Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! (Page 5)

Leegoocrap - 2010-06-28 11:47 AM
In the swim, you are, generally speaking, a hazard only to yourself.

Fastyellow - 2010-06-28 4:55 PM Just out of curiosity...with the use of timing chips and mats....is there any reason to have even wave starts?

Woudn't it just be easier to have a streaming line of competitors entering the water so you would never have that chaos of large amounts of people at the same time?

The only thing this would eliminate is side by side finishes as it wouldn't matter....but it sure would make the swim a TON safer.....and not just from drownings..but getting punched and kicked and things like that.

ejshowers - 2010-06-28 3:00 PM

They have those - they are called Time Trial starts.  I have done one Tri with that format and liked it.  Swimmers entered the water every 3 seconds.  Downside is  you aren't racing with your AG competition (unless they organized the start numbers by age group, but that would be tough with last-minute registration, etc.) and I think the start might stretch out kinda long for large races (i.e. 50 minutes for 1000 racers).

ejshowers - 2010-06-28 3:00 PM

They have those - they are called Time Trial starts.  I have done one Tri with that format and liked it.  Swimmers entered the water every 3 seconds.  Downside is  you aren't racing with your AG competition (unless they organized the start numbers by age group, but that would be tough with last-minute registration, etc.) and I think the start might stretch out kinda long for large races (i.e. 50 minutes for 1000 racers).

TriMyBest - 2010-06-28 6:37 PM Spirit of Morgantown did a wave start off the end of a dock last year.  You lined up on the dock with your wave, and crossed a timing mat at the end of the dock as you entered the water.  It seemed like a good compromise between controlling the chaos of the start and still providing a racing experience.  People could enter the water 2 or 3 at a time, but no one was in a huge hurry, because your time didn't start until you crossed the mat.

crazyalaskian - 2010-06-28 3:59 PM

It has already been mentioned but I do feel that the OP was a little alarmist.  I don't think you HAVE to swim the distance before hand but I think you should and in either case, you should be able float on your back/tread water if you need to at any point.  I also don't think you HAVE to do an OWS before hand but I absolutely think you should. 

Race day will always be a different story but my advice to beginners has always been to focus on preparing themselves properly for the swim, then the bike and then the run.  You can hop off the bike and you can walk on the run which is NO BIG DEAL on your first triathlon since the first one is just about the experience and not your finish time.  But there really is nothing comparable to swimming in a triathlon. 

Every single person, whether experienced or a novice, needs to have a healthly respect for water and the dangers associated with it. 

But, back to the OP.  I kayaked in a women's only tri yesterday and was astounded at the number of people being pulled out and I saw at least 5 pulled out within the first 25 yards (and along the shore too).  Way too many people clearly were not prepared.  But, I also saw a woman (the last one out) who could not have swum that distance in a pool and certainly couldn't do it freestyle but was able to slowly but surely to double-armed backstroke the whole way (not sure why double-armed backstroke).  She is an example of how people do not HAVE to do the distance in the pool or an OWS as a prerequisite but absolutely have to have some kind of plan B for when they get tired (or freak out) and need to conserve energy.  The scariest people are those who only know how to crawl and have no plan B.

And not to drag on longer, but my statement above does not apply to an ocean swim.  The ocean scares the crap out of me and is a whole different ballgame for even a very strong swimmer....so overprepare for that one and know what to do if you ever get caught in a rip tide.

crazyalaskian - 2010-06-28 4:20 PM

A "sanctioned" kayak is not outside help so you can use it without being disqualified but if you make any forward progress with the assistance of the kayak (i.e. they paddle, or you pull yourself along the boat) you will be disqualified.

brycoy - 2010-06-28 12:44 PM darwin-ism...

i've done ows's several times and have never been nervous till reading this, lol.  Just sitting at my desk at work reading this thread makes me 2nd guess myself...i'm a supporter of being prepared and safety first, but i think this will spook some noobies off for sure.  it's like in Finding Nemo: "just keep swimming, just keep swimming" lol

KSH - 2010-06-28 7:06 PM
Was I alarmist? Yes. Of course I was. Some people need "shock" to pull their heads out of their @. No disrespect to you, but I have been on this site for years, and have made 1,000's of posts... maybe you have too, but you don't post much? But I see thread after thread after thread of someone asking if they should do a tri if they can't swim... etc. And yeah, it worries me. Then I see people post up about deaths at tri's and that horrifies me. All right, I bolded what I have issue with above... WOW. Telling someone they don't need to be able to swim the distance AND they DO NOT have to swim in open water BEFORE a race... is absolutely horrible advice. Mind you, OWS is different from pool swims. At least in a pool swim there is a shallow end, a lane rope and a wall. And why is a lake safe but an ocean is not? Yes, a lake is a little bit easier, but it still needs to be respected. Here in Texas, we have a lot of people who fall off boats, and drown. To have 2-4 deaths a month is not uncommon. Yep, deaths in lakes. So when I see someone saying they can't swim the distance... and they haven't been a lake... I say, "Get some lessons and be prepared... TRAIN." I am not saying not to try to prepare themselves, but yes, they NEED TO TRAIN FOR IT. And that means SWIMMING THE DISTANCE and doing it in OPEN WATER. A lot of people have weird panic attacks in open water. Something they don't know they have until they get in and BAM! they are panicked. So it is really wise to have your first OWS on RACE DAY? Probably not. I do agree that being able to tread water and float on one's back are skills that everyone needs. This should be practiced in training.

WelshinPhilly - 2010-06-28 4:46 PM



Absolutely not.

A panicking, unprepared swimmer is a hazard to everyone around them that they could grab and drag down, a hazard to the lifeguards that have to help them, and a hazard to someone else who could be having a genuine medical emergency that the now-distracted lifeguard cannot see because they're helping the panicking swimmer.

And (not directed at you, Leego, I just figured I'd post one reply) this thread isn't about elitism, or swim snobbishness. It's about telling people what they NEED to hear, not what they WANT to hear. The "beginner-friendly" aspect of this site sometimes gets in the way of that. Try posting some of these "can I make the swim?" questions over on ST and you'd get torn apart. Here you get a bunch of responses about holding onto kayaks etc.

Imagine announcing that you're going to run across Death Valley in the daytime with no hydration or nutrition, a 5k as your longest training run, and zero experience of training in the heat. People would tell you that you're crazy to even attempt it, but when questions about the swim come up, it's the opposite here. Why is that?

WelshinPhilly - Imagine announcing that you're going to run across Death Valley in the daytime with no hydration or nutrition, a 5k as your longest training run, and zero experience of training in the heat. People would tell you that you're crazy to even attempt it, but when questions about the swim come up, it's the opposite here. Why is that?

faded_memories - 2010-06-28 11:54 PM How about a policy that anyone that hasn't done a OWS Tri be put in a special beginner swimmers wave, and that wave is done LAST so that the staff can give them almost full attention.

Not so practical, but better than some other suggestions I think.

-eric 

mrcurtain - 2010-06-29 2:52 AM
Thank you for the advice on the swim safe belt.  That's a valuable piece of information that everyone should know when making their own informed decisions about whether or not to participate in an event.

But otherwise, you're not my mother, so stop trying to act like it.  We're all adults here, and we should be able to make our own informed decisions.

Walking down the street KILLS.  There is risk in each and everything thing that we do.  And I for one and tired of god d*mned nanny laws where people like you tell me how I must live my life.

WelshinPhilly - 2010-06-28 5:46 PM

Absolutely not.

A panicking, unprepared swimmer is a hazard to everyone around them that they could grab and drag down, a hazard to the lifeguards that have to help them, and a hazard to someone else who could be having a genuine medical emergency that the now-distracted lifeguard cannot see because they're helping the panicking swimmer.

And (not directed at you, Leego, I just figured I'd post one reply) this thread isn't about elitism, or swim snobbishness. It's about telling people what they NEED to hear, not what they WANT to hear. The "beginner-friendly" aspect of this site sometimes gets in the way of that. Try posting some of these "can I make the swim?" questions over on ST and you'd get torn apart. Here you get a bunch of responses about holding onto kayaks etc.

Imagine announcing that you're going to run across Death Valley in the daytime with no hydration or nutrition, a 5k as your longest training run, and zero experience of training in the heat. People would tell you that you're crazy to even attempt it, but when questions about the swim come up, it's the opposite here. Why is that?