Fred D Mentor Group Part III (Page 4)

Hum, that would actually fit my schedule fairly well.  It is kind of similar to the program I followed when training for the Portland marathon. 

Stravos, what a great progression on your training and races.

I am not sure if this is what you meant, but I don't believe that choosing between the "BarryP 1-2-3 running plan" or "working on a 10k program" to improve your shorter distance times are mutually exclusive. I think you can use the BarryP plan as a 10k program to improve your shorter distance times.

Best wishes on your winter goals.

Question on swimming at T pace.  What is it?  I understood it to be basically your pace for a 1000yd/meter TT.  But in my head, if I'm doing 100's on that pace, then I'm going too slowly, I "feel" like I should be pushing harder for the shorter sets. 

My last 1000 TT was done at a 1:37/100yd pace, and I'll try to swim 100's usually at a 1:35ish pace, maybe a touch faster (sometimes a touch slower) depending on the day.  200's-400's I don't want to be swimming any slower than a 1:40 pace.  This is all completely made up in my head, so I'd love to get an idea how much of a swim workout (i.e 2500 yards total) should be at T pace, below T pace, and above T pace.  And if someone can define how much above or below T pace one should go, that would be really helpful.

Bio coming...

Were you completely wasted at the end of the test?  How much rest do you give yourself between 100s?

It took me about 6 to 6.5 months to get from 20 mpw to 40 mpw using BarryP's program. The foot got hurt June 2011 (well before I started the plan). I let it heal up before starting Barry's plan and the foot was good from the start of the plan in October 2011 until mid to end of April 2012. Now I'm working with a PT to "fix" the foot for good (I'm not willing to do surgery).

I agree.  I'd go further and say that the key to running for almost everybody is patience.

As for the swimming intensity discussion -- very helpful, in a motivating way.  I raced this past weekend and that race really cemented in my mind just how important improving on the swim is for me.  I know that many people say "well it's a small part of the race; just get through it and hammer the bike and run and you can make up the deficit".  For a couple of years, that strategy was working for me, but I've hit the limits of what *I* can achieve doing it.  The guys I've got my eyes on, now, are just as fast as I am on the bike and run, but slaughter me in the swim.

Don't think there was too much left in the tank after the test.  100's are usually done on 10-15sec rest.

Even if you don't see massive time gains, at least you can get out of the water feeling a lot better.  I read a lot of race reports where people say they spend the first 5-10 mins on the bike getting their HR under control from the swim.  I can red-line the swim in a sprint and an olympic and by the time I get on my bike I'm ready to ride.  I (perhaps mistakenly) attribute that somewhat to swimming hard and having to recover quickly on a regular basis.

NAME: GoFaster / Neil

STORY: This was my 5th year of Tri's and I wanted it to be a bit of a breakout year, which it was.  Made the podium a couple of times at the Sprint/Olympic distance, and set a new PB for the HIM (result didn't reflect how good the race actually was).  So 2012 was a banner year of sorts.

I didn't have a background in any of the sports, but have taken to running, while swimming seems to give me the most trouble.  I'm generally solid MOP on the bike, although this year I moved to a Speed Concept and found some extra speed.  I originally got into Tri's because I'd been lifting weights for a couple of years, but recognized that I wasn't really in shape, and I wanted a new challenge. 

FAMILY STATUS: Married, great wife, two crazy kids. 

CURRENT TRAINING:   The last few weeks have been poor, as it was a long season and I needed some down time + I injured my ITB (not the first time).  Training in 2012 was the most consistent that it's been, and I spent more time in the pool than ever before.  I only got marginally faster, but felt that the fitness I built up with all the swimming lent itself to stronger bike/run performances this year.  I enjoy running and was normally 3-4 runs per week, 2-3 trainer rides + 1 outdoor ride each week, and 3-4 swims every week.  This volume was pretty close to the max that my life allows for at the moment (maybe a bit too much on occasion).

2012 RACES: Two Sprints, one Olympic, and one Half Ironman. 

2013 RACES:  Starting to think about this now.  Would like to put Rev 3 Quassy 1/2 on the list for June, and then target Sprints and Olympics for the remainder of the season.  Also looking at a Half Marathon in March (just need to fix the leg again).

WEIGHTLOSS: I'm a lightweight.  At just over 6' feet I was below 150lbs for much of the summer.  I'm thinking about lifting some weights over the winter just to add on a bit of weight.  I'm sure it will slow me down a touch.

WHAT WILL MAKE ME A GOOD MENTEE:  I've been lucky enough to be part of some great groups in the past (including some of Fred's), and have learned that groups are a tremendous opportunity to share your own views, have those views critiqued, and hopefully help others while in the process of learning from others.  I also key off strong, motivated individuals - so a good group helps push me, and I want to contribute as much as possible.

Oh, and I ask a lot of questions.

Wow, page 5.  I must have blinked!  More than anyone cares to know....

NAME: Jason Atwater

STORY: 2012 was my 4^th year of training.  I didn’t really race this year due to some busy family times and a job change.  I enjoy training and I’m not one to go out and do a ton of races anyway. 

2009 - I taught myself to swim and trained for a sprint to lose some weight.  I was turning 30 and at 5’ 9” had been weight around 225lbs.   I did the sprint and then the next week I signed up for Timberman which was about 10 wks later.  Lost close to 40lbs from that winter thru the summer.  2010 – I kept training and started ramping up my run load.  Did Timberman again about 40min faster and broke 5hrs.  Then I started to really get the bug.  2011 – Rev3 Quassy and IMLP.  Had a good lead-up that spring but in May had some major personal stuff w/ work and being laid off that really put a damper on my mental focus.  Ironman wasn’t perfect and was 10lbs more than I had planned (is anyone’s ever?).  I was happy to do it with a great group of guys I train w/ though and vowed I’d return for vengeance (at that course or another).  I ended up running a bunch and doing the Philly marathon that fall too and felt pretty good coming in around 3:21 (weighted around 180lbs for that).  That was my first real try trying to run a marathon and still carrying a bit of extra weight being not super lean and too upper body heavy.  2012 – Kind of did what I felt like.  I ended up throwing a bike race on my calendar but it got canceled.  It did motivate me though and I am entering the winter with some higher than ever power numbers. 

FAMILY STATUS: Married. 2 small kids ages 4 and 16months. 

CURRENT TRAINING: I don’t do big volume in general because I don’t have the time, but try to just get some quality workout in.  I’ve got my bike FTP up around 310 watts right now (just based on my training rides.  Haven’t tested in a long time) and am starting to get my run up a little now again that it’s fall. I will start sprinkling more and more swims in as we get into winter.  I’d like to get my half marathon time down in the high 1:2x range.

2013 RACES: Probably Quassy HIM and another later summer HIM.  I haven’t settled yet, but I know I want to do a couple of of HIMs and Quassy is local to me.

WEIGHT LOSS GOALS: I am currently 5 ft 9 in and weigh 185 lbs (was back up to 190 a couple weeks ago).  After losing that initial 40lbs when I started a couple years ago, I’ve been stuck in the 180s and broken to high 17x here and there.  My diet is horrendous.   I realize to take it to the next level and run like I think I’m capable of then I really need to lose at least 10lbs if not 15 or 20.  I do carry some muscle on me and don’t see me being much less than 170 ever.  On the bike, it isn’t good but you get away with it on most triathlon courses.  On the run, I’m giving away 30sec/mi for free right now.  It’s my biggest limiter at this point and it’s very mental and something I struggle with if we are being honest. I don’t know why, I just have a huge appetite, like food and I eat it.  Pretty simple.

Goals:  Enter spring training season 175lbs or less.  Bike FTP 320-330.  13.1 < 1:29.  I never owned a bike until 2009 season when I started and it’s a natural strength.  I’d like to capitalize on it and get my run and racing weight to a more competitive point.  I think if I do, I can be successful at the 70.3 distance.  I’ve been very fortunate (knock on wood) that I don’t seem to ever get hurt and I can run and ride hard pretty often.  Not sure if it’s from all the strength training I used to do or soccer back in the day or what.  For that reason, I can be a little more aggressive with my run training than some.

Really good point, Shane. No, not every main set has to be ABC (annihilate, barf, cry) but the less swimming one is doing the more of it needs to maximized for effort.

Swimming in triathlon is mentally misleading. It's easy to get into "it's the smallest percentage of a tri" mentality, but as others have pointed out, the benefits critically accrue to the bike and run, and another unfortunate truth is that long or short, one is going to have to put the kind of effort and attention to swimming that one does to cycling and running in order to improve as much as those disciplines.

Swimming doesn't realize it's only X percent of a triathlon. To get better at it, you have to put in as much as you do to get better at anything.

That is great news!!

This! I think it can be attributed to general comfort in the water. I know how to pace hard sets and still be ready for the next one - so I know how to swim and be ready to bike.

I think a big part of it, too, is pacing. There's really no ability to monitor HR or pace effectively, so people without a swimming background don't have as much of a "feel" for it. If you took away all of the gadgets, a lot of people would struggle to pace the bike and run off of feel. In the swim, everyone is blind to everything but their own RPE.