General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Tips on shifting between chainwheels? Rss Feed  
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2009-06-17 2:50 PM

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Subject: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
I'm having trouble efficiently switching between the large and small chainwheels. I can't seem the to figure out which is the best cog to be in when I switch. I try to do it somewhere in the middle but there is always a noticeable jump in resistance which requires a quick adjustment and loss in momentum. This is when I know I'm going to need to switch. Sometimes I get caught halfway up a hill in the largest cog and large chainwheel and realize I need an even lower gear. This is no fun. Like I said though, even when I plan on switching chainwheels I can't seem to make a smooth transition. Any tips?


2009-06-17 3:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
Not sure if this is what you're asking, but when I make the jump I generally shift two gogs in the back as soon as the chain is seated on the chainring.

Example: When I shift from little to big chain ring I shift up(?) two bigger cogs, and vice versa.
2009-06-17 3:03 PM
in reply to: #2225001

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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
I agree with Bear...

I will move up or down two gears in the back (based on the situation) if I move the chain in the front.  That puts me at about the same amount of resistance before and after.
2009-06-17 3:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
^^^ Ditto, and I always be sure to be in the small chainring before I reach the bottom of the hill I'm approaching.
2009-06-17 3:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
camy - 2009-06-17 3:11 PM ^^^ Ditto, and I always be sure to be in the small chainring before I reach the bottom of the hill I'm approaching.


I was going to say that as well, but i don't ride enough hills to offer an informed opinon.

What i will say is that as long as I'm riding less than, say, 20mph, I'm in the small chainring. No reason to be in the big ring where you could possibly get caught short. This would also include situations where I foresee that I'm going to be at <20mph, which would include most uphills.

Edited by the bear 2009-06-17 3:15 PM
2009-06-17 4:00 PM
in reply to: #2224969

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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?

Same for me.  You'll have to learn to anticipate your shifts to make sure you are in the right chainring.  Use the cogs on the back to finetune the effort.  I almost always shift one to two cogs on the back when I shift chainrings.  I will sometimes do this simultaneously when just cruising on the flats or coming to a light.



2009-06-17 4:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
Alright, so pretty much just be prepared to quickly switch two cogs. I'll work with that.I could probably stay in the small chainwheel most of the time if it weren't for downhills. I have a 50/34 and that 34 becomes pretty useless on most downhills. Heck, there are times when I spin out in the 50 going downhill.There are some pretty big downhills into uphills where I ride, which requires me to shift through pretty much all of my gears sometimes.Which reminds me, I hear about people going 40+ mph down hills. I get to about 32 and I'm spinning out. I'm guessing they're probably riding with 54/39 or something along those lines?
2009-06-17 4:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?

 I will sometimes do this simultaneously when just cruising on the flats or coming to a light.

Oh, I didn't even realize you could change them at the same time...
2009-06-17 4:10 PM
in reply to: #2225206

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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
jonmorin - 2009-06-17 2:07 PM

 I will sometimes do this simultaneously when just cruising on the flats or coming to a light.

Oh, I didn't even realize you could change them at the same time...


yes, and most times without problem.

However, asking too much of your drive train at the same time could possibly result in a thrown chain or awkward shifting.  It's best to do one, then the other, IMO
2009-06-17 4:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
Aikidoman - 2009-06-17 4:10 PM
jonmorin - 2009-06-17 2:07 PM

 I will sometimes do this simultaneously when just cruising on the flats or coming to a light.

Oh, I didn't even realize you could change them at the same time...


yes, and most times without problem.

However, asking too much of your drive train at the same time could possibly result in a thrown chain or awkward shifting.  It's best to do one, then the other, IMO


X2. As I said in my intitial post, as soon as the chain is seated on the new chainring, shift the rear. Near simultaneously.
2009-06-17 4:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?

If you have a double, you will find shifting is always a bit of a "jump".  I suppose that's a benefit - or so I hear.  The biggest thing that helped me was realizing which gears I really need. There is a lot of overlap and some essentially unnecessary gears.  I learned with my set-up that the only gears I really need in my "easy chainring" are the easiest 4.  The rest are virtually duplicated in the big ring.

Sheldon Brown can help show you the gear ratios here: http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

So, long answer to question, I always put myself about in the middle gear before I switch and then shift a few gears in the back to recover.  I think that's instinct.  While it feels drastic, it's where I want to be and also I am less likely to drop a chain.   So, I spin like a crazy person for a second but then shift up a couple of gears and I'm fine.

But yes, you must anticipate this coming to a hill and suffer the spinning for a little bit until you know the course better or can push a bigger gear!

I wouldn't shift front and back simultaneously.  Sounds like a sure recipe for dropping a chain.

Edit:  I add that first bit as an answer to a question which you didn't really ask.  But what I am saying is that you probably don't have to switch chain rings as much as you'd think.



Edited by BikerGrrrl 2009-06-17 4:20 PM


2009-06-17 4:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
Oooh, new opinion.

I do it the opposite way, going uphill. I'll shift the back 2 cogs down the cluster, then go smallring in front, in very quick succession - for most gear ratios, that puts you in a slightly smaller gear, good for the start of climbs. . You can continue to apply power through that at a reasonable cadence. Tap, tap, tap.  I've done it the other way, where you switch to small ring right away, and I just spin, until I get to the right gear, and bounce around.  No comparison.  

On the downhill, I'll go big ring first...then cycle through the gears to find the appropriate one. Again, still applying power, so you're not losing much.

And yes, I too, switch rings at the same time, front and back. A good drivetrain will not let you down, but I work to make sure I'm not exercising that option often.  Never dropped a chain, though, because chain-droppin requires the chain to get outside of it's limits, and gear switchin can't cause that. You can end up in the wrong gear, but unless your derailleurs are limited wrong, the chain won't come off. Worst case...you end up in the wrong gear, for a sec, and with a hitch when it catches. 

Heh. I'm gonna regret that.  
2009-06-17 4:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?


...

What i will say is that as long as I'm riding less than, say, 20mph, I'm in the small chainring. No reason to be in the big ring where you could possibly get caught short. This would also include situations where I foresee that I'm going to be at <20mph, which would include most uphills.


This is the second time in two weeks I've heard the <20mph stay in the small ring. Is there a better or more detailed reason as to why?

I generally go to the big ring, and 1 or 2 cogs away in the back. I'm holding 17-18 and seem pretty comfortable. My cadence is usually somewhere in the 90s. Is this something I need to consider changing? Can you share more?

As to the OP, I generally use the back to fine tune the shifting +/- 2 shifts when moving from big to small. And it's usually pretty smooth.
2009-06-17 4:45 PM
in reply to: #2225271

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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?

You don't HAVE too...  But if you are doing less than 20 mph, you can find a gear in the back that works if you are in the small chain ring for any condition.

If you are in the big ring in the front and hit a hill and drop to less than 10 mph, you will be forced to change the front and the back or you will cross gear and/or get some lovely grinding sounds from your drive train...

Sticking to the small chainring for less than 20mph lets you 'set it and forget it' and you only have to worry about the rear gearing, which, in my opinion shifts faster and easier than the front any day....

2009-06-17 6:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
Thanks for all the great advice guys, jonmorin beat me to the punch about this question. Especially on steep hills, i keep finding myself in TOTALLY the wrong gear, and inevitably grind through gears like crazy, lose momentum, and get stuck at a standstill in the middle of a hill.
2009-06-17 6:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
Thanks Akido. I'll try that tonight.

I just catch myself spinning like crazy in that small ring, small cog and getting no speed out of it. I'll keep working with it to see what's going on.


2009-06-17 9:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
LostSheep - 2009-06-17 5:34 PM


...

What i will say is that as long as I'm riding less than, say, 20mph, I'm in the small chainring. No reason to be in the big ring where you could possibly get caught short. This would also include situations where I foresee that I'm going to be at <20mph, which would include most uphills.


This is the second time in two weeks I've heard the <20mph stay in the small ring. Is there a better or more detailed reason as to why?

I generally go to the big ring, and 1 or 2 cogs away in the back. I'm holding 17-18 and seem pretty comfortable. My cadence is usually somewhere in the 90s. Is this something I need to consider changing? Can you share more?

As to the OP, I generally use the back to fine tune the shifting +/- 2 shifts when moving from big to small. And it's usually pretty smooth.


18 mph with 90 rpms equals ~ 68 gear inches, which in turn is about a 53 and a 21 cog, or about a 39 with a 16 cog.  18 mph with 95 rpms = ~64 GI, ~53/23 or 39/17.  It sure is possible to ride with those gears with the big ring, but I prefer to come from the other side and use the middle range of my 13/25 cassette (53-39 rings). 
2009-06-17 11:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?

Aikidoman - 2009-06-17 2:10 PM
jonmorin - 2009-06-17 2:07 PM

 I will sometimes do this simultaneously when just cruising on the flats or coming to a light.

Oh, I didn't even realize you could change them at the same time...


yes, and most times without problem.

However, asking too much of your drive train at the same time could possibly result in a thrown chain or awkward shifting.  It's best to do one, then the other, IMO

Sometimes I get awkward shifts if it's done with more than a moderate amount of power or I'm not paying attention.  I'm running a triple though so there's not as much slack for the RD to take up when I change the front chainring.    The dog fang helps too!

2009-06-17 11:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?

jonmorin - 2009-06-17 2:05 PM Alright, so pretty much just be prepared to quickly switch two cogs. I'll work with that.I could probably stay in the small chainwheel most of the time if it weren't for downhills. I have a 50/34 and that 34 becomes pretty useless on most downhills. Heck, there are times when I spin out in the 50 going downhill.There are some pretty big downhills into uphills where I ride, which requires me to shift through pretty much all of my gears sometimes.Which reminds me, I hear about people going 40+ mph down hills. I get to about 32 and I'm spinning out. I'm guessing they're probably riding with 54/39 or something along those lines?

At 50MPH I'm not pedalling at all!  I pedal hard until I spin out and then duck down into the drops in the best aero position I can get cranks parallel to the ground, knees into the top tube, hands on the drops, forearms flat and elbows in.  My chin just clears my stem.  I haven't had the nerve to try this descent in the aerobars yet.

2009-06-18 7:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
jonmorin - 2009-06-17 3:05 PM  Which reminds me, I hear about people going 40+ mph down hills. I get to about 32 and I'm spinning out. I'm guessing they're probably riding with 54/39 or something along those lines?
I have a 50/34 with an 11/28 in back. I can keep pressure on the pedals up to 38 mph, but that is a little over 110 rpm, and it took me a while to learn to spin that fast. But I LOVE that 11/28!
2009-06-18 9:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?

lodewey - 2009-06-18 5:11 AM
jonmorin - 2009-06-17 3:05 PM  Which reminds me, I hear about people going 40+ mph down hills. I get to about 32 and I'm spinning out. I'm guessing they're probably riding with 54/39 or something along those lines?
I have a 50/34 with an 11/28 in back. I can keep pressure on the pedals up to 38 mph, but that is a little over 110 rpm, and it took me a while to learn to spin that fast. But I LOVE that 11/28!

With practice and some good genetics you can get that quite a bit higher, I spin out at 120 currently.  Track sprinters can get to over 150.  But on a descent, gravity, aerodynamics and nerve play the biggest part in top speed.



2009-06-18 10:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
I am confused. You mean some people actually use that small ring thingie on the front? I thought it was just there to look cool.
2009-06-18 11:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Tips on shifting between chainwheels?
jonmorin - 2009-06-17 1:50 PM
I'm having trouble efficiently switching between the large and small chainwheels. I can't seem the to figure out which is the best cog to be in when I switch. I try to do it somewhere in the middle but there is always a noticeable jump in resistance which requires a quick adjustment and loss in momentum. This is when I know I'm going to need to switch. Sometimes I get caught halfway up a hill in the largest cog and large chainwheel and realize I need an even lower gear. This is no fun. Like I said though, even when I plan on switching chainwheels I can't seem to make a smooth transition. Any tips?


I ride the big ring unless I'm climbing something significant. If the hill is significant so I think I'll need to shift to the small ring, I do so with 2-3 low gears left on my cassette. I'll NEVER EVER ride the big ring/biggest cassette gear. Depending on the hill, when I feel the need to go down to the 2nd or 3rd lowest on my cassette, I just shift crank rings instead and I'm ready to shift up a cassette gear if the gear is too low(easy).

As soon as I'm back into the middle of my cassette on the small ring and I know the climbing is over for a while, I'll shift back to the big crank ring.
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