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IMLT shapen up to be a doozy (Page 3)
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  2013-09-23 5:18 AM in reply to: 0 |
 Subject: ...This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred D 2013-09-23 5:18 AM |
| 2013-09-23 5:48 AM in reply to: Fred D |
Master 2094  | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy I wonder what things were like in the medical tent was like? I imagine hypothermia was a real concern. If a large number of people ended up critically ill, I doubt they would do it again. |
| 2013-09-23 6:22 AM in reply to: Fred D |
Regular 5477   LHOTP | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by spudonet1 was a sh-tshow. They had no cover for the bags. Someone had kicked mine over or something and set it back there with the helmet upside down and the bag mostly open. Rained / snowed the day before so all my stuff was caked in ice. Got out on the bike and the first section is mostly downhill to Truckee. So I'm doing about 20 into a big headwind with messed up clothes and got hypothermic quick. I was shaking so bad I couldn't stay on the aero bars.Once I got to the climbs I mashed to warm up, knowing if I didn't, my day was over. Of course that meant my legs were torched on the fist bike loop.The run was what I expected with destroyed legs, except I got frozen again in the last 4 miles. It was all I could do to drag myself in, and I've done other races in the 12s.I disagree with keeping this race as-is. It is dangerous right now, at least this time of year. . Congrats on toughing it out! What would you change to keep it a viable 140.6? AWESOME job guys! Really, the course and conditions just sounded epic all the way around, and I can hardly wait to read your RRs (hope you'll do them!). I hope you all can get some really good recovery and baby yourselves a bit. Well done. Mark, I had been reading posts from Eileen on ST (who was working gear drop off) and she was really worried about people's gear getting wet. I am so sorry this happened to you. I can't imagine doing a bike already cold from the swim and then with wet gear and wind. It makes me cold just thinking about it. I would be very curious to hear what the racers think, if anything, should be done with the race moving forward. |
| 2013-09-23 9:44 AM in reply to: switch |
| Member 13 Reno | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Congrats to everyone who finished this course. I was working at the post-race bag pickup and there was a lot of carnage out there. Busloads of DNFers. Those who finished looked pretty beat up. Being a local, it never occurred to me that people would attempt Brockway without a triple crank and a 28 in the back. I tried it on a 39/52 once and turned around about halfway up. That climb is the real deal. I'm sure they would have liked to have moved this race back into summer a few weeks, but there are a bunch of other regional events that get in the way. Also, the weather isn't usually this bad this early. They picked this time specifically because tourism is slow this time of year...summer is over and winter ski season hasn't started yet. Traffic was also a nightmare. It took my shuttle bus two hours to get from Kings Beack to Squaw, which is usually a 30 minute drive. I'm guessing the locals won't be happy with the road closures. I hope they can continue the event, but they need to make some tweaks. |
| 2013-09-23 9:50 AM in reply to: spudone |
Alpharetta, Georgia Bronze member | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by spudone t1 was a sh-tshow. They had no cover for the bags. Someone had kicked mine over or something and set it back there with the helmet upside down and the bag mostly open. Rained / snowed the day before so all my stuff was caked in ice. Got out on the bike and the first section is mostly downhill to Truckee. So I'm doing about 20 into a big headwind with messed up clothes and got hypothermic quick. I was shaking so bad I couldn't stay on the aero bars.Once I got to the climbs I mashed to warm up, knowing if I didn't, my day was over. Of course that meant my legs were torched on the fist bike loop.The run was what I expected with destroyed legs, except I got frozen again in the last 4 miles. It was all I could do to drag myself in, and I've done other races in the 12s.I disagree with keeping this race as-is. It is dangerous right now, at least this time of year. This sounds horrific. |
| 2013-09-23 10:46 AM in reply to: Fred D |
Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by Fred D The cold is the biggest danger. T1 needed much larger changing tents since everyone was doing a full change. If you were mop as I was, it was ridiculous. Of my 20 min t1, I spent about 8 mins changing and 12 waiting for room or fighting through the mosh pit. And covered t1 bags as I said before.Originally posted by spudonet1 was a sh-tshow. They had no cover for the bags. Someone had kicked mine over or something and set it back there with the helmet upside down and the bag mostly open. Rained / snowed the day before so all my stuff was caked in ice. Got out on the bike and the first section is mostly downhill to Truckee. So I'm doing about 20 into a big headwind with messed up clothes and got hypothermic quick. I was shaking so bad I couldn't stay on the aero bars.Once I got to the climbs I mashed to warm up, knowing if I didn't, my day was over. Of course that meant my legs were torched on the fist bike loop.The run was what I expected with destroyed legs, except I got frozen again in the last 4 miles. It was all I could do to drag myself in, and I've done other races in the 12s.I disagree with keeping this race as-is. It is dangerous right now, at least this time of year. . Congrats on toughing it out! What would you change to keep it a viable 140.6?The run trail was OK but after dark it was super cold again and support seemed spotty. They need personnel out there and more lights. People death marching and collapsing from the cold and you'd never see them. It was pitch black. I still think a course change will happen for the bike too, not sure what though. |
| 2013-09-23 2:37 PM in reply to: spudone |
| Seattle | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by spudone t1 was a sh-tshow. They had no cover for the bags. Someone had kicked mine over or something and set it back there with the helmet upside down and the bag mostly open. Rained / snowed the day before so all my stuff was caked in ice. Got out on the bike and the first section is mostly downhill to Truckee. So I'm doing about 20 into a big headwind with messed up clothes and got hypothermic quick. I was shaking so bad I couldn't stay on the aero bars.Once I got to the climbs I mashed to warm up, knowing if I didn't, my day was over. Of course that meant my legs were torched on the fist bike loop.The run was what I expected with destroyed legs, except I got frozen again in the last 4 miles. It was all I could do to drag myself in, and I've done other races in the 12s.I disagree with keeping this race as-is. It is dangerous right now, at least this time of year. Ick. Sorry to hear that! How awful. Waita' tough it out! |
| 2013-09-23 4:56 PM in reply to: Fred D |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by wannabefaster . I am sorry that it wasn't a good experience for you. Jason I tracked you all day and think you did fantastic! Curiosity? What gearing did you use? Originally posted by bcagle25 They are going to have to "dumb it down" a little if they want it to be viable long term. After a year or two of massive DNFs, people will stop signing up and this race will go the way of St George. It is just too hard in its current form. Yes, I know that there are hard-core folks who will whine if they make it easier, but it isn't a good business model to send your customers away dissatisfied. And believe me, there are 100s of disappointed folks tonight. It just won't work if only 400 or so of the hardest of hard-core are signing up. I am typically a top 5-10% finisher which is what I did today but I am way more wrecked than I am after a typical IM. I had already promised my wife to take a year off from full IM racing, but if I hadn't, I still wouldn't be signing up to do this race again any time soon. An "easy" IM is hard enough for me, thanks. Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Fact. Although it may have been from the bike or swim? Lots of people still left on course according to the tracker, and reports that athletes were coming back to T2 in bus loads means the high chance of a very high DNF rate. No matter how hard the course it is crazy to see how slow the bike/finish times are. Just over 600 first time IM'ers means this was probably a more veteran WTC race...whatever that means. I think WTC has something great here in Tahoe with a race that can shape up to be truly epic year after year, I really hope they don't dumb this course down. I would love to have a stab at this race if I am medically cleared to ever race an IM again. Originally posted by tb1000 I saw on twitter there is a 32% DNF rate at IMLT There's still nearly three hours left to go in the race from when you posted this. I'm sorry if that came off badly. It was a spectacular experience. Having 18 or so hours to let it all settle, I would do this race again, even in its current iteration. It was very challenging but also very sweet to have conquered (survived?) the course. You just need to know what you are getting in to and train like mad for this one. Not that you don't have to train like mad for every IM..... I put a compact crank on my bike about six weeks ago (50-34) and used an 11-28 cassette. I needed all of those gears but I was able to do most of the climbs without ever exceeding threshold. I spent a lot of time at 85-95% of FTP but had no choice if I wanted to get up the hills. I considered putting on an 11-30 or 11-32 cassette but that would have required changing around the rear dérailleur so I decided against it. |
| 2013-09-23 5:25 PM in reply to: wannabefaster |
| Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy The tent at T1was crazy. I have never been in such close proximity to so many naked men. 500 naked guys in maybe 1500 sq ft made for an interesting time. A dry off and clothing change that should have taken six minutes tops was 14 minutes for me and I was one of the faster ones. Twice the size would probably still be kind of tight. I think all of the volunteers left the tent just to make more room. Like I said, crazy. I double bagged my stuff at T1and duct taped the top of the bag closed. It was pouring all day on Saturday so that seemed like a sensible precaution even if it migh cost a minute. I agree that a covered area would be ideal but it might not be logistically possible. The bike course was interesting. I expected the Ritz climb and the Brockway climb but there was a lot more climbing than just those two (four) climbs. I bet there was another 600-800 feet of climbing just in the two trips through Truckee. Some of those climbs in Truckee were really, really steep. It seems like in an already very hard course, they could find a way to add in the correct additional mileage without adding in another two very steep climbs. The run had a lot of elevation change as well. I don't mind this but the athlete guide described it as a fairly flat run. Well, it wasn't that for sure. Nothing like the bike but some pretty steep climbs on some already trashed legs. There is only one (two because you do it twice) climb on the run that could be fairly easily eliminated. Everything else is just the topography you have to deal with. I was done before dark but I wonder if IM couldn't invest in several hundred (thousand) of those little solar path lights and put them along run courses like this one to help illuminate the way. Might add just a little bit of cheer to those long miles and it wouldn't be that hard to do. Just a thought. If you made a couple of the fairly easy changes above it would still be an extremely hard course but it might take just enough of the 'bite' out of it to make it slightly more doable. Call it dumbing down the course if you like but I guarantee you that even with those changes, no one would be coming away from this and saying it was easy. |
| 2013-09-23 5:31 PM in reply to: wannabefaster |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Heh after I finally got changed in T1, on my way to the bike I saw like 6 portapotties empty. I could've just changed in one of those and saved a bunch of time. |
| 2013-09-23 5:47 PM in reply to: wannabefaster |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by wannabefasterThe tent at T1was crazy. I have never been in such close proximity to so many naked men. 500 naked guys in maybe 1500 sq ft made for an interesting time. A dry off and clothing change that should have taken six minutes tops was 14 minutes for me and I was one of the faster ones. Twice the size would probably still be kind of tight. I think all of the volunteers left the tent just to make more room. Like I said, crazy. I double bagged my stuff at T1and duct taped the top of the bag closed. It was pouring all day on Saturday so that seemed like a sensible precaution even if it migh cost a minute. I agree that a covered area would be ideal but it might not be logistically possible. The bike course was interesting. I expected the Ritz climb and the Brockway climb but there was a lot more climbing than just those two (four) climbs. I bet there was another 600-800 feet of climbing just in the two trips through Truckee. Some of those climbs in Truckee were really, really steep. It seems like in an already very hard course, they could find a way to add in the correct additional mileage without adding in another two very steep climbs. The run had a lot of elevation change as well. I don't mind this but the athlete guide described it as a fairly flat run. Well, it wasn't that for sure. Nothing like the bike but some pretty steep climbs on some already trashed legs. There is only one (two because you do it twice) climb on the run that could be fairly easily eliminated. Everything else is just the topography you have to deal with. I was done before dark but I wonder if IM couldn't invest in several hundred (thousand) of those little solar path lights and put them along run courses like this one to help illuminate the way. Might add just a little bit of cheer to those long miles and it wouldn't be that hard to do. Just a thought. If you made a couple of the fairly easy changes above it would still be an extremely hard course but it might take just enough of the 'bite' out of it to make it slightly more doable. Call it dumbing down the course if you like but I guarantee you that even with those changes, no one would be coming away from this and saying it was easy. Thanks for the good info. It will be very interesting to see what changes, if any, they make for next year. I'm guessing if they leave it the same, the extreme challenge and weather unpredictability will end up being both a draw and a badge of honor. |
| 2013-09-23 5:53 PM in reply to: wannabefaster |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-09-23 6:02 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Elite 4435 | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy |
| 2013-09-23 6:22 PM in reply to: jobaxas |
| Veteran 361 Colorful Colorado | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy This thread has gotten me so excited that I just signed up for 2014... |
| 2013-09-23 6:52 PM in reply to: rockymtnhigh |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by rockymtnhighThis thread has gotten me so excited that I just signed up for 2014... Sicko! Love it . Looks like you have the perfect training base camp! |
| 2013-09-23 7:00 PM in reply to: switch |
| Veteran 361 Colorful Colorado | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by switch Originally posted by rockymtnhighThis thread has gotten me so excited that I just signed up for 2014... Sicko! Love it. Looks like you have the perfect training base camp! Well, except for the fact that the recent floods took out every road into the mtns except one... |
| 2013-09-23 7:50 PM in reply to: rockymtnhigh |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by rockymtnhigh Yeah, but that's a "500 year flood" so you're good! (sarc font)Originally posted by switch Well, except for the fact that the recent floods took out every road into the mtns except one...Originally posted by rockymtnhighThis thread has gotten me so excited that I just signed up for 2014... Sicko! Love it. Looks like you have the perfect training base camp! |
| 2013-09-23 7:54 PM in reply to: rockymtnhigh |
| Elite 5316 Alturas, California | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Hey gang thanks for the support. So the logistics of the race sucked, very disorganized for an IM IM. The changing tent at T1 was about 1/4 of the size needed and had no lighting (yes nearly pitch dark in changing tent), drop bag locations in T1 required walking probably 1 mile (bike special needs, run special needs, bike transition, morning clothes bag) and ya they left the bike bags uncovered in the rain and freezing temps. Folks who didn't cover up their bike seats had frost on them (air temp 28F). So ya my previous IM's at Vineman and CDA were 12:30 or faster with my most recent IM 11:40, but with IMLT 14:58. The hills were just evil, I actually injured some muscles or whatever on the top of my right knee, left knee was iffy and both calves were iffy on the climbs on lap one of the bike and I was thinking I might be a DNF by mile 40 on the bike. I managed the complete the bike (many walking their bike up the hills on lap 2), but those climbs of more than 10% grade were just brutal, it wasn't the number or the length (12 ish miles of steep hills (with some drops to then need to regain) it was the steepness of the climbs. I completely limped in the last 12 miles of the bike berly able to pedal with the right knee and left aching as well. This completely trashed my run which is always my strength. My last Vineman run split was 3:40:00 IMLT 5:08:00 ish. Just couldn't even sustain a jog with the legs physically injured by the hills. Got er done to get my finisher's medal, but if you are not practicing on hills that are 10-12% I wouldn't recommend this race. There was a 35% DNF rate for the race (933 people DNF'D). This was definitely a different race for me I am not that strong of a cyclist (17-18 mph IMs on the bike). I didn't mention that I camped in a tent for the weekend.... brrr. Anyway thanks again for the support glad our BTers did everyone proud by finishing come hell or cold water. |
| 2013-09-23 8:03 PM in reply to: rockymtnhigh |
| Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by rockymtnhigh This thread has gotten me so excited that I just signed up for 2014... Awesome! |
| 2013-09-23 9:01 PM in reply to: wannabefaster |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Btw another BTer - mango6383, did a 12:09. She's awesome. |
| 2013-09-24 6:13 AM in reply to: Fred D |
| Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by Fred D I think it sounds great too. I overheat quickly in hot conditions and tend to race very well when it's too cold for many other racers. The one thing that pretty much makes this race a deal breaker is the elevation. Living and training at only a couple hundred feet above sea level, I'd want to do a one week training trip at elevation to see how my body responds before making a final decision to register. Otherwise, it looks fantastic to me as is.Originally posted by wannabefaster The tent at T1was crazy. I have never been in such close proximity to so many naked men. 500 naked guys in maybe 1500 sq ft made for an interesting time. A dry off and clothing change that should have taken six minutes tops was 14 minutes for me and I was one of the faster ones. Twice the size would probably still be kind of tight. I think all of the volunteers left the tent just to make more room. Like I said, crazy. I double bagged my stuff at T1and duct taped the top of the bag closed. It was pouring all day on Saturday so that seemed like a sensible precaution even if it migh cost a minute. I agree that a covered area would be ideal but it might not be logistically possible. The bike course was interesting. I expected the Ritz climb and the Brockway climb but there was a lot more climbing than just those two (four) climbs. I bet there was another 600-800 feet of climbing just in the two trips through Truckee. Some of those climbs in Truckee were really, really steep. It seems like in an already very hard course, they could find a way to add in the correct additional mileage without adding in another two very steep climbs. The run had a lot of elevation change as well. I don't mind this but the athlete guide described it as a fairly flat run. Well, it wasn't that for sure. Nothing like the bike but some pretty steep climbs on some already trashed legs. There is only one (two because you do it twice) climb on the run that could be fairly easily eliminated. Everything else is just the topography you have to deal with. I was done before dark but I wonder if IM couldn't invest in several hundred (thousand) of those little solar path lights and put them along run courses like this one to help illuminate the way. Might add just a little bit of cheer to those long miles and it wouldn't be that hard to do. Just a thought. If you made a couple of the fairly easy changes above it would still be an extremely hard course but it might take just enough of the 'bite' out of it to make it slightly more doable. Call it dumbing down the course if you like but I guarantee you that even with those changes, no one would be coming away from this and saying it was easy.
Good thoughts! This course would actually favor me on a few levels. The climbing would be great for my current watts/Kg (est) ratio and I am used to riding and running in the cold. I agree the Sh-storm occurred with the T1 situation etc, but that relates to the time of year at altitude I guess. Still impressed with your overall time though! lastly I don't think I will ever do another September IM (Or Oct, Nov, Dec) as it just drags the in-season out too long for me. Also it's when my kids are in school and too disruptive to family life. IMLT sounds very Bad azz though, especially alluring to a strong cyclist. |
| 2013-09-24 7:29 AM in reply to: TriMyBest |
| Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Don, I live and train in Michigan. I did precisely zero training at altitude. I was nervous about what was going to happen so I did the Boulder 70.3 about seven weeks out as a trial run for racing at altitude. It went well so I didn't change much about my race plan. The other thing that I have heard people talk about is training to climb hills. Well, I don't have much in the way of hills around me ( and I do a lot of work on the trainer). What I did was a lot of work at 90% of my threshold, especially 20 minute intervals. It turns out that is almost exactly what I needed to climb the major summits, 20 minutes at 90% threshold. My ability to climb the hills in spite of my lack of hill training really drove home the "watt is a watt" statement that people have made in the past. All in all, a very rewarding race to have done |
| 2013-09-24 7:51 AM in reply to: wannabefaster |
| Pro 4675 Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Based on what I've heard, this race just moved higher UP on my "to do" list. |
| 2013-09-24 9:22 AM in reply to: Baowolf |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by BaowolfHey gang thanks for the support. So the logistics of the race sucked, very disorganized for an IM IM. The changing tent at T1 was about 1/4 of the size needed and had no lighting (yes nearly pitch dark in changing tent), drop bag locations in T1 required walking probably 1 mile (bike special needs, run special needs, bike transition, morning clothes bag) and ya they left the bike bags uncovered in the rain and freezing temps. Folks who didn't cover up their bike seats had frost on them (air temp 28F). So ya my previous IM's at Vineman and CDA were 12:30 or faster with my most recent IM 11:40, but with IMLT 14:58. The hills were just evil, I actually injured some muscles or whatever on the top of my right knee, left knee was iffy and both calves were iffy on the climbs on lap one of the bike and I was thinking I might be a DNF by mile 40 on the bike. I managed the complete the bike (many walking their bike up the hills on lap 2), but those climbs of more than 10% grade were just brutal, it wasn't the number or the length (12 ish miles of steep hills (with some drops to then need to regain) it was the steepness of the climbs. I completely limped in the last 12 miles of the bike berly able to pedal with the right knee and left aching as well. This completely trashed my run which is always my strength. My last Vineman run split was 3:40:00 IMLT 5:08:00 ish. Just couldn't even sustain a jog with the legs physically injured by the hills. Got er done to get my finisher's medal, but if you are not practicing on hills that are 10-12% I wouldn't recommend this race. There was a 35% DNF rate for the race (933 people DNF'D). This was definitely a different race for me I am not that strong of a cyclist (17-18 mph IMs on the bike). I didn't mention that I camped in a tent for the weekend.... brrr. Anyway thanks again for the support glad our BTers did everyone proud by finishing come hell or cold water. Awesome job I love that you camped all weekend--very cool. I hope your injury heals soon and that general race recovery is well on the way. This race is a huge accomplishment! |
| 2013-09-24 9:25 AM in reply to: spudone |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: IMLT shapen up to be a doozy Originally posted by spudone Oh damn!!! I'm so sorry I missed her in the stalking! That is an awesome time on a hella hard course. Nice job sista :)Btw another BTer - mango6383, did a 12:09. She's awesome. |
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