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Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? (Page 2)
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 2013-09-22 7:51 AM in reply to: Shop Cat |
 1159   |  Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?There was a discussion going on on a blog that I follow talking about the USAT survey for Clyde's/Athena's that just went out - and some of the people were discussing/complaining about how as an Athena that is 40 they may have to compete against an Athena that is 25, or an Athena that is 5'2" would have to compete against one that is 5'8" etc... but it got me thinking about which is any of these variables would be the best predictor of finishing, if they were to be used for categories - age/weight/height... (it also pointed out to me that I really need to go back to school, when I start designing statistical analysis for triathlon results...) |
| 2013-09-22 8:00 AM in reply to: Shop Cat |
| Member 163 | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? I won a bowling trophy in high school. Nothing else - ever. I would love to get a medal in anything anytime, even if it was an AG award in which nobody else showed up. I long for the day I can scoff at how it's getting too easy for a person to medal. It has never been easy for me. I don't understand the concern. I've heard the argument that we give too many participation awards to kids, and I understand the reasoning for kids. But triathlon awards go to adults. I don't think a (literally) two-bit medal is going to mess up the outlook of this 52-year-old. |
| 2013-09-22 9:13 AM in reply to: JZig |
Member 5452  NC | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? I'm outraged. |
| 2013-09-22 12:07 PM in reply to: Shop Cat |
Veteran 732 Pittsburgh, PA | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Meh... most of the tris I do aren't USAT sanctioned, and tend to do 10-year age groups. That makes sense to me. But if you're USAT sanctioned, you should play by the rules, and if you're interested in USAT rankings you know how to work the system to place high in small races. Most of us don't care and race what we feel like racing. Obviously, unless you're super-fast, a lot of it depends on who shows up. I recently did a 5k, and I just aged into W35-39. Last year I would have placed. This year I was MOP. I think any triathlete (or endurance athlete in general) is going to be more impressed by an AG win in M35-39 in a big tri than they are by an overall win in a small tri, The 99.5% of the population who doesn't care about tris is impressed by my 3rd OA out of 10 women, or my 1st Age Group because there were 3 women faster than me in my AG who placed OA. I think most of us are pretty aware of how good a triathlete we are, but it's still fun to get medals for showing up.  |
| 2013-09-22 1:19 PM in reply to: JZig |
| 282 | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Originally posted by JZig 0-15 16-17 18-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40-44 45-49 50-54 55-59 60-64 65-69 70-74 75-79 80-84 85+ Clyde Athena Overall M Overall F By my count that is a possible 120 AG medals up for grabs at every race. If I show up to a local sprint with 300 participants close to half of the people get an AG award? Is this just taking the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality just a little too far? Even in decent sized races lots of people less popular age groups taking home a medal just for finishing. A lot of age groups don't even have three participants at many smaller races. Isn't this a little pointless since we're all getting a finisher's medal anyway? I don't think the "issue" is with the number of awards the "issue" is simply with the ratio of participants to awards. For example is 120 awards in a race of 12,000 too many? That way only the top 1% get awards, does anyone really think that is too many? However how about 120 awards in a race of 120 people? These are obviously the two extremes, but they show the Real issue quite well. So the solution is for the RD to simply say awards will not be given out for categories with less than X* participants and for awards purposes that category will simply be combined with the category below it. *X could be any amount they choose, 3, 10, 50, 100, etc. |
| 2013-09-22 2:13 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Master 1858 Salt Lake City | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? The problem there is the potential for someone deserving to get shafted because their AG was underrepresented in a race. Potentially someone could finish 4th OA and go home with nothing. Maybe giving the RD discretion to combine certain AGs based on the race turnout... |
| 2013-09-22 5:48 PM in reply to: JZig |
New user 205 Athens, GA | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? I don't know. There needs to be a standard (USAT sets it, as mentioned upthread) for USAT races, because pretty much any race can qualify you for USAT nationals and they do 5-year age groups. The smallest race I did was an Oly with 16 female finishers, 45 total finishers. I finished first in my AG, which was the biggest with 7 finishers. Pretty much the only time I can imagine myself fighting it out for an OA award (I was third). Was it legit? Hells yes, it was. And the awards ceremony was a hoot - the fact that pretty much everyone brought home a bottle of the award wine (except those who chose to abstain, who got an equally cool alternative) didn't seem to be a problem for anyone. |
| 2013-09-22 7:26 PM in reply to: Goosedog |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Originally posted by Goosedog I'm outraged. Agreed! A complete travesty!! |
| 2013-09-22 7:30 PM in reply to: JZig |
Veteran 360 Waukegan, IL | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? I do mainly Xterras in the midwest...which tend to be small races (usually less than 100). It's pretty standard in these races to give awards to 1st OA and 1st in each age group. A race that goes deeper than that is pretty nice. Most age groups in those races only have a handful of participants, so just 1 deep is fine. |
| 2013-09-22 7:37 PM in reply to: DanielG |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Originally posted by DanielG Start your own set of races. Give out medals as you see fit. No. But I think that boxing has too many weight classes. |
| 2013-09-24 6:59 PM in reply to: JZig |
| Member 142 Union Ky | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? YES ! A RESOUNDING YES. I am a proponent of weight classes. I am 6'3" and 50 years old. I just finished a Duathlon where I beat many much younger , but got beaten by older guys weighing 150 , 180 etc. |
| 2013-09-25 1:07 AM in reply to: Shop Cat |
Expert 1049 Jacksonville, FL | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? I did a HITS race where they gave out first place in each age. If they did it by age group I wouldn't have medaled but since I was the only one my age I was first. I thought it was pretty funny but the medal didn't mean much to me, would rather have been in the top 3 for my ag. |
| 2013-09-25 7:51 AM in reply to: JZig |
Member 231 | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Why do you care? Are you afraid she might get credit for being a "fast" triathlete? Focus on your own race. Don't worry so much about others'. My two cents. Patti A slow triathlete in NJ who occasionally wins her age group and even qualified for Age Group Nationals. Yes, I'm a fraud. Whatever. |
| 2013-09-25 10:00 AM in reply to: pugpenny |
| 58 Downingtown, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? I just did a tri this past weekend and I was laughing to myself about the Clydesdale category winners. I thought the idea was to recognize triathletes who are generally overweight but are out there bustin' it nonetheless. In this race the winner was about 6'7" and not really overweight and the second place winner looked like he could pose for muscle and fitness magazine. Must be a little demoralizing for the "real" Clydesdales to be competing against folks like this. Nothing you can do about other than say "C'mon man" to the guys at packet pick-up and try to get them into age-groups. Not sure if this is a regular occurence since this was the first time I ever stayed for the awards. Was funny though since it was not what I was expecting. |
| 2013-09-25 10:16 AM in reply to: dillrob |
Master 1858 Salt Lake City | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Originally posted by dillrob I just did a tri this past weekend and I was laughing to myself about the Clydesdale category winners. I thought the idea was to recognize triathletes who are generally overweight but are out there bustin' it nonetheless. In this race the winner was about 6'7" and not really overweight and the second place winner looked like he could pose for muscle and fitness magazine. Must be a little demoralizing for the "real" Clydesdales to be competing against folks like this. Nothing you can do about other than say "C'mon man" to the guys at packet pick-up and try to get them into age-groups. Not sure if this is a regular occurence since this was the first time I ever stayed for the awards. Was funny though since it was not what I was expecting. Don't even get me started on clyde and athena categories... |
| 2013-09-25 12:19 PM in reply to: lakelandsledder |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Originally posted by lakelandsledder I would actually like a separate year for each age 35 36 37 38..... I MIGHT actually podium then! I know a race that does that but you have to be first to win. |
| 2013-09-25 12:23 PM in reply to: dillrob |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Originally posted by dillrob I just did a tri this past weekend and I was laughing to myself about the Clydesdale category winners. I thought the idea was to recognize triathletes who are generally overweight but are out there bustin' it nonetheless. In this race the winner was about 6'7" and not really overweight and the second place winner looked like he could pose for muscle and fitness magazine. Must be a little demoralizing for the "real" Clydesdales to be competing against folks like this. Nothing you can do about other than say "C'mon man" to the guys at packet pick-up and try to get them into age-groups. Not sure if this is a regular occurence since this was the first time I ever stayed for the awards. Was funny though since it was not what I was expecting. thats actually what the categories are for, not fat people. |
| 2013-09-25 12:33 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by dillrob I just did a tri this past weekend and I was laughing to myself about the Clydesdale category winners. I thought the idea was to recognize triathletes who are generally overweight but are out there bustin' it nonetheless. In this race the winner was about 6'7" and not really overweight and the second place winner looked like he could pose for muscle and fitness magazine. Must be a little demoralizing for the "real" Clydesdales to be competing against folks like this. Nothing you can do about other than say "C'mon man" to the guys at packet pick-up and try to get them into age-groups. Not sure if this is a regular occurence since this was the first time I ever stayed for the awards. Was funny though since it was not what I was expecting. thats actually what the categories are for, not fat people. x2. In endurance sports, a person with more body mass generally is at a disadvantage compared to someone smaller regardless of body composition, especially in hot conditions. Clyde and Athena categories aren't necessarily meant for people who are less fit. |
| 2013-09-25 12:47 PM in reply to: dillrob |
| Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Originally posted by dillrob I just did a tri this past weekend and I was laughing to myself about the Clydesdale category winners. I thought the idea was to recognize triathletes who are generally overweight but are out there bustin' it nonetheless. In this race the winner was about 6'7" and not really overweight and the second place winner looked like he could pose for muscle and fitness magazine. Must be a little demoralizing for the "real" Clydesdales to be competing against folks like this. Nothing you can do about other than say "C'mon man" to the guys at packet pick-up and try to get them into age-groups. Not sure if this is a regular occurence since this was the first time I ever stayed for the awards. Was funny though since it was not what I was expecting. LOL. What's a "real" Clydesdale? |
| 2013-09-25 1:04 PM in reply to: 0 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Goosedog I'm outraged. Agreed! A complete travesty!! Me too. I need to do something about....
Squirrel!
What was I saying? Edited by Kido 2013-09-25 1:04 PM |
| 2013-09-25 1:12 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? I can honestly say that I've never picked races to enter based on how they hand out awards. Of course dragging myself from a nearly DFL beginner to a MOP veteran over the past ten years, I was never a threat to make a podium anyway. A good day for me was breaking into the top ten in my AG. I collected a few finisher's medals along the way, but my motivation primarily came from my fitness gains, seeing personal performance improvement and just having fun. That being said, this year I aged up to M60-64 and I've managed to get some AG group awards in races that went 5 or 6 deep with medals or ribbons. That includes two 4th place ribbons in sprint tri's and a 4th place medal and a 5th place ribbon in 5K's. Yeah, they were smaller fields and I wasn't a threat to break into the top three. But at least I showed up and finished. I also managed to do personal PR's at all the races where I won something, which in itself gave me a great deal of satisfaction. And I have to admit that getting my name called at an awards ceremony is kind of cool. Mark
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| 2013-09-25 1:17 PM in reply to: JZig |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? No. |
| 2013-09-25 4:15 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| 58 Downingtown, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Really. Clydesdale category is meant for bodybuilders and folks who tip the scales at the required weight due to their height since they have it tougher? I bet those legs help on the bike some. I'm very new to this and may be wrong, but I didn't think this is the case. I'm trying not to be insensitive about this either. I think the category is fine especially if it draws more people into the sport. But if the category is for people with very low bodyfat and high weight due to muscle mass then this does not make sense. Someone like this does not need a special category. In this event the Clydes winner came in 23rd out of 415, 9th on the bike and would have finished 4th in his age group. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but it seems to me that the category is not intended these folks. Just saying. |
| 2013-09-25 4:29 PM in reply to: dillrob |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Originally posted by dillrob Really. Clydesdale category is meant for bodybuilders and folks who tip the scales at the required weight due to their height since they have it tougher? I bet those legs help on the bike some. I'm very new to this and may be wrong, but I didn't think this is the case. I'm trying not to be insensitive about this either. I think the category is fine especially if it draws more people into the sport. But if the category is for people with very low bodyfat and high weight due to muscle mass then this does not make sense. Someone like this does not need a special category. In this event the Clydes winner came in 23rd out of 415, 9th on the bike and would have finished 4th in his age group. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but it seems to me that the category is not intended these folks. Just saying. Ok, lets' try this again... In endurance sports, a person with more body mass generally is at a disadvantage compared to someone smaller regardless of body composition, especially in hot conditions. Clyde and Athena categories aren't necessarily meant for people who are less fit. There's a reason you rarely (if ever?) see someone near 200 lbs on the overall podium. |
| 2013-09-25 11:43 PM in reply to: JZig |
Member 341 Austin | Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? The only time I have taken the gold was at a 10k 2 years ago. I was the only one in my age group. Now if I could just find a really small tri and not be BOP, that would be fun too. |
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