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Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? (Page 2)
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 2010-06-23 9:31 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Extreme Veteran  590  |  Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk?They are too expensive, IMO. I go to every photo race that I have done to look at the photos, so I suppose I am a potential customer...as I want good memories of the race to look back on. But I agree, they are just not worth the cost. I think if they are able to get the price they are asking, more power to them....just won't get me to buy any. Brian |
| 2010-06-23 9:36 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Extreme Veteran 590 Sioux Falls, SD | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Last fall after a race I received an email that event photos were available for purchase. I went to the site and browsed through all of the available photos. There was one of me coming out of the water that I probably would have paid $90 for them to destroy the original. |
| 2010-06-23 9:42 AM in reply to: #2938344 |
Extreme Veteran 398 Denver | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? nc452010 - 2010-06-23 9:34 AM I disagree with nothing you siad, mmrocker. I'm wondering - in what book is $0 is a better business model than $50. I'm with you, she can let that file with your pic sit un-used on a disc somewhere and gain nothing...or get $50 for clicking a shutter a few times. I've never purchased race photos because I think they they aren't worth the money. however, my wife is a professional photographer who attends all my races so I have 100's of great photos of myself for free. from this I also know that there isn't really any time spent sharpening or cropping or editing the photos...they either look good or they don't. none of these race day photogs are going through thousands of photo's and photoshopping them, it's too time consuming and impractical. this being said, your photographers time investment in you so far is almost zero... my opinion: you aren't being a jerk and, they should lower their prices. |
 2010-06-23 9:45 AM in reply to: #2938400 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2010-06-23 9:47 AM in reply to: #2938318 |
Master 1826 | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? nc452010 - 2010-06-23 9:27 AM With all due respect....a sprint IS the be all and end all of some people's lives (at that time). And, there's not a thing wrong with that. That sprint IS their IM. Kudos to all of them (us). Why not $20? because you have deemed $50 to be the appropriate price? What is his/her overhead? How much time are they out there? what is that time worth? How much time is spent retouching? Is a photography will to ship unretouched jpegs, this can reflect poorly on there work? Do you always barter, or only in this case because you deem it too expensive? |
| 2010-06-23 9:49 AM in reply to: #2938451 |
| Extreme Veteran 398 Denver | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Gaarryy - 2010-06-23 10:09 AM nc452010 - 2010-06-23 8:27 AM
"Just curious do you barter for most things you want to buy based on what you believe is a fair price. when you fill up your car with gas to you tell them that $2.75/gallon is to much, but out of the kindness of your heart you will pay $1.50? after all that is better for them then you driving away and paying zero?" I think you know this doesn't make any sense...race photos are a luxury, gas is a necessity...if I don't want to pay 2.75 a gallon for gas, obviously someone else will...but if I don't want to pay $90 for my race photos do you think someone else will buy the photos of me? certainly not... Edited by AngeloS 2010-06-23 9:50 AM |
| 2010-06-23 9:53 AM in reply to: #2938403 |
| Member 57 | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? morey000 - 2010-06-23 9:54 AM Personally- I like the word "proof" on my photos. This!  I have never bought pictures from any event. They are usually about the same quality (for practical usage) as our point and shoot. I don't need to blow myself up to life size, I simply want a picture to remember. Since they are up online, its not too hard to get a digital version with "proof" that I did the race |
| 2010-06-23 9:53 AM in reply to: #2938585 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? FeltonR.Nubbinsworth - 2010-06-23 10:47 AM nc452010 - 2010-06-23 9:27 AM With all due respect....a sprint IS the be all and end all of some people's lives (at that time). And, there's not a thing wrong with that. That sprint IS their IM. Kudos to all of them (us). Why not $20? because you have deemed $50 to be the appropriate price? What is his/her overhead? How much time are they out there? what is that time worth? How much time is spent retouching? Is a photography will to ship unretouched jpegs, this can reflect poorly on there work? Do you always barter, or only in this case because you deem it too expensive? Completely irrelevant. Worth is determined by the customer, not the seller. The seller can only determine the pricepoint in which he or she can produce plus profit. The car example is also irrelevant because anyone can buy that car. These are photos of an idividual. You either sell them or you do not. Nobody else is going to purchase them so they either recoup some costs or get nothing. With a car you can potentially sell to someone else or at least depreciate your business capital. Try depreciating that photo. |
| 2010-06-23 9:54 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Expert 3126 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Comparing this situation to a new car or a gallon of gas is not an accurate analogy. First, if it costs a car manufacturer $20k to make a car, they put it on sale for $30k and I say I want to pay $15k then of course the answer is going to be no. The crucial difference here is that if I don't buy the car or the gallon of gas, someone else will. Anyone might want the car, and everyone needs the gallon of gas. No one is going to want pictures of me racing. Joe Blow isn't going to walk into the photographers shop and say I really want/need pictures of some random guy racing a triathlon. This $50 deal the OP is offering is the only way this photographer is going to make money off of the work they have already done. Simple economics says they have a supply but no demand for these particular pictures at the current price, so lower the price. Aside from the fact that it did not cost them $90 to produce these pictures, I'd say $50 is a pretty good deal and more than I would offer. However, if it doesn't happen it will only be because they don't want word getting out that they can be bargained with. If I were the photographer I would offer packages at $15-$20. I sure as he// would have bought pictures of my first HIM for $25-$35, but there is no way I was going to pay the $90-$110 they were asking. I am sure there are many other people in the same boat. |
| 2010-06-23 9:57 AM in reply to: #2938396 |
| Master 1699 Malvern, PA | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? aquageek - 2010-06-23 9:52 AM nc452010 - 2010-06-23 8:34 AM I disagree with nothing you siad, mmrocker. I'm wondering - in what book is $0 is a better business model than $50. I'f I'm running a business and my customers pay the price I find reasonable, why would I accept less and ultimately end up hurting my business model in the long term? You don't like the product or price, don't buy it but don't expect the business owner to find what you offer to be reasonable just because you do. If I don't like the $30,000 car, why should I expect the dealer to accept $15,000 for it? There are many business models where $0 is better than another higher number, many, millions in fact. exactly... well put... |
| 2010-06-23 10:01 AM in reply to: #2938397 |
| Expert 1322 Savannah | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? trimore - 2010-06-23 9:52 AM Photography has become much tougher for the professionals because anyone can go out and buy a $500 camera, use Google edit tool and produces pictures that most people are very happy with. That makes it tougher for the pro to differenciate themselves. 20 years ago it took years and years of expericence and alot of expensive equipment to produce good to really good pictures. That is not the case anymore. I am not saying that there is no value to a pro, there definitely is, it is just that technology has enabled the non-pro or amateur to get closer to what only a pro could do in the past. I say the offer you made is fair. I will often use the same logic especially when there is no hard cost involved. In your case, the photographer already put the time in and the only cost at this point is finding the pictures and sending them to you. $50 should be better than nothing but as the photographer, I would also kindly ask you not to tell all your friends about the same deal. And when you look at the quality of some photos it looks like it is the average Joe with a $500 digital slr took the photo. In more race photos than not the composition is less than stellar. Sure, this might be the way that these photogs make a living so they are considered professionals. But now a days professional photographer does not equate to quality photographer. |
| 2010-06-23 10:03 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Although it may seem analogous, the gallon of gas or car argument are not the same. In those instances, the price is fixed my the manufacturer who is not available for or open to negotiation. The photographer is an individual who sets the price and is in direct contact with the customer, which does open the door to neggotiation much more readily. |
| 2010-06-23 10:06 AM in reply to: #2938451 |
| Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Gaarryy - 2010-06-23 10:09 AM nc452010 - 2010-06-23 8:27 AM
Just curious do you barter for most things you want to buy based on what you believe is a fair price. when you fill up your car with gas to you tell them that $2.75/gallon is to much, but out of the kindness of your heart you will pay $1.50? after all that is better for them then you driving away and paying zero? I think some of the best tri pics I have are from friends just taking pics, not the event people. But like others have pointed out, they have processed the photo, tagged them so you can find them, advertised, web hosting, etc. all those misc. business expenses. If enough people are willing to pay the price they are asking for them to be a successful business why would they change all that for some guy that wants nearly a 50% discount, for no other reason than not wanting to pay the listed cost **however I think that is a large sum of money for the race pics, and personally I wouldnt' pay that amount, I"d pay off someone with the promise of beer later and let them take pics of me during the race I think one of the differences is in the supply and demand. The photographer has already done all the work of shooting, editing, etc. No one apart from the athlete is likely to want those photos. So the value is in part what the athlete thinks it is worth. It might not be the price point the photographer wants to sell at, but if they sell twice the photos (to more athletes) for half the price, they make the same amount of money. At the gas station, however, if I don't buy the gas, someone else surely will want it. Additionally, there is the monopoly factor. There is only one "official" photographer (lots of free amateurs, which your local gas station doesn't have to contend with - I am not going to be drilling in my backyard and refining in my shed). So if the gas is cheaper down the road, or the service is better, or whatever, I can get my gas somewhere else. But I can only buy my photos from the one person. Finally, if you offer to barter, you might get a deal. Maybe not the original one. But suppose the photographer says "I can't do $50 - but how about $60?", you are off and running a negotiation. Happens all the time with insurance companies and doctors/hospitals. We have a price we want to charge for services, the insurance wants to dicker. Sometimes we do it and sometimes we don't. |
| 2010-06-23 10:07 AM in reply to: #2938654 |
| Master 1367 Dirt Road | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? bryancd - 2010-06-23 11:03 AM Although it may seem analogous, the gallon of gas or car argument are not the same. In those instances, the price is fixed my the manufacturer who is not available for or open to negotiation. The photographer is an individual who sets the price and is in direct contact with the customer, which does open the door to neggotiation much more readily. Not always- The guy I buy my gas from sets the price. Lets just change it to owner run businesses. I don't mind the attempt to negotiate but don't get angry or critical if they won't. It is their business. |
| 2010-06-23 10:12 AM in reply to: #2938610 |
| Veteran 197 | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Pector55 - 2010-06-23 10:53 AM The car example is also irrelevant because anyone can buy that car. These are photos of an idividual. You either sell them or you do not. Nobody else is going to purchase them so they either recoup some costs or get nothing. With a car you can potentially sell to someone else or at least depreciate your business capital. Try depreciating that photo. x2. $50 is definitely a fair offer. Any offer is a fair offer; it allows the photographer to decide whether they want something or nothing. |
| 2010-06-23 10:18 AM in reply to: #2938540 |
| Expert 1151 Las Vegas, NV | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Tundra_Man - 2010-06-23 9:36 AM Last fall after a race I received an email that event photos were available for purchase. I went to the site and browsed through all of the available photos. There was one of me coming out of the water that I probably would have paid $90 for them to destroy the original. LOL & x2. I looked like I was on death's doorstep in my tri photos. |
| 2010-06-23 10:21 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
| Payson, AZ | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Your only being a jerk if you steal the photos, which a lot of folks do. You might be giving her another option to her business model that she never even thought about. IMO bartering is not a bad idea. Folks barter for stuff all the time, even cars. I've never paid the sticker price. You'll either get a yes, a no, or a counter offer. |
| 2010-06-23 10:21 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
Master 4118 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? It's fine to offer but i think it would be jerky to expect her to accept just because you see it your way. And, whether you're being a jerk or not is irrelevant to your attempt to negotiate. You have no idea of the kind of costs she's working with and what's going on with her and business - you you see a certain value. It's simple in your mind but she has every right to say no or try to negotiate a different price with you ... She may not want your $50 for a variety of reasons. |
| 2010-06-23 10:24 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
| Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? Haven't read the entire thread, but all you're doing is seeing if the photog will negotiate. Nothing wrong with that. As to whether $0 or $50 is a good business model, that's none of your business. Maybe they're independently wealthy and don't need to compromise. Maybe they think their pics are worth what they charge. Who knows? |
| 2010-06-23 10:27 AM in reply to: #2938733 |
| Champion 10018 , Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? I think your offer, assuming it was written politely and in business terms, is not at all jerky. I think jerks, in this scenario, do things like:
I race a LOT and have been patiently waiting for a picture to come up that I am willing to pay any money for. It's not happened yet. However, my family and friends have taken great ones. Two of the best were from random folks who shoot for fun at races and then tagged me on facebook! Amazing. |
| 2010-06-23 10:30 AM in reply to: #2938740 |
| Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? ChrisM - 2010-06-23 11:24 AM Haven't read the entire thread, but all you're doing is seeing if the photog will negotiate. Nothing wrong with that. As to whether $0 or $50 is a good business model, that's none of your business. Maybe they're independently wealthy and don't need to compromise. Maybe they think their pics are worth what they charge. Who knows? x2. Although I did read most of the thread. All pricing can be thought of as a negotiation. It's just that some negotiations end more quickly than others becuase buyer or seller are unwilling to 'budge'. Some people would be surprised at how many things are 'negotiable' that appear fixed. At the same time, just because you percieve your offer to be a 'good deal', don't be surprised if the other side is taking into account different factors (e.g., does negotiating here weaken my business prospects elsewhere?) and does not see it that way. |
| 2010-06-23 10:31 AM in reply to: #2938607 |
| Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? fuzzy34 - 2010-06-23 7:53 AM morey000 - 2010-06-23 9:54 AM Personally- I like the word "proof" on my photos. This! I have never bought pictures from any event. They are usually about the same quality (for practical usage) as our point and shoot. I don't need to blow myself up to life size, I simply want a picture to remember. Since they are up online, its not too hard to get steal a digital version with "proof" that I did the race Fixed it for you. And away we go.... |
| 2010-06-23 10:34 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2010-06-23 10:37 AM in reply to: #2938747 |
| Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? each time this thread comes up, I say to myself that I'm going to get a nice camera /lens print up some business cards and go to local races to take photos. Then just sell some lower res pics for five bucks (give or take.) so I can say it's a business and write off the camera and race fees. Since when I race it will really be research to find out what my future customers really want. In reality I know I'll just be chatting up hot chicks and taking pictures of ducks and squirrels |
| 2010-06-23 10:38 AM in reply to: #2938164 |
| Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Race-Day photos - Am I being a jerk? It's not really that much of a compromise (in my mind). I'm BUYING a 4 photo package from her (at her listed price). The ONLY thing I want, in return, is the files EMAILED to me (8 of the 11) in .jpeg format.....so that I can share them (electronically) with my friends and family. And, like I said ....NO HARD FEELINGS! If she accepts - fine! If she doesn't - fine! I won't lose a wink's sleep over it. jeff You see....the problem here is....she wants ME to pay for the work she did for everyone else who thinks she's ripping them off. I don't want her to not make any money. I just don't think it's fair for me to compensate for others' un-interest. And Fred.....I promise...if you give me free medical advice, I won't tell a soul. Edited by nc452010 2010-06-23 10:44 AM |
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