General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Run pace...LSD compared to 5K? Rss Feed  
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2005-12-18 7:52 PM

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Subject: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?

I was wondering how most people's long slow run pace compares to their 5K pace? Is there a rule of thumb or does it depend on many factors?

I have heard when you double the length of a run in a race your time increases 5% if you are very fit and up to 10% slower if you are average person. I'm not sure how that translates into long slow run compared to 5K.

My long run m/m is down 1:45 per mile and my 5K time is improving as well since July. It seems to be about a minute different....and it seems from reading others blogs they seem farther apart. I'm a new runner, relatively slow and working on being faster.

I'd love to hear how your times vary between long slow runs, 5K's and more.



2005-12-18 8:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
Hi Kathy,

I think you'd enjoy reading Hadd's Approach to Distance Training. There's a link to it on my site right here: http://www.counterpartcoaching.com/articles.htm

Mitch
2005-12-18 9:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
This varies by individual based on muscle fiber type and previous training.

I have done thousands of aerobic threshold tests using a metabolic analyzer and have found that almost every athlete performs basic endurance workouts in all three sports too fast. You almost can't do these workouts too slowly.

Benefits of keeping the correct, VERY SLOW pace include:
1. Maximal stimulation of slow twitch (endurance) muscle fibers
2. Workout duration can be extended more aggressively and comfortably
3. Fat burning will be much higher
4. Workout recovery will be much faster as the ST fibers recover better than the FT fibers and because less glycgen is burned, making refueling the muscles a quicker process

Problems with performing these workouts too fast are the converse of each point above.

Remember that even a sprint triathlon is an endurance-based, aerobic event. Work on lacate threshold and aerobic capcity in seperate workouts. When you're working on endurance, go slow!

Ken
2005-12-18 10:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
KathyG - 2005-12-18 8:52 PM

...

I'd love to hear how your times vary between long slow runs, 5K's and more.

My LSD of 16 miles yesterday averaged 10:45 mpm.  Last sprint (5K run - Aug 2005) tri I did had my pace at 8:52 mpm.  The first race I EVER competed in took place in August 2004 and was a 5K.  I ran that race in 35:17, which equated to about ~11:23 mpm.

I try to do my long runs at around 11:00 mpm.  Yesterday, I ran with a friend and he pushed our pace on the second half of the run which lowered my time - we hit 8 miles at 1:27.50 and the second 8 miles took us 1:24.??.  The first half we were nailing 10:50mpm (darn close to what I want) and 10:30 for the second half. 

As far as working on being faster, I don't really care.  I'm shooting for distance and endurance - I know that with time and aerobic training, speed on the shorter distances will come sooner or later and that without too much extra work.  

Steve    



Edited by sranney 2005-12-18 10:15 PM
2005-12-18 11:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
Check this out....plug in your 5K time, it will tell you what your pace should be on any other distance...it is uncanny how well it matched up my 10K and half marathon times...

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcm...
2005-12-18 11:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
As a slow new runner myself, my best mile split is 8:53 for a three mile run. For me, a 5 miler is long, like today, where I was 11:40 over 56 minutes, so almost two minutes. On the three mile run I was toast. today I could have gone longer


2005-12-19 6:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
My 5k pace is low 6's (6:20-ish), my LSD pace I try to keep in the 8:00 - 8:20 range now (when I trained for my marathon it was in the mid - low 9's).

So for me it is about 2 minutes off. But everyone is different as has been stated.
2005-12-19 7:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
Kathy,

My best 5k pace is a 7:27 m/m.
I typically do my LSRs around a 9:45 - 10:00 m/m pcae.

Keep up the good work!

Rob
2005-12-19 7:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
Is it odd that I run faster during my LSD's than 5k's? Maybe i just haven't been timing myself well enough. In swimming, my per 100 pace is faster the longer I go. I dunno, 5k just seems too short for me to find a groove now. Granted my groove is like a 9 something mile, but I'm working on it.
2005-12-19 7:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?

phoenixazul - 2005-12-19 7:48 AM Is it odd that I run faster during my LSD's than 5k's? 

Yes.

2005-12-19 7:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

It seems most of you have a 2 minute per mile difference or there about with many of you responding what I consider more advanced runners than I. I am building my base this off season. My coach figured my heart rate zones and for my long slow run I am to keep my HR under 146....after about 45 minutes it normally drops into the 130's.

One of the goals I have is to learn to run faster. Now is not the time of the year to work on speed....but for the first time I am building a base should that help me next season. My long slow runs are getting faster which I find encouraging.



2005-12-19 8:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?

Kathy –

IMO, I don’t think you should exclude tempo runs or training your LT as long as you keep it at 10% of your total weekly volume. Let’s say you run 90 min a week. You can safely do a 10-15 min tempo runs (at 90-95%) of your LT and get your body use to run faster. Just warm up thoroughly 10-15 min before and cool down after…

2005-12-19 8:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
I agree that one 15 minute tempo run per week, slightly below LT could be appropriate.

Still, the top priorities, right now, to help you run faster next year are strength training and technique. It is very likely that you have much more to gain b increasing efficiency than fitness. This is the perfect time of year to incorporate running drills and to improve your biomechancs. Faster runners don't run the same way you do, only they are stronger ... they se different technique.

Ken
2005-12-19 11:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?

Ken, I am reading your book. I think the chapter on getting to your ideal race weight is the best information out there. I highly recommend Ken's book for anyone trying to lose a few poounds or more than that. He explains how to teach your body how to burn fat instead of store it, with concrete ideas...it is great and is helping me a lot. I look forward to your next book concentrating on weight loss for triathletes.

I'm reading and digesting the run technique chapters...and do need to work on it and study it more. I am concentrating on increasing my cadence.. I think the DVD will help even more to be able to see it.

I play soccer 60 minutes a week...normally 6 minutes on and 6 minutes off the field......so I play about 30 minutes. I'm counting that to speed type of workouts. I can tell I'm getting faster at sprinting as I can now keep up with most of the other players and can beat some for 15-25 yd sprint where 6 months ago most of them could get away from me.

Now just to avoid injuries playing soccer and I'll be good.

I'm doing free weight strength training 2x a week. I can tell it is helping strengthen my core...now I can do push ups easily!! Even as a kid I couldn't do them.



Edited by KathyG 2005-12-19 11:22 PM
2005-12-20 10:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
My current LSD pace (10-15 miles) is 7:40-7:50 although that keeps me in low Z2.  I could go 7:30ish if I used the top end of Z2.  My marathon race pace is ~6:40, my 10k pace is ~5:58, and my 5k pace is 5:37.  That's a good 3min difference between my LSD training pace and my 5k race pace.  But I certainly don't use pace to manage my training runs (not LSD anyway).  HR is the key here...keep it in Z1/Z2 regardless of the pace.
2005-12-20 10:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?
Hi Kathy,

I'm certain the above posters have answered your question, however, the rule of thumb I use is LSD is the point in which I can talk comfortably with a running mate with the sensation that I could continue for hours. A 5k pace, to be honest, is only on the track for me personally. Good luck!


2005-12-20 11:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Run pace...LSD compared to 5K?

My 5K split times in sprint triathlons lately have been consistent with the pace of my Z2 LSD training runs.  I attribute that to the fatigue level after the swim & bike legs, that and the lack of brick training.

I'm about six months into my HR base training. I'm still slow, but feeling stronger and seem to need less recovery time, which are good things.  I'm trying to stay disciplined about my HR training, but it's sooo frustrating forcing myself to run slower when my goal is to run faster.  I'm hoping to see some payoff this summer.  

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General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Run pace...LSD compared to 5K? Rss Feed