and nae nae". I asked the lifeguard on the way out if he would ever be able to "un-see" that.. WooHoo its the weekend! |
| 2016-01-08 6:56 PM in reply to: slornow |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Originally posted by slornow Jason-I am the same way. Love to get out early and run to explore a new place. For instance, if I were in Glendale, AZ for the National Championship game I would get out and explore. Wish I could be there....bet you do too. I'm really beginning to hate you.......;-) |
| 2016-01-08 7:43 PM in reply to: #5158356 |
Regular 140 Roseville, CA | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed I thought it was basketball season! Go Iowa State |
| 2016-01-08 8:38 PM in reply to: GoldenSprocket |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Originally posted by GoldenSprocket This weekend we leave for Aruba to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary. Along with my wife and I our 2 adult children and my daughters boyfriend are coming. I am the only non-drinker ( recovering alcoholic) in the crew which means I'll have time in the mornings to go out for a run while they recover. From what I can find on Google Aruba is one of the safer islands in the Caribbean. Has anyone been? If so is it ok to venture away from the resorts? The only thing I can find is to stay out of the neighborhoods because there tend to be loose dogs. I'm probably just being paranoid but I haven't traveled abroad much other than to Canada. Watch out for the roosters... especially early in the morning. Though I expect it has changed a bit in 30 years ;-) Congrats and have a great time! |
| 2016-01-08 8:44 PM in reply to: slornow |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Originally posted by slornow Jason-I am the same way. Love to get out early and run to explore a new place. For instance, if I were in Glendale, AZ for the National Championship game I would get out and explore. Wish I could be there....bet you do too. I can't believe I'll have to root for Clemson. That is really hard to do. Maybe in a few years Michigan will be there... to play, once again, Alabama. Must get old, Randy. Have a great weekend, everyone. My wife and I are escaping for a quick overnight to Richmond... classes start in a week and I'll lose her for good until May. Taking tomorrow off and will probably will eat too much... extra motivation for a run on Sunday. Stu |
| 2016-01-09 5:25 AM in reply to: juneapple |
Expert 866 | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Day #7 of a 9 day stretch of 12 hour shifts. Usually the shifts end up being 13 hrs. I managed to get all my scheduled training sessions in by running before work and swimming/biking after. I am tired though. I don't like to miss my coaches scheduled sessions but boy it gets hard when sometimes all I want to do is sleep. Fortunately, once I get going, my fatigue suddenly disappears most times. Well, its time to go back to the hospital again. Not sure what the point of what I'm typing. Looking forward to time off work. |
| 2016-01-09 7:18 AM in reply to: BMiller71 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed 4300m swim, which is hard for me. 300m w/u 5x100m drills (one arm, fist, pause, kick, swim) 4x(5x100m) leaving on 1:40 with 30s extra every 5 1 PB&PA, 1 set Paddles, 1 set PB, 1 set no toys 4x(5x50m) on :50 same deal 1 PB&PA, 1 set Paddles, 1 set PB, 1 set no toys 20x25m on :30 1 hard, 1 easy Run this afternoon |
| 2016-01-09 8:02 AM in reply to: marcag |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Started with a new drag toy today, a towel. Have been interested in this for awhile, 2x sets of various 4x25's with adding drag each time; bands, bands/buoy, bands, buoy, towel, bands, buoy towel, paddles. Small doses, but highly effective. |
| 2016-01-09 9:40 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Originally posted by bcagle25 Started with a new drag toy today, a towel. Have been interested in this for awhile, 2x sets of various 4x25's with adding drag each time; bands, bands/buoy, bands, buoy, towel, bands, buoy towel, paddles. Small doses, but highly effective. . YUCK! Swimming sucks enough without making it harder. With that said I have incorporated band work back into my swims this past week and plan to continue. Got outside first thing this morning to try to get my run in before the rain came. Well, that worked for the first 5 miles and then the rain started...not a big deal given the mild temps. Probably get on the bike this afternoon to spin out my legs a bit. Now it is time to help the wife pack up all the Xmas decorations and lug them up to the attic. I do not enjoy this but like it just a tad better than getting all the crap out in December...mainly because I know I'll have to pack it up again a month later. |
| 2016-01-09 9:51 AM in reply to: slornow |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Randy - you can't REALLY be from Alabama? You KNOW we keep our Christmas decorations up until July at least! Good job on getting out before the rain started, even if only by 5 minutes. I don't know what it is, but I have an incredibly tough time walking out the door for a run if it is raining, but if the rain comes after I have started it is not a big deal. Funny how the mind works. |
| 2016-01-09 1:35 PM in reply to: marcag |
| 360 Ottawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Originally posted by marcag For the outdoor TT, in Ottawa OBC does a 15km TT every Thursday night. It's like $80 for the year and you get 10% off a Busthtakah (LBS). In my case usually easily pays for the membership. They do it on the Aviation Parkway near Rockliffe airport. Great way to test FTP and aerodynamics in a race context. Yeah I thought about doing the OBC TT stuff last year. I actually live about a half hour out of the city, so between driving in and setting up, packing up and heading back, that's a solid hour and a half I could be riding out here and there's plenty of roads that work for TTing. Being able to ride right from my house is the original reason I switched from mountain bike to road biking. But the race context thing is something I can't quite duplicate, though I am pretty competitive against myself. |
| 2016-01-09 5:04 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by marcagShe and her bike made it safe and sound. Apparently she ended up in the wine section of the local store. We haven't heard from her since. Just kidding. WOW! The IM tracker has gotten a lot better than it used to be! Don't worry, I am sure she is fine. Probably just a glitch with the timing mat at the checkout counter.... I made it out of the store okay....only two bottles of wine purchased and a few glasses over the three days I've been here. Going to have a glass of wine here in about one minute, and then try to get some sleep. I'm very excited about the race and this location! I'm feeling good and ready to have a well-executed race (time is not a factor into whether this is a "good" or "bad" race). Bib 1554 if anyone wants to track me (I'll be thinking about people tracking me when I want to walk on the run!) -- and for anyone on Facebook, I've been posting pics of my adventure, so feel free to add me [Nicole Jurisch]
Will post more about the aqua jogging. Marc posted the plan I was following. I was aqua jogging for well over nine weeks, so I was repeating weeks 7 and 8 quite often. Once you get over the initial "this is stupid and totally sucks" sensation, AJ really isn't that bad. Intervals help make it go by relatively quickly, and it's a great opportunity to listen to podcasts or books on tape. I was fortunate enough to be able to do it in my backyard, so I just brought my computer out and set it near the edge of the pool. |
| 2016-01-09 7:11 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
Regular 140 Roseville, CA | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Have a great race!!!!! I got in my swim. Anyone use waterproof headphones? I really need something to help me get through swim workouts. Also put in a 60 minute run today outside. It was good to get off the treadmill! |
| 2016-01-09 8:48 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
New user 234 New Hampshire | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Good luck Nicole! Keep the rubber side down. |
| 2016-01-09 10:09 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Good Luck Nicole! |
| 2016-01-09 11:01 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Originally posted by TankBoy X2!Good Luck Nicole! |
| 2016-01-10 4:49 AM in reply to: slornow |
Expert 866 | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Good luck Nicole!!! |
| 2016-01-10 4:49 AM in reply to: slornow |
Expert 866 | Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's mentor group...Closed Good luck Nicole!!! |
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