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2008-10-26 11:07 PM

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Subject: ironman training plan - please calm me down

I've read loads of triathlon training advice (Training Bible, etc.), and decided to start from a set plan from this site, and adjust it as seems appropriate.  I've run many marathons, but am new to tri.  I'm doing my first ironman (and my first Oly, and my first 1/2IM) next year.

So I stick the ironman plan into my planned training, and start looking at the run mileage, and I'm freaking out!  I've never run a marathon (that I can recall at least) with less than 50mpw training in preparation.  I'll  fall short of that this year (first marathon back after serious knee surgeries and I'm just trying to finish it, not PR or anything close to that), though not by much.  I look at this IM plan, and I see an average run volume during the 2 months before of around 20mpw, with the longest run being 20 miles almost three months before the race, and I start to have serious doubts about being ready to run 26.2 after the swim and bike.

Is this normal?  I'm already seriously panicked about not dieing on the swim.  I don't need to be worrying about the run part (the only portion that I've done dozens of times in the past).  Should I be?  Would it be stupid of me to increase the run mileage i this plan a bit?  (What I note on the plan is that swim and bike distances are proportionally -- relative to race distances -- much higher.  Is it crazy to equalize these a bit? I understand the theory that running causes more injuries, and maybe that's the answer.  Still, I'm nervous.)



2008-10-26 11:11 PM
in reply to: #1767121

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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down

Yes, it's normal.  You don't train for an IM, including the mary, like you would a stand alone mary.  Two different animals.

You'll be fine (although longest run of 20 miles 3 months out seems odd to me, but I wouldn't comment on a training plan as I am not a coach)

BTW, it's easier on the body to race distance train thebike and swim.   Run takes too much recovery

2008-10-26 11:17 PM
in reply to: #1767121

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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down

There are other plans - I followed the 1/2 to full plan and my longest run was 2.5 hours (15 miles for me).  Your plans are rather ambitious, although you've already done what IMHO is the hardest part.  It is a long road, and you can change your plans at any time.  Better to put it off a year than to hurt yourself then have to put it off. and recover from injury

Good luck

2008-10-27 12:29 AM
in reply to: #1767121

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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down
Well if only count miles ran you may be doing less. But don't forget about the HOURS each week you'll spend in the water and on your bike too. Each sport still helps improve the other three as well.
2008-10-27 7:14 AM
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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down

Another thing to remember.  (I don't know which plan you chose)  Many of the plans on this site are designed to "Finish the Race"  not win it.  You may need to adjust the distances based upon your fitness and how your body feels.  If you are looking to go sub 10 vs 13-15 hrs, you may need to run faster based upon the time given for any workout.  A lot of tri programs are about running/biking/swimming the amount of time more so than the distance.  So for instance if you have a 2 hr bike and it says 10 miles.  Ride the hour that may put you at 18 or 22 miles (dependent on speed).  Again I don't know what program you chose, but make proper adjustments as you go along. 

Also if you are a paying member you probably have access to coaching on this site.  Use it and ask your questions and submit your concerns.  I know Mike Ricci does a great job answering questions.

2008-10-27 10:16 AM
in reply to: #1767121

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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down
Well I trained for an completed my first IM this year.

Going into it, my running was sub-par at best. There is no way I could RUN 26.2 miles. Sure I could walk 5 mintues and run 2 minutes up to 15 miles, but that was it.

In the past, I have gotten injured when I try to train to run up to a half mary distance.

So my coach had me focusing on the bike portion and really training hard for that. I would do up to 12-5 mile runs in training. I never went past 15 miles in training for my IM.

Come race day, my achilles tendons started hurting on the bike, which lead to me NOT being able to run AT ALL come time for the marathon. So my plan of a 5/2 walk/run was out the window. I ended up walking the whole marathon.

Race day was 11 miles of unknown distance for me. Now, I won't lie, the last 13 miles of that marathon were hard. VERY HARD. The last 5 were torture. I kept a good attitude, but looking back I was suffering pretty bad. What didn't hurt on my body?!

So you can finish the IM marathon without running as much as your plan calls for. Just get ready to suffer more on race day.

Also, make sure your bike portion is STRONG and that you are prepared for that distance so you can make it through the run.

Good luck!


2008-10-27 10:24 AM
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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down
I'm a slow fat triathlete and have never done an IM and may never do one. But from what I understand from talking to people who have and do do them it's not about training to RACE the marry but to live thru it. It's training your body to handle the arobic state for that many hours.

I just did the Grand Rapid marathon with only 20 miles per week (most weeks less) and a longest run at 15. Yes it was my worst finish time yet but I knew that going into it.

Like others have said, look at the time that you will be spending each week. If you can fit a few extra miles in here or there I don't think it will hurt anything. Just don't go overboard.
2008-10-27 11:16 AM
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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down
I'll be able to tell you on saturday. I too have done many marathons and all but one on 50+ mpw. The one was my first and was awful. I'm concerned about it but also try to remember that this is marathon done a much slower pace than my marathon PR pace. I've also felt really strong on my runs and I think that the bike volume helps the run too. I know the run is my strength (both physically and mentally) and plan to start easy on the bike and then ease off!! The 15 minutes I would gain in biking hard will surely be lost in the run, however, an easy bike could mean a respectable run.

I've been trying to draw from my worst marathon experiences (puking from mile 10 to 18 and walking 18-26 and a horrible 98 degree crazy humidity day that sent me into delerium). As miserable and horrible as those days were I finished. I hope that that knowledge translates to IM.
2008-10-27 11:32 AM
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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down

k_hase - 2008-10-27 12:16 PM I'll be able to tell you on saturday. I too have done many marathons and all but one on 50+ mpw. The one was my first and was awful. I'm concerned about it but also try to remember that this is marathon done a much slower pace than my marathon PR pace. I've also felt really strong on my runs and I think that the bike volume helps the run too. I know the run is my strength (both physically and mentally) and plan to start easy on the bike and then ease off!! The 15 minutes I would gain in biking hard will surely be lost in the run, however, an easy bike could mean a respectable run. I've been trying to draw from my worst marathon experiences (puking from mile 10 to 18 and walking 18-26 and a horrible 98 degree crazy humidity day that sent me into delerium). As miserable and horrible as those days were I finished. I hope that that knowledge translates to IM.

I look forward to your race report  Good luck!  Oh ,and wait to puke at the end -- I think that works better.  Laughing

2008-10-27 11:52 AM
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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down

Reading this makes me wonder about the Training Plans on this site. I ran a Marathon on 30+ mpw... and although I was able to finish the Marathon, I ended up with 2 tibial stress fractures from it.

It worries me that they are recommending running a Marathon on only 20 mpw training... This isn't enough, and CAN lead to injury! On the 20 mile run, is that the only run that week?

Because you've already completed many Marathons, I'm sure that your bones, ligaments, tendons, etc. are used to the High Impact that running entails, but I'd really question the suggested mileage for a runner doing that distance for the first time.

2008-10-27 12:16 PM
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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down
Cardholic - 2008-10-27 12:52 PM

Reading this makes me wonder about the Training Plans on this site. I ran a Marathon on 30+ mpw... and although I was able to finish the Marathon, I ended up with 2 tibial stress fractures from it.

It worries me that they are recommending running a Marathon on only 20 mpw training... This isn't enough, and CAN lead to injury! On the 20 mile run, is that the only run that week?

Because you've already completed many Marathons, I'm sure that your bones, ligaments, tendons, etc. are used to the High Impact that running entails, but I'd really question the suggested mileage for a runner doing that distance for the first time.

A few things:  

* there are weeks in the plan with higher mileage.  20mpw is (roughly) the average during the 8 weeks or so leading up to the race. 

*  as someone else suggested, the run is probably the toughest part of the race. I would not be trying to do an IM next year at all if I hadn't run marathons before.  Even having done the marathons, many people have told me I'm crazy, but whatever.

* Unfortunately, if I am crazy, it is because I am coming back from knee surgeries, and still have issues.   This is part of what concerns me.  I feel like I need more volume over the next many months (gradually built up of course) to strengthen the knee.

* I'm not questioning the plan.  It's awfully hard to make a plan that meets everybody's needs.  I'm really just wondering whether it makes sense, in my situation, to add run mileage, and trying to get some sense of how that will affect everything.  I'm guessing that the right answer is 'try and see', though I think that k_hase's race experience could prove informative.

 



2008-10-27 1:01 PM
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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down
A big part of IM training is training and NOT getting injured. If you have already had knee surgeries, the lowered volume on the running and you focusing on the bike would probably be wise.

But yes, you probably won't have your fastest marathon time ever out there. And the end of the race might a suffer-fest.
2008-10-27 11:55 PM
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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down
I'll let you know on Saturday also...
I ran my first marathon in March - following the beginner version of the Hal Higdeon plan...I thought the Marathon was much harder than the 1/2 ironman I did in May...

I made up my own Ironman plan which basically started about 2 weeks after the marathon, using parts of that training (4 days of running)...and then adding in the biking and swimming...

My running had a high of 16...I think I did 16 3 times, but never went higher...
My high on biking was 101miles, but I did a lot more biking than I did running...
Then again, my plan is to get through it still standing and nothing more...I know its going to hurt - a lot...

My avg. training weeks were ~800minutes/week
2008-10-28 5:18 AM
in reply to: #1767882

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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down

 

*  as someone else suggested, the run is probably the toughest part of the race. I would not be trying to do an IM next year at all if I hadn't run marathons before.  Even having done the marathons, many people have told me I'm crazy, but whatever.*

 I doubt whether very many people who compete in Ironman have actually run a stand alone marathon. I know I for one have not. 

I used the 20 week beginners IM program on this site and found it to be very good.  I think you are reading it wrong though if you believe the longest run is 3 month out.  The longest runs are in week 8, 6 and 5.  (with week 1 being race week).  This means it is 1 month before the race.

 I compared it to many other progammes and found them all to have similar run distances.  In all the things I have read, they all state not to go over about 32km in one session for the run training as it takes your legs too long to recover and then messes up the rest of your training program.  Remember running is only one part of the race.

Far more important is getting the distance on the bike and getting your legs used to running after having cycled 180km.  If you have not trained that sufficiently you will not finish no matter how much run training you have done.

 

2008-10-28 7:35 AM
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Subject: RE: ironman training plan - please calm me down
Cardholic - 2008-10-27 1:52 PM

Reading this makes me wonder about the Training Plans on this site. I ran a Marathon on 30+ mpw... and although I was able to finish the Marathon, I ended up with 2 tibial stress fractures from it.

There is no need to wonder about the plans; they are well written and proven plans that many athletes on this site have used with success to train for an IM.  Although I do not have personal experience with those plans, I have spoken to several athletes who have used them and were quite satisfied.

In general, there will be much less running in an IM training plan than a marathon plan as there are two other sports to train for; and getting enough time in the saddle to be well trained for 112 miles limits the time an athlete can spend running.

However, this does not mean that an athlete is inviting injury; the most common reason for injury in IM training is trying to do too much too soon.  For most athletes, this is going to mean running less than 2.5 hours for a long run and getting the majority of the volume from frequent runs in the 45-60' range.

Shane

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