The Decline of the BT community (Page 11)

I'm surprised you were bothered by the clique comment, because you can't single out TAN on that one. I can dig up references and links, too, if that is necessary. Seems to be popular in this thread. (talk about gnawing on the gristle...)

I am not justifying what you call "mocking" others. That was certainly not the intent of any of my posts. If any of my posts cross the line, I fully expect Ron or other admins to call me on it, which has yet to be done, ever.

Yeah Fred, there seems to be an underlying pathology going on here that may on its surface seem to be beyond the topic of this thread, but may actually be indicative of the problem.  I've not looked in TAN in... years?  and looked at the linked pages.  Yes, it seems to an outsider that the folks in there are (with all apologies) mocking others on a high school level.  Again,. I am not a TAN member so maybe it's all in good fun, but it sure don't feel that way.  And maybe it is caveat emptor. But its bleeding into this thread, sadly.  There are even comments about complaining because one is using an iDevice.

At any rate, hopefully those issues do not derail the intent of this thread, and that people take away from it the ideal that we should do our best to post in a positive and helpful way.

I've been here since 2004.  First trainng log I posted my weight of 245#.  Just raced IM Canada and Miami 70.3 at 185-190.  BT folks have helped to get me through two serious health issues, and I am forever grateful for that.  Ron and Derek reached out and offered me a way to stay involved when I wasn't physically able to race.  I remember when there were follow threads for every IM each season, because it was SUCH a big deal, and the guys and girls doing the IMs were my heroes.  Now BT, tris, and IM have lost some luster as they've become more mainstream.  I think it takes more effort than before to keep this site relevant, given all the other electronic resources for tri and race information.

If nothing else, this thread has made me even more aware of what I say here, and that there really isn't any room for sniping or smarta$$ responses.  If I have constructive information I will offer it, if not I will learn from others.  Which, as John pointed out is kind of ironic in this thread, given the comments re snarkiness and the call to reinstate Bryan (with which I agree).  Anyone here actually remember Bryan's final post?  I do.   (and no, for the record, he did not get banned for one post, having been a mod I know how they work it, it's like drafting, you have several opportunities to fly right, and are given every opportunity to do so, Bryan certainly did not get banned for one post, nor did Daremo)

I only jump into COJ occasionally, and can probably count the number of times I've looked at TAN on one hand, because I'm here mostly for the triathlon conversation too.

I did look at the posts linked above in the back and forth about mocking, cliques, TAN, etc, and I'm definitely not one of the cool kids, because I had no idea what anyone was talking about in the threads linked.

____________

Matt, I appreciate your input. So that's the four people who have contacted me, you (Matt), me...that's six people who have a problem with behavior that routinely goes on in a thread. Mods, how many people need to voice concern about another thread before it is taken down?

I would like to add that I believe there is a certain group of people who think that they are superior to other people because they are more a part of BT than others due to their participation in some parts of the "community." And that they and their friends are somehow the driving force behind the existence of the site, which has been brought up in COJ topics in the past (I do not have the energy to search and quote).

Well since the thread is almost derailed anyway I'll just put it over the edge.......

I present this photo of my adorable niece on her first Halloween!

Having suffered the same thing, I might not be racing right now, and I certainly would not have raced Canada last year without you showing what's possible.  So thank you.

/thread!

First, I appreciated your PM response.

Second, if this is your perspective, I respect that but can't agree or question some of it.

• Sounds like the examples provided are geared around a few individuals, not the bulk of TAN contributors. 
• I would also say that the behavior you take issue with is something that is far from "constant".  99% of TAN is mindless banter.  As a reminder, TAN is moderated as much if not MORE than most threads.  If anything was breaking BT rules, it would be flagged by the mods.  TAN's have been yanked and participants warned in the past (just as often as other threads) but that hasn't happened in year(s).
• I'm not sure how you can quantify that many people left BT because of TAN unless you track people that left and question them and that was their response.  If that's your speculation, fair enough, but I can't imagine it's actual fact.
• I would easily concede there are four other people on BT that dislike the TAN thread or individuals in it.  Probably a lot more than that.  But four out of thousands of BTers is a pretty small sample size.
• I also wish if people had a problem they were more vocal about it.  I welcome a conversation with anyone that has issues with me as long as it's civil and not name calling.  Maybe I was having a bad day, or responding to something and meeting someone on the low road, or maybe I didn't know it was offensive.  Sure would be nice to be able to explain or apologize if it warrants it.  I hardly ever PM anyone as I feel that if what I have to say can't be said in the open, it's not right to say.  But, I will be happy to respond to anyone who chose to write me.
• It's disheartening to feel that all the contributions to BT as a mentor, or giving advice on trips to Vegas, and even getting just about everyone who visits me free show tickets, participation in tons of thread NOT named TAN, cancer survivor support, is all tarnished by participating a thread that's basically "chat" slowed down.
• I'm not sure why this has turned into a war of words.  There are plenty of opinions/people/threads that don't appeal to me or I like.  I just don't participate and let everyone do their own thing.  If it's a matter of standing up to BS, if that's what you feel it is, I get that.  Probably most of the arguments I get into I have no dog in the fight, but I'm only standing up to unfairness or judging or generalizations.
• As for the title?  I understand how that could take it personally since you made the original comment about TAN.  There is not round table to make a title, it just happens.  But if TAN is going to get called names, they could get mad and hurt or offended, or take ownership.  If TAN is full of bad apples, or jerks, or D-bags in peoples eyes and get called names, is it appropriate to retaliate in kind or defend or just laugh it off?  As an example, if some guy called me an A-hole at a bar, I'll just say "fine, I'm an A-hole" and walk away rather than escalate it.

Thanks for your words.  Maybe TAN should take a look at itself (as well as MANY individuals/posters/thread on BT)   It's easy to get complacent and comfortable.  But people that participate in TAN are not NEARLY as awful as depicted.  There is bad behavior, poor examples of communication, and mocking all over this site.  This thread mentions a lot of it.  If I so desired, could find examples of general Douchbaggery from all kinds of people and threads.  But I figure it's the internet and that's just the way people are and let it go.  Honestly?  I wouldn't care ONE BIT if TAN was permanently ended.  The people are still here.  If the thought is to ban people because they are not liked?  Different story.

Honestly, the whole thing seems awfully childish and a waste of energy.  Yeah, people are making fun of people on an internet site - not cool, got it.  Happens in grade-school playgrounds all over the planet.  No one is being violent, making racial, faith, or sexual disparaging remarks.  It's not right, I get that, but it is really worth taking some huge stance and participate in a battle or war of words?  I guess that's up to the individual.  I'm all for anyone that want's to have an anti-TAN crusade, or anti-any thread crusade if that's how they want to spend their energy.

So, after this LONG soliloquy, I'm calling it quits on the matter.  I hope my actions prove my character if my words fail to do so.  Though I will be happy to answer questions, I'm done with the statements.  I got some training/work/family/reading/TV or about a million other things more fun to do.

I know, I want it to end but I keep checking for new posts !!

I can't be sure if you are referring to TAN again, but since the quoted post was, I have to assume that you are.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If that's the impression you get, I apologize for the "thread" or for the people in there (if I'm included in that group or not, again, I'm not sure).  If you got to know even remotely most of the participants, they are probably some of the most "equal right" people I have seen.  Hugely vocal about equal rights for g/l/tg people/marriage and other issues.  I "think" the problem is a stance against "judgmental" people comes across judgmental, therefore, hypocritical.  I would think most people can relate if people "make fun" of people that take strong stances.  I can name dozens that would be the LAST people you would consider acting "superior". 

I'm not saying it's remotely at the same level, but I may mock what TO ME is absolutely unjust behavior of a white supremist group.  Is it cool to mock them?  Probably not.  From the outsider do I look like a jerk.  Maybe.  Is it justified?  Nope.  But does it HAPPEN?  Yes.  I wouldn't dare say that all mocking on this site is in retaliation to something bad.  Much is just being mean.  But honestly, much is probably passive aggressive retaliation to something that was done or said.  I think some of that is forced due to the rules of the forum.  If people WERE allowed to say what they want, a lot of this would be out in the open.  But the environment sets up for a lot of passive aggressive, veiled, snarky, and hidden comments.  HATE that.  I honestly wish people would just say what they want to say instead of eluding.

And honestly, I think it's a few individuals that really just don't like each other.  But no one wants to risk the wrath of the mods, so it's all the sneaky talk KNOWING it's going to push buttons then "throwing up their hands" like it was innocent remarks when everyone can read between the lines.  SO many people do it.

As a disclaimer, I can't throw the first stones due to lack of sin.  I KNOW I have done that.  I don't want to get booted or suspended - but when a debate gets' heated, it happens - emotion comes in, we are human.

It would be so cool if everyone got along and liked me.  I try to be liked, not disliked - I work at that both inline and in life.  And I can take comfort the most people that DO know me, do.  But if someone doesn't because views are different or from random posts on an internet or thread I participate in?  Can't really do much about that.

In my best engineering/logic way...

TAN (Thread About Nothing) was a "catch all" thread started years and years ago.  As you know, threads have specific topics and generally stay on point unless they derail or get hijacked. 

It was thought that instead of starting threads about lunch, or movies, or training or music or whatever comes to mind, to just have a brain dump in one  place.  So the thread is about nothing/everything/anything.  People throw out a topic and if it sticks, it gets talked about.  If not?  No one takes offense and moves on.  I'll just leave if it's not something I'm interested in.  There have been some CRAZY good talks about classical music or playing the movie quote game.  How to you start a thread just about movie quotes?

I understand it seems hard to get involved even though everyone is welcome.  It's kind of like jumping into a group of strangers at a party and just start talking - but it really is ok.  I had to kind of gut it out.  Sort of was a fly on the wall until I got to know people.  It was MY apprehension to participate, rather than a feeling I couldn't.  Obvously got to get a feel for the convo/group.  Most of it's pretty lite and serious matters don't get any legs.

Of course, if people stick it out and get comfortable (no one will EVER say get out or made to not feel welcome) they get close.  I have met many of the people in TAN and to me, they are pretty good people.  I just can't seem to get Yanti to fly back from indonesia to visit!

I'm sure no one will believe me at this point.  But any comments like "the cool kids" and such.  NO ONE takes seriously (in TAN).  Honestly, just making fun of ourselves.  I'm just a tall, lumbering engineer.  Last thing from "cool", so it's fun to make fun of my LACK of coolness by saying I AM cool.

TAN didn't start with numbers.  But somehow (before my time) they wanted to keep track.  I came in at about #20.  It's all about coming up with a creative name (obviously, some in better taste than others).

It's sort of a general meeting place.  "Chat" (I'm not sure if they even have that anymore) would have been an acceptable option, but you had to be a member to go in there I believe.  So the thought is to have a place everyone can talk, membership or not.

Maybe it's gotten a bad rap.  Maybe not. Largely due to bad experiences and just a lack of understanding of it.

Again, no one will believe me, but it's really just a bunch of people just talking.  Most have become friends.  Not some secret society bent of mocking the rest of BT.

Feel free to PM if you got any questions....  But that's about it, from my perspective.

Jim,

I have never hung out in TAN, just never felt the need to go there….but I do appreciate your honest replies to those who have asked you about it and the depth of your details.  

The reality is, that any group that hangs together like you guys do in TAN is going to reconsidered a clique.  I think there were similar feelings a few years ago over those of us who hung out in the challenge forum.  There may be sentiments similar to that about some of the mentor groups that have the same members rejoining from group to group.  

The reality is that we are people and people will hang in groups where they feel comfortable.  Some of us are more out going than others and will post anywhere without any effort---some of us will post primarily in their comfort zone with a few posts in the threads they feel are "safe" for them….

There is no "clique" here--anyone I have ever randomly inspired or sent a PM to has been friendly.  Even the couple of people I have had issues with in the past--we have learned how to get along much better …..

Yes, there are inside jokes in a lot of threads--a lot of BT isms if you will.  i don't think (from what I have seen) that TAN is any more full of inside jokes than any other thread say in the mentor threads…..

Anyway, I appreciate your answers and the fact that you are owning up to parts that may be issues.

I haven't been on BT that much for the better part of a year due to family balance, a new job position, IM and Ultra training, and in the past couple of weeks dealing with the passing of my sister from cancer, and now dealing with a health issue.

I'm sick of the TAN trashing from this side of the website, and I'm sick of the TT trashing on the other side of this website.

You're all adults.  Grow up already.  SHEESH.

BT, in my opinion, is STILL the best Triathlon website out there.  There are more than enough persons providing great support and tips that have been covered countless times, which still can be referenced by a simple Search.

Ron and Marmadaddy are terrific, the mods are doing a pretty good job, and this site still rawks!

If there is a decline, then perhaps some people are moving on with their lives, too?

Please see the MOBILE UPDATES we went live with today.  I hope it takes care of some of the mobile issues in this thread and for those that I followed up with.