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2010-01-14 12:43 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
Thanks Guys! 

George I think he is but not100%.   Robert?  Linda? 

Suzy I know we've talked about it before but I can't stand TP.  I love it when you contact support and they give you some answer that's totally irrelevant. 


2010-01-14 1:10 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
fattyfatfat - 2010-01-14 1:43 PM Thanks Guys! 

George I think he is but not100%.   Robert?  Linda? 

Suzy I know we've talked about it before but I can't stand TP.  I love it when you contact support and they give you some answer that's totally irrelevant. 


Yeah if they had the power data in BT and the ability for a coach to put workouts in, not sure you could beat that.
2010-01-14 1:29 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
fattyfatfat - 2010-01-14 1:43 PM
 I love it when you contact support and they give you some answer that's totally irrelevant. 


You talking about MS, HP, Verizon, VZW, Comcast, AT&T...?
2010-01-14 1:50 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
I can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier...the highlight of my week.

Last night both my 10 year old son and 8 year old daughter came to me and wanted to work out.  They've been asking me about why I do it and apparently they've been listening.  They want to be sure they stay healthy and be sure they can perform their absolute best in their sports.

Anyhow, I had already done my strength training so I brought the 3 and 5 lb dumbbells and the 8 lb medicine ball in to the living room.

They both did the simple stuff...push ups, sit ups, curls, tri-cep extensions, military press, weightless squats.
Then Tiller and I did some several throwing exercises with the medicine ball.
I was hoping to run with them today, but I have to be gone all evening.

Anyhow, I'm a proud parent today.

Anyone, have some good workout tips for this age range?

Edited by BigReub 2010-01-14 1:51 PM
2010-01-14 2:06 PM
in reply to: #2613893

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
dalessit - 2010-01-14 9:06 AM Happy birthday John.

Suzy saw your post about Training Peaks.

Are you still having it? I think I uploaded something from my garmin last night and it went through.


Oh, wait, anybody able to help me?  I tried to upload my run from this morning and am getting an error message.
2010-01-14 2:20 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
BigReub - 2010-01-14 2:50 PM I can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier...the highlight of my week.

Last night both my 10 year old son and 8 year old daughter came to me and wanted to work out.  They've been asking me about why I do it and apparently they've been listening.  They want to be sure they stay healthy and be sure they can perform their absolute best in their sports.

Anyhow, I had already done my strength training so I brought the 3 and 5 lb dumbbells and the 8 lb medicine ball in to the living room.

They both did the simple stuff...push ups, sit ups, curls, tri-cep extensions, military press, weightless squats.
Then Tiller and I did some several throwing exercises with the medicine ball.
I was hoping to run with them today, but I have to be gone all evening.

Anyhow, I'm a proud parent today.

Anyone, have some good workout tips for this age range?


I cannot wait until my kids (currently 5, 4, and 2) are old enough to do this.  They already ask me every night when they go to bed whether I am going for a run that night (I think they actually want to sneak out of bed and they know their mother is more of a softie than I am).  And they often try to pick up the lightest dumbbells off the rack and report that they are "doing their exercises".  But those exercises last no more than 10 seconds, and I am just happy that they understand that doing their exercises is an important thing for them to do as often as possible. 

I am really looking forward to the date when they can actually exercise with me. 


2010-01-14 2:27 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
gdale - 2010-01-14 11:10 AM
fattyfatfat - 2010-01-14 11:59 AM there was some talk a while back about high elbow through the pull.  i came across this and thought some might be interested.  two videos and side by side comparison. 



It help to see side by side...thanks!


Question for the swimmers...when the author talks about a deeper pull, does that literally mean just deeper in the water?


Yes, he probably means deeper in the water.  What is the author discussing when he mentiones a deeper pull?

Robert
2010-01-14 2:34 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
Tobey91 - 2010-01-14 2:20 PM
BigReub - 2010-01-14 2:50 PM I can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier...the highlight of my week.

Last night both my 10 year old son and 8 year old daughter came to me and wanted to work out.  They've been asking me about why I do it and apparently they've been listening.  They want to be sure they stay healthy and be sure they can perform their absolute best in their sports.

Anyhow, I had already done my strength training so I brought the 3 and 5 lb dumbbells and the 8 lb medicine ball in to the living room.

They both did the simple stuff...push ups, sit ups, curls, tri-cep extensions, military press, weightless squats.
Then Tiller and I did some several throwing exercises with the medicine ball.
I was hoping to run with them today, but I have to be gone all evening.

Anyhow, I'm a proud parent today.

Anyone, have some good workout tips for this age range?


I cannot wait until my kids (currently 5, 4, and 2) are old enough to do this.  They already ask me every night when they go to bed whether I am going for a run that night (I think they actually want to sneak out of bed and they know their mother is more of a softie than I am).  And they often try to pick up the lightest dumbbells off the rack and report that they are "doing their exercises".  But those exercises last no more than 10 seconds, and I am just happy that they understand that doing their exercises is an important thing for them to do as often as possible. 

I am really looking forward to the date when they can actually exercise with me. 


right there with you william!  very cool reub!

2010-01-14 2:35 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
getting a little rain today.   ;-)


Edited by fattyfatfat 2010-01-14 2:39 PM
2010-01-14 2:36 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
TriFrog93 - 2010-01-14 3:27 PM
gdale - 2010-01-14 11:10 AM
fattyfatfat - 2010-01-14 11:59 AM there was some talk a while back about high elbow through the pull.  i came across this and thought some might be interested.  two videos and side by side comparison. 



It help to see side by side...thanks!


Question for the swimmers...when the author talks about a deeper pull, does that literally mean just deeper in the water?


Yes, he probably means deeper in the water.  What is the author discussing when he mentiones a deeper pull?

Robert


He indicates that a deeper pull reduces the potential to drop your elbow during the stoke.
2010-01-14 2:37 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
TriFrog93 - 2010-01-14 3:27 PM
gdale - 2010-01-14 11:10 AM
fattyfatfat - 2010-01-14 11:59 AM there was some talk a while back about high elbow through the pull.  i came across this and thought some might be interested.  two videos and side by side comparison. 



It help to see side by side...thanks!


Question for the swimmers...when the author talks about a deeper pull, does that literally mean just deeper in the water?


Yes, he probably means deeper in the water.  What is the author discussing when he mentiones a deeper pull?

Robert



Here are the relevant paragraphs of the article:

The swimmer at the top of the picture has a ‘high elbow’ (or early vertical forearm as some call it).  If you look at the superimposed line I put over the arm you can see that the forearm and the hand are acting as one and leading the sweeping motion of the pull. Looking and the swimmer at the bottom of the picture, you can see that the elbow is dropped slightly and is leading the hand and forearm through the water. This doesn’t allow the hand and forearm to ‘grab’ the water, or get an effective pull.

So how do you prevent this from happening? First of all a deeper pull tends to help things. People who pull with their elbows bent at a high degree tend to be more prone to letting that elbow slip. Second, there are a few drills that you can do to work on it. Catch up freestyle (letting one arm do a complete swim stroke and “catch up” to the other arm before the other arm begins its stroke) will isolate each arm allowing you to make some focused adjustments.  Using hand paddles can help as well. The paddles (be sure they’re sized right and not too small) will exaggerate your stroke and make it easier to find and adjust the problems. The bottom line though is that you need to pay attention to your stroke. If you have someone like a coach or training partner that can watch your swim, get their imput as well.



Not being a swimmer by background, I cannot answer Suzy's question, but I would also like to know.  Thanks.


2010-01-14 2:39 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
BigReub - 2010-01-14 2:50 PM


Anyone, have some good workout tips for this age range?

7- to 9-Year-Olds: Building Complex Movements
The use of basic motor skills in this age group has already developed, and is put to use to build complex movements. For example, instead of just hitting a stationary ball with a bat, kids can now practice hitting the ball while it is moving in the air. This age group can play longer and harder, which means their fitness level can improve. Organized group or team play is encouraged, but not on a competitive level. Activities appropriate for this age group include: bike riding, roller skating, dancing, swimming, karate, hopscotch, basketball and gymnastics. Lessig says basketball really helps develop eye-hand-foot coordination, agility, muscular strength and cardio-respiratory endurance. Lessig also says hopscotch is a great cardio-respiratory activity that is non-competitive and fun to do.

10- to 12-Year-Olds: Age Where Fitness Can Go Either Way
Parents be forewarned, this is the age group where often a decline in physical activity begins, according to Dr. Kenneth Cooper, author of "Kid Fitness" and founder of aerobics. If your child has not been so physically active up until now, it's time to really encourage it, Lessig says. If children do not incorporate exercise into their life now, chances are they will continue to be sedentary into adulthood. Team sports and group classes are recommended for this group. Strength training, dancing, step classes, basketball, soccer, baseball, wrestling, gymnastics, yoga, biking are all good choices.

Here are a few links that I saw:

http://www.fitnessandmind.com/

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw22.htm

http://www.crossfitkids.com/index.php/Workouts/archives/

2010-01-14 2:47 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
gdale - 2010-01-14 2:36 PM
TriFrog93 - 2010-01-14 3:27 PM
gdale - 2010-01-14 11:10 AM
fattyfatfat - 2010-01-14 11:59 AM there was some talk a while back about high elbow through the pull.  i came across this and thought some might be interested.  two videos and side by side comparison. 



It help to see side by side...thanks!


Question for the swimmers...when the author talks about a deeper pull, does that literally mean just deeper in the water?



Yes, he probably means deeper in the water.  What is the author discussing when he mentiones a deeper pull?

Robert


He indicates that a deeper pull reduces the potential to drop your elbow during the stoke.


That's what I thought he might be talking about.  It is hard to tell in the link that John provided but, usually the hand of a swimmer who is leading with their elbow is shallower than someone with high elbows.


Robert

Edited by TriFrog93 2010-01-14 3:05 PM
2010-01-14 3:03 PM
in reply to: #2614382

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED


Here are the relevant paragraphs of the article:

The swimmer at the top of the picture has a ‘high elbow’ (or early vertical forearm as some call it).  If you look at the superimposed line I put over the arm you can see that the forearm and the hand are acting as one and leading the sweeping motion of the pull. Looking and the swimmer at the bottom of the picture, you can see that the elbow is dropped slightly and is leading the hand and forearm through the water. This doesn’t allow the hand and forearm to ‘grab’ the water, or get an effective pull.

So how do you prevent this from happening? First of all a deeper pull tends to help things. People who pull with their elbows bent at a high degree tend to be more prone to letting that elbow slip. Second, there are a few drills that you can do to work on it. Catch up freestyle (letting one arm do a complete swim stroke and “catch up” to the other arm before the other arm begins its stroke) will isolate each arm allowing you to make some focused adjustments.  Using hand paddles can help as well. The paddles (be sure they’re sized right and not too small) will exaggerate your stroke and make it easier to find and adjust the problems. The bottom line though is that you need to pay attention to your stroke. If you have someone like a coach or training partner that can watch your swim, get their imput as well.



Not being a swimmer by background, I cannot answer Suzy's question, but I would also like to know.  Thanks.


I think the highligthed section above is a great thing to think about while swimming...using the forearm and the hand together.

Robert
2010-01-14 3:21 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
Tobey91 - 2010-01-14 1:20 PM
BigReub - 2010-01-14 2:50 PM I can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier...the highlight of my week.

Last night both my 10 year old son and 8 year old daughter came to me and wanted to work out.  They've been asking me about why I do it and apparently they've been listening.  They want to be sure they stay healthy and be sure they can perform their absolute best in their sports.

Anyhow, I had already done my strength training so I brought the 3 and 5 lb dumbbells and the 8 lb medicine ball in to the living room.

They both did the simple stuff...push ups, sit ups, curls, tri-cep extensions, military press, weightless squats.
Then Tiller and I did some several throwing exercises with the medicine ball.
I was hoping to run with them today, but I have to be gone all evening.

Anyhow, I'm a proud parent today.

Anyone, have some good workout tips for this age range?


I cannot wait until my kids (currently 5, 4, and 2) are old enough to do this.  They already ask me every night when they go to bed whether I am going for a run that night (I think they actually want to sneak out of bed and they know their mother is more of a softie than I am).  And they often try to pick up the lightest dumbbells off the rack and report that they are "doing their exercises".  But those exercises last no more than 10 seconds, and I am just happy that they understand that doing their exercises is an important thing for them to do as often as possible. 

I am really looking forward to the date when they can actually exercise with me. 


My 4 year is jacked about tri's this year...There is a sprint that I am going to do in May. They have a tyke's race after. Think 'kids of steel' but major downsized and lowkey. Its for 4-7 year olds. 25m pool swim- 1km bike , and .25 km run. Parents literally swim with their kids and help them do it all. Riding on her bike with training wheels and the whole bit. I'm really looking forward to it/
I think I told her about it too early though. She has 4 months until she can do it though.
Her and my two year old run around the house with my swim caps on pretending to swim on the carpet and then run around the island in the kitchen.
2010-01-14 3:26 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
Tobey91 - 2010-01-14 1:20 PM
BigReub - 2010-01-14 2:50 PM I can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier...the highlight of my week.

Last night both my 10 year old son and 8 year old daughter came to me and wanted to work out.  They've been asking me about why I do it and apparently they've been listening.  They want to be sure they stay healthy and be sure they can perform their absolute best in their sports.

Anyhow, I had already done my strength training so I brought the 3 and 5 lb dumbbells and the 8 lb medicine ball in to the living room.

They both did the simple stuff...push ups, sit ups, curls, tri-cep extensions, military press, weightless squats.
Then Tiller and I did some several throwing exercises with the medicine ball.
I was hoping to run with them today, but I have to be gone all evening.

Anyhow, I'm a proud parent today.

Anyone, have some good workout tips for this age range?


I cannot wait until my kids (currently 5, 4, and 2) are old enough to do this.  They already ask me every night when they go to bed whether I am going for a run that night (I think they actually want to sneak out of bed and they know their mother is more of a softie than I am).  And they often try to pick up the lightest dumbbells off the rack and report that they are "doing their exercises".  But those exercises last no more than 10 seconds, and I am just happy that they understand that doing their exercises is an important thing for them to do as often as possible. 

I am really looking forward to the date when they can actually exercise with me. 


Hey William..check your logs...I see you did a 60 hour workout with your trainer today!!!


2010-01-14 3:45 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
TrevorC - 2010-01-14 3:26 PM
Tobey91 - 2010-01-14 1:20 PM
BigReub - 2010-01-14 2:50 PM I can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier...the highlight of my week.

Last night both my 10 year old son and 8 year old daughter came to me and wanted to work out.  They've been asking me about why I do it and apparently they've been listening.  They want to be sure they stay healthy and be sure they can perform their absolute best in their sports.

Anyhow, I had already done my strength training so I brought the 3 and 5 lb dumbbells and the 8 lb medicine ball in to the living room.

They both did the simple stuff...push ups, sit ups, curls, tri-cep extensions, military press, weightless squats.
Then Tiller and I did some several throwing exercises with the medicine ball.
I was hoping to run with them today, but I have to be gone all evening.

Anyhow, I'm a proud parent today.

Anyone, have some good workout tips for this age range?


I cannot wait until my kids (currently 5, 4, and 2) are old enough to do this.  They already ask me every night when they go to bed whether I am going for a run that night (I think they actually want to sneak out of bed and they know their mother is more of a softie than I am).  And they often try to pick up the lightest dumbbells off the rack and report that they are "doing their exercises".  But those exercises last no more than 10 seconds, and I am just happy that they understand that doing their exercises is an important thing for them to do as often as possible. 

I am really looking forward to the date when they can actually exercise with me. 


Hey William..check your logs...I see you did a 60 hour workout with your trainer today!!!


Good job William!  When did you start that workout???  Tuesday?
2010-01-14 3:48 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
TrevorC - 2010-01-14 4:26 PM
Hey William..check your logs...I see you did a 60 hour workout with your trainer today!!!


No wonder I am so tired.  It has been a heck of a day...

-William
2010-01-14 3:48 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
TriFrog93 - 2010-01-14 3:03 PM

Here are the relevant paragraphs of the article:

The swimmer at the top of the picture has a ‘high elbow’ (or early vertical forearm as some call it).  If you look at the superimposed line I put over the arm you can see that the forearm and the hand are acting as one and leading the sweeping motion of the pull. Looking and the swimmer at the bottom of the picture, you can see that the elbow is dropped slightly and is leading the hand and forearm through the water. This doesn’t allow the hand and forearm to ‘grab’ the water, or get an effective pull.

So how do you prevent this from happening? First of all a deeper pull tends to help things. People who pull with their elbows bent at a high degree tend to be more prone to letting that elbow slip. Second, there are a few drills that you can do to work on it. Catch up freestyle (letting one arm do a complete swim stroke and “catch up” to the other arm before the other arm begins its stroke) will isolate each arm allowing you to make some focused adjustments.  Using hand paddles can help as well. The paddles (be sure they’re sized right and not too small) will exaggerate your stroke and make it easier to find and adjust the problems. The bottom line though is that you need to pay attention to your stroke. If you have someone like a coach or training partner that can watch your swim, get their imput as well.



Not being a swimmer by background, I cannot answer Suzy's question, but I would also like to know.  Thanks.


I think the highligthed section above is a great thing to think about while swimming...using the forearm and the hand together.

Robert


Forgive me I am old, what exactly was my question?    I was talkingt to Steve about the whole EVF thing yesterday during my lesson.  Hold your arm out straight in front of you while you read this....try to turn you elbow up while keeping your palm in the same position. Now keep that elbow high as you sweep your arm back and slightly out.  Done correctly, you should feel it in the front of your shouler.   I have a little more progress to make on pull timing, but as soon as I master that, he is going to introduce me to paddles to get that EVF motion down.  He is afraid if he does it now, I won't further perfect my technique and rely to heavily on the aid.

Tony--I still cannot get the Garmin to work using the Device Agent. I downloaded the new 3.0 which I now realize does not support the 305.  How crazy is that?

Suzy


Edited by SSMinnow 2010-01-14 3:49 PM
2010-01-14 3:58 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
SSMinnow - 2010-01-14 1:48 PM
TriFrog93 - 2010-01-14 3:03 PM

Here are the relevant paragraphs of the article:

The swimmer at the top of the picture has a ‘high elbow’ (or early vertical forearm as some call it).  If you look at the superimposed line I put over the arm you can see that the forearm and the hand are acting as one and leading the sweeping motion of the pull. Looking and the swimmer at the bottom of the picture, you can see that the elbow is dropped slightly and is leading the hand and forearm through the water. This doesn’t allow the hand and forearm to ‘grab’ the water, or get an effective pull.

So how do you prevent this from happening? First of all a deeper pull tends to help things. People who pull with their elbows bent at a high degree tend to be more prone to letting that elbow slip. Second, there are a few drills that you can do to work on it. Catch up freestyle (letting one arm do a complete swim stroke and “catch up” to the other arm before the other arm begins its stroke) will isolate each arm allowing you to make some focused adjustments.  Using hand paddles can help as well. The paddles (be sure they’re sized right and not too small) will exaggerate your stroke and make it easier to find and adjust the problems. The bottom line though is that you need to pay attention to your stroke. If you have someone like a coach or training partner that can watch your swim, get their imput as well.



Not being a swimmer by background, I cannot answer Suzy's question, but I would also like to know.  Thanks.


I think the highligthed section above is a great thing to think about while swimming...using the forearm and the hand together.

Robert


Forgive me I am old, what exactly was my question?    I was talkingt to Steve about the whole EVF thing yesterday during my lesson.  Hold your arm out straight in front of you while you read this....try to turn you elbow up while keeping your palm in the same position. Now keep that elbow high as you sweep your arm back and slightly out.  Done correctly, you should feel it in the front of your shouler.   I have a little more progress to make on pull timing, but as soon as I master that, he is going to introduce me to paddles to get that EVF motion down.  He is afraid if he does it now, I won't further perfect my technique and rely to heavily on the aid.

Tony--I still cannot get the Garmin to work using the Device Agent. I downloaded the new 3.0 which I now realize does not support the 305.  How crazy is that?

Suzy


So, 3.0 doesn't support FR305, 2.0 doesn't either.  anyone do the WKO software?  It seems a bit silly since I think there are probably more 305 owners than 310xt's...
2010-01-14 4:02 PM
in reply to: #2555972

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
Kim that is exactly what I told TP.  Sometimes that are just down right stupid.  For now, I am manually logging the workouts.  Was your error message 500 or 501?


2010-01-14 4:13 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
fattyfatfat - 2010-01-14 10:52 AM
SSMinnow - 2010-01-14 10:34 AM HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOHN!  I ate a piece of cake in your honor this morning after RUNNING (well sorta) since the cupcakes never showed up!  Make it a good one.

Any cool gifts on the horizon?


PS DJ, I am tire size stupid...I am pretty sure the tire size you provided wouldn not work, but maybe a bike guru can tell us.  Thanks for checking.


Thanks Suzy!   Gifts... Hopefully a not so sick baby!  I do think she's on the mend so this is good.  I'm hoping to give myself a nice run Sunday so I can come back up here at yap at Sam, Kelly, our resident lurker (yeah Matt I'm talking about you).  I'd love a shot at Kyla but I really doubt that.  The likes of you, George, Kim, etc.. are still a long ways away. 




Huh?? Whuh? My ears are burning... (or is it itching?). Shoot away, Big Old Guy. Oh wait. I'm older. Never mind.
2010-01-14 4:18 PM
in reply to: #2613902

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
gdale - 2010-01-14 12:10 PM
fattyfatfat - 2010-01-14 11:59 AM there was some talk a while back about high elbow through the pull.  i came across this and thought some might be interested.  two videos and side by side comparison. 



It help to see side by side...thanks!


Question for the swimmers...when the author talks about a deeper pull, does that literally mean just deeper in the water?


Yep....get a good catch with a high elbow
2010-01-14 4:27 PM
in reply to: #2613454

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
TrevorC - 2010-01-14 9:50 AM Where's Linda....She need to weigh in on her new coach. I don't know much about american college football but this guy really seems like he was able to help Oakland out when he was there.


You may not know anything about college football, but you sure know what buttons to push

Not too excited about Kiffin, but really bummed now - I thought we were getting Chow back.  
But don't worry, there is still a lot of pride...so we'll see.
2010-01-14 4:36 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED
Havin'Fun - 2010-01-14 5:27 PM
TrevorC - 2010-01-14 9:50 AM Where's Linda....She need to weigh in on her new coach. I don't know much about american college football but this guy really seems like he was able to help Oakland out when he was there.


You may not know anything about college football, but you sure know what buttons to push

Not too excited about Kiffin, but really bummed now - I thought we were getting Chow back.  
But don't worry, there is still a lot of pride...so we'll see.


What I heard on sports-talk radio today is that when they (Kiffin/Chow) were together before they supposedly HATED each other and came to blows a couple of times....don't know how much of that is true but something is up if you choose to stay with Neuhisel (sp?) instead of going back to a school you LOVED to coach for.

just sayn'
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