running bike mount with shoes clipped in pedals

Yup! Here's an awesome transition video from BT:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=1488

I'm slow, so I figured the transition was one area I could master and do well before my first race. My T1 time was 1:50 (on par with the top athletes, whereas my overall time was barely in the top half of 1,000), so I definitely recommend this!

I didn't practice my "flying mount" exhaustively in a parking lot. I just made a habit of only mounting my bike this way for the month or so before my race. After watching this video, I practiced loosening my shoes and doing the "flying dismount" for about a week or so. You don't need to go to a parking lot and practice it constantly...just make it  a habit so it's incorporated into your muscle memory.

I freaked out when I learned that rubber bands (and/or duct tape) were involved, and realized I didn't have the tri shoes with loops that make this possible, but you don't need them. When you set up your bike in transition, place your strong foot at 3 o'clock and your weaker foot at 9 o'clock (doesn't really matter if you mix them up). Unless you're a size 16, your shoes won't move while you run with your bike--we had over 1,000 ft to the mount/dismount line--and it'll work seamlessly.

My T1 times are typically in the top 10 - 15% and I almost never do it.

To me it is silly unless you are going for top AG placing or the overall (or the transition area is crazy long like at the Nations Tri).  In smaller races I was going for those sort of placings and I still didn't do it.  Never hurt my race.  The extra 10 seconds someone gains in transition is then lost on their bike split trying to get into their shoes.  Gotta think big picture, not just one aspect of the race.

Highly disagree.

Look at it this way. You MUST put your bike shoes on in a triathlon.
You can do this moving
or
You can do it not moving.

You would have to take a Seriously long time fumbling with your shoes for it to actually end up slower.

I just don't understand... people will spend thousands of dollars to buy speed, but won't spend 5-10 minutes at the end of their ride practicing something that will make them faster for free.

you could always leave them clipped in, and instead of doing the "flying mount", you could just step on the pedals, and then get up to speed

Feel free to, it is your perogative.

But it does take time to get shoes on while riding, and during that time you are coasting and losing some speed.  I have also seen very experienced riders go down because they thought they were trying to be a bad azz and do flying mounts and missed their shoes that were pre-clipped.  It is not a pretty site.

It is really not necessary and it is NOT free speed.  Practice putting them on in transition and running.  That way when there is a race that doesn't allow it, you will be prepared.

Edited by Road Phoenix 2010-07-30 7:04 AM

X2 all the way around.

This is one of those techniques that some will swear by, some will swear against. IMHO it comes down to personal preference and experience. Here are mine:

I started practicing this after runing a brand new pair of Look cleats running through a long asphalt transition. I haven't ruined a set of cleats since then.

I'm a lot faster running barefoot than in bike shoes and cleats.

I've been doing this for years, do it every training ride and race, and have not (knock on wood) had a mount/dismount incident. That others do is of little concern to me.

In local races, I am always in contention for an AG award. The "extra 10 seconds" I gain in transition has gained me AG position in several races.

Yes, I'm coasting on the bike when I'm slipping into my shoes. At 20mph. A lot faster than someone is going while standing in transition.  My speed may fall 1/2mph, half a dozen pedal strokes later I'm back up to speed and slipping ino the other shoe. Rarely does someone pass me while this is happening.

I strongly advise everyone NOT to try this in a race unless it's become second nature in training. And under no circumstances should you do this if you're in the M55-59AG.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion.  But I will still be beating them in transition and on the bike.  If I am out of transition and up to 25+ within a few hundred meters and don't have to worry about shoes I am golden.  I've passed plenty that were fiddling with their shoes and never saw them again in the race.

Edit: And riding in pack where you do not have to work to maintain pace allows you to put on the shoes easier (and where losing 10 seconds means you lose the pack) has absolutely ZERO to do with normal non-drafting tris.  Even elite AGers are not even close to the same league as an ITU pro.  Seconds matter there as there is someone's livelyhood on the line.  Joe Trigeek has pride on the line, that's it.  It is a hobby, unneccessary risks aren't worth it.

Oh, and I am very good at getting on the bike and getting into my shoes.  I STILL choose to put them on in transition because to me it is safer and faster.

Edited by Road Phoenix 2010-07-30 10:06 AM

I'm not going to tell the op how to (or how not to) do transitions. I've tried both techniques, and for me, having my shoes clipped in and doing a running mount is far faster. Like others have said, a race isn't the place to try it out. Practice to see if it works for you. I'm much more confident running barefoot than with cleats, and once I'm up to 20 plus mph it takes me about 5 sec per shoe to get my feet in.

I don't know about the OP experience level in triathlons, but for new triathletes in general, this is not something they should be concerning themselves with IMO.

Work on being a faster swimmer, runner, and cyclist first, then maybe spend sometime learning a skill that might save you a few seconds. Doing the S/B/R thing to the best of your abilities is going to save you many more minutes.



Edited by rventuri 2010-07-30 11:52 AM

x2 on the youtube videos! They are very useful.

RP...you have zero logic in your argument. If you are standing or sitting still while putting your shoes on while I am going 20+ mph while I am putting mine on... you are losing time.  There is no doubt about it.  If we have the same bike split, you will never catch me.  It is as simple as that.  That is not even taking into consideration the time you spend clipping in.

I'm with you, why stand still in T1 puting your shoes on when you can at least be moving forward on the bike. I can do the running mount then up to 20 mph without having my feet in the shoes. it then takes very little time to slide them in, meenwhile I'm still doing 18-20mph. that's obviously faster than standing in T1 then running on very awkward shoes to the mount area.

You guys are wasting your time trying to convince him about this, Road Phoenix haunts these bike mount threads like a crazy old man yelling stay off my lawn!!!

If you're slower doing a flying mount than putting your shoes on in transition, then you're not doing it right.

A little thought experiment:

Two people enter T1 at the same time. Person A stops and puts on their bike shoes. Person B does not. All other things are equal. Even with a single strap shoe, it's going to be tough to get both shoes on in less than 6-7 seconds. A, therefore, leaves their rack 6 seconds after B.

B can run faster than A, since he's running barefoot. This is particularly true if there are any tight turns on concrete or asphalt prior to the mount line. With the barefoot advantage, B increases his lead and gets to the mount line 8 seconds ahead of A.

At the mount line, B never stops moving. He hops a step or two while bringing his left foot up on top of his shoe and stands on it. He then swings his right foot over and begins pedaling. A must stop to get clipped in. The fastest way is to clip his left foot in and then swing his right leg over and clip his right foot in. Add 2 seconds, minimum. If he swings his right leg over first and then clips in, add 3-4 seconds.

If A is absolutely perfect and doesn't fumble the slightest bit, he's 10 seconds behind B at this point. It's probably safe to bet that he's closer to 12-15 seconds back.

A and B both get up to speed. A is 10 seconds behind B through this acceleration. Let's say their final speed is 20 mph and that it takes them 10 seconds to get there (which seems a little slow without going out and testing it, but it makes the math easy). So for the first 10 seconds, B moves at an average of 10 mph, or 14.67 fps. At the end of his acceleration, when A starts pedaling, B is 146.7 feet ahead. For the next 10 seconds, B is moving at 20 mph, or 29.3 fps, while A is moving at an average of 14.67 fps. Therefore, by the time both are up to speed, A is 293 feet behind B.

B must then stop pedaling to get his feet in his shoes. Despite being on the bike, it doesn't take any longer to actually stick your foot in the shoe and strap it then it does if you're standing in T1, but I'm feeling generous, so let's say it takes 2 seconds longer. So B coasts for 4 seconds to get one foot in, spins out several revolutions, then coasts for another 4 seconds for the other foot. Assuming B is getting his feet in the pedals on a flat or downhill section (and he should never do otherwise), then he's going to lose almost no speed at all. Even if he lost as much as 1 mph for that full 8 seconds (go out and try it, you wont), A will only make up 12 feet during that time. That means less than 1/2 second.

So B is more than 9 seconds faster than A, if both execute perfectly. If I haven't made the point strongly enough, keep in mind that B has a much greater margin of error. The only thing he can really screw up is getting his left foot on top of the shoe at the mount line. Even if he flubs it, he's not going to lose more than 2-3 seconds. If he screws up actually getting his feet in the shoes, he loses fractions of a second because he's already at speed. A, on the other hand, can screw up in T1 getting his feet in the shoes, he can screw up at the mount line getting his left foot clipped in, and he can even screw up after he's mounted while getting his right foot clipped in.

Does that 9 seconds matter? Who knows? But this is speed that only takes a little practice. Like Bear, I always leave my pedals clipped in and practice my flying mount every time I go out and ride. That means that when I'm practicing, it's actually harder than on race day, because for practice I don't have the rubber band keeping the shoe horizontal.

Oh, and referencing the people you've passed that were fiddling with their shoes is completely meaningless, as is the fact that you never saw them again.

For all you know, they came out of the water 15 seconds behind you and passed you while you put your shoes on and clodded to the mount line. You bike speed compared to theirs is irrelevant to this conversation.

Beat me to this....dang it!

Bah, what do you know!  With your Kona qualifying and Zoot Elite team status.  You're just another hack who listens to Abba and shaves his legs.

Now get off my lawn!

(Considering this guy is the only one here I would legitimately fear for both transition and bike splits that were faster than mine).

As a side note to those who "dont have the heel loops" or "shoe loops" for the rubber band.
Just wrap the rubber band around your cleat and then fasten to rear release and the other to whatever-deraileur, bottle cage, rear nut.

speed in transition versus speed from pedaling
why not both?

enter RP bandwagon bashing comment here (_________________________) haha

to the OP...i'm a newb, did my first tri a month ago and my second this past weekend. i did a flying mount in both without any problem. just personal preference. i like a challenge. to second what Bear said. practice it on your daily rides. unless i'm switching to my road bike my shoes never come off my tri bike. i fly mount/dismount every ride. it's as common as putting my helmet on now.

Yup, that's what I use.

I never do the "flying mount".  Shoes clipped in, pedals at 3 and 9, cross mount line, step on pedal, off you go.  Get up to speed put feet in shoes.

On the dismount, take feet out of shoes say 100m before the end of the bike.  As you approach the dismount line, swing one leg over the seat so your body is on one side of the bike (stand on one of the pedals only), approach the dismount line braking.  Make sure you are at 'running appropriate speed' when you get to the dismount line, jump off and run with bike.

Yes, just to be clear, I do NOT try and run and jump on my bike. I stop and swing a leg over to stand on top of my clipped in shoes and then proceed.

agreed, i step on the pedal and swing myh leg over as i go.


and road phoenix, i'll challenge you to a transition contest ANY DAY (just put a swim first to make sure your hands are good and shaking;-)

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