Ironman and Speedwork

I read somewhere that 90% of Ironman Marathon times are over 4 hours.  I bet that a lot of those people do speedwork. . and the question is. . .why?  I think for the majoriy of us, building base is the main thing.  If we ever get to the point where we can go sub 10, then maybe speedwork comes into play. 

Now that doesn't mean we have to go "slow" all the time. . long and with purpose. .that is how I train. 

Yes I do, generally Monday's now unless recovery from a race or the week leading up to a race. Very important part of my run program. Generally doing 3-4 X 1 Mile being the main set.

until you're running 60+ miles per week, probably isnt much point in it,.......sure, you may get faster, but you're increaseing the chances of getting hurt.

Intervals?  Yes, but mostly longer ones

Speedwork?  Not much.  (a few strides while running, maybe)

All long and slow?  No.

Will you get faster with heaps & heaps of long and slow?  Yes.

Assuming you can complete interval and tempo work correctly and without getting injured, absolutley, speed work can be an integral part of IM training. Bringing higher intensity work into your program, including VO2 max sessions short intervals, bike and run tempo work, IM race pace efforts, all can provide benefit and it has nothing to do with being a sub 10 IM'er, it applies to everyone.

Really don't agree with this at all. No one training for an IM should ever be running 60+ miles per week for starters.

You'll find folks with open marathons in the low 3's walking the entire run, not because of run fitness or lack of run fitness, but because they completely nuked themselves on the bike. You can predict your run with your bike...that is where the race will be won or lost**. AG IM racing is all about attrition, who can go the longest before slowing down/walking. Those that pace the bike correctly will win.


**Won or Lost - meaning where/if you have to start walking.

I'm training for my second IM with a coach. I'm relatively slow triathlete.

I do some types of speed work...do strides, will do 1-3' faster pace efforts, runs like that. Since I've started doing them in May I have gotten faster plus I think both my ability to pace and my durability has improved.

I'm running most weeks 25-32 miles with my biggest week before IM last week with 40.

Threshold and VO2 max training is often neglected by IM athletes; IMO it is a fundamental aspect of proper preparation for a succesful race specially for those with time limitations. If you increase your Maximum Lactate Steady State you will be fitter and faster, as long as you mix it up and do most of your specific training targeting steady state efforts to develop the endurance part then you'll be in a better position for a solid IM.

Interval training or speed work doesn't necessarely means to go all out; it mean breaking down your training so you can target specific intensities and have a break in between to do it again. You can do short intervals @ VO2 max - threshold, mid duration ones @ threshold or long duration ones @ threahold - tempo ones.

Address this training adaptations on the non-specific phase to increase your power/pace and then just maintain that speed while doing specific IM training.

you probably still dont agree, but I meant peaking out around there.

surely, no one should be runnng 3120 miles per year.

Also, I'm sure pros are peaking out right around there with 30-35 hour weeks.....

i should have made my main point clear....volume before speed work.....

at least, I'd rather have at least 30 miles per week average, than 20 with speed work.....

but maybe i'm wrong, thats happened once, or maybe twice in the past....



Edited by cusetri 2009-07-28 12:14 PM

My IM training plan has speed work build into it every Thursday. The workouts are usually on the track and push the pace. The sets are usually 800 - 3200 in length with drills and strides after the warm up. The whole workout is usually 60-90 minutes. I feel that I've become a stronger runner with the speedwork but I also know that my pacing on the bike will determine how well the run goes.

We spend a lot of time working on form which has made me a more relaxed runner when it comes to the long weekend runs.

I believe in bryancd, I think speedwork and intervals, tempo workouts, etc all have a place in the every(wo)man training program. There is a reason why the responses by people involved in coaching are for it and others are against it.

I think thats also why speedwork is a staple of almost every ironman training program I have seen... it might be helping.

Also for no other reason then to break up the monotony of 'long and slow' I do them.

I never said it doesnt help.

I said a certain volume should be achieved before doing it.

I do intervals and tempo w/os....not so much "speed work"  to me, speed work is another way of saying track session.    of course, I feel my run volume and the distances I am racing supports the addition of intervals/repeats and tempo work.

intervals and tempo work, yes, but again, once a certain volume is hit.  60+ miles a week, ok, a little high....but certainly, people out there doing 15 mpw, IMO, would be better served getting their miles up over a minimum of 30 before doing "speed work" when trainng for an IM.





Edited by cusetri 2009-07-29 1:27 PM

You're right....I still don't agree.

The only time I have ever come close to running 60 miles per week was one peak week prior to the Boston Marathon. Otherwise 30-40 is the most IM run training I do. And it's not about 30 miles base, 20 mile speed! Good Lord, man! No, it about incorporating tempo. interval, and track into the run mileage you already do. Yes, speed work should become more of a priority after a ceratin degree of run fitness is achieved but there is no magic number and speedwork, more loosely defined than you definition of track work only, benefits evryone, sprint to IM.

not that it is your fault but the problem is that certain books/coaches/athletes/websites had spread this belief around and I am uncertain as to why beyond personal preference or lack of understanding.

There is no magic volume number to achieve before one could add more intensity into the total load mix, there are no bigger injury risks unless you do more load of what your body can handle and there are training adaptations to be gain by adding intensity.

BTW, I am currently running 30 mpw and increasing to 40-45 mpw, still before increasing too much too soon I have to do it gradually yet I've been doing intensity training (i.e. track sessions) for the past 8 + weeks. I don't know what the volume has to do with the total load; as long as I do adequate load for my current fitness level and goals I'll keep doing it. Intensity on the bike I've been doing LOTS since January and just the past 8 weeks I've been shooting for more volume to fill up that gap on my load and fitness.

PS. My post is not against your opinion but rather at the statement regarding volume which seeems to be a miconcetion spread around. Just giving the other side of the story for readers to decide...