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2015-01-02 11:07 AM

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Subject: College Football Playoffs

I've come to two conclusions about the CFP system.  Normally the championship game is the only "bowl game" that matters and the rest were a bunch of meh.  The CFB playoffs gives us two more meaningful games.  I had so much fun last night watching both semi-finals.

The other part I've concluded is that the BCS was even more flawed than I thought.  If this were a BCS year then it would have been Bama and FSU in the title game and neither OSU or the Ducks would have been given the opportunity.  In the light of the two games yesterday, this just makes me cringe at how many other teams have potentially been slighted due to the popularity contest nature of the BCS system and bias towards the SEC.
The SEC has such a bias (much of which is well deserved) that historically a one loss SEC team would always be ranked above all other non SEC one loss teams, so the BCS had morphed into an SEC champ vs. whomever else.  2005 was the last time a non SEC team was in the title game.

I know there's still the Baylor/TCU "controversy", but I'm very happy with the CFP system and it's ability to snuff out an overrated conferences or potential undefeated teams that play in weak conferences.

What do you guys think?



2015-01-02 11:14 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

I would be unsurprised if the format is expanded to include 4 more teams in the next few years. That clears up any Baylor/TCU controversy and increases the number of "meaningful" games. It also expands income, which I believe the NCAA is in favor of. As to the added wear and tear on players, I'm not sure where that stands on the list of things that matter to the NCAA.

This was a good day of football indeed and a sure indication of some of the flaws that were previously out there. 

2015-01-02 3:14 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

Definitely better than the BCS game, and the past few days has been crazy for the SEC West.  I still have friends in serious denial, but I've reached acceptance.  We had artificial ratings propped up by the media all year long, and as soon as we played tough out of conference teams, we fell flat on our faces.

2015-01-02 6:34 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

That's a great point about how wrong the BCS would have been this year. I hate the Ducks, but am grudgingly rooting for them for the sake of Pac 12 respect and recruiting. I think they'll beat Ohio State.

Everything I've heard is that they have no intention of moving away from the 12-year contract in place with the 4 team format and I'm OK with that. 

2015-01-03 7:56 AM
in reply to: zed707

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs
I have no problem with 4 teams and hope they don't expand. I would like to see the added requirement that you have to be a conference champion to make the playoffs. That automatically makes the championship games the first round of the playoffs. Yes I understand that there are more than 4 major conferences and this leaves one out. Ultimately I think college football likes to leave someone out. That gets as much talk as anything else, all publicity is good publicity in this case. This also forces ND's hand, I grew up a ND fan but it is time for them to join a conference, no special carve outs for them.
2015-01-03 10:02 AM
in reply to: Its Only Money

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs
Definitely better than the BCS, that was just a controversy from beginning to end. I also agree on the comment about needing to be a conference champion, if your not the best in your conference how can you win the national championship? I think that would force several steps, 1st the big 12 would have to have a title game, which could of potentially pushed Baylor or TCU into the play off's this year. Also as stated Notre Dame would have to join a conference, they are no longer the powerhouse they used to be that enabled them to stand alone. But I also understand that the money NBC sends them for the TV contract is hard to lose. So they can make a choice, join a conference and have the opportunity for a title or keep the money and not have the title. At some point though whether it is 4, 8 or 12 teams someone is going to be left out and create controversy, but that is the fun of college football.

and Go Buckeyes!


2015-01-03 1:08 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs
Not a big fan of expanding beyond 4 teams, but also have a problem with one of the major conference champs being left out. No matter how much they expand the first and second team out will complain.

GO BUCKS!! Not many gave you a chance after losing to Va. Tech but you kept going and now are playing some pretty damn good football. Hope the NC is a great game.
2015-01-05 11:20 AM
in reply to: jacasa

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

Did anyone see the Houston Pitt game? I didn't either but saw the highlights. To comeback from 31-6 with 10 minutes left and win is amazing!

2015-01-06 2:26 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

I like how the current playoff system worked out.  Being that the BCS championship game typically wasn't held till about 8-10 days after New Years anyway...I like how you had very meaningful games on New Years day, and still have the championship later.  I didn't care for how in previous years, the games on New Years Day did not mean much.  There is something about bringing in the New Year with meaningful football.

That said, I don't think too much about how the previous BCS system would have got it "wrong" with Bama and FSU likely being 1 and 2.  If that were the championship game this year...so be it.  The fact that Oregon and Ohio St won their semi-final games doesn't mean that the previous system was wrong.  It's just one game.  On any given Saturday, Sunday...or in this case Thursday...any team can win or lose.  Just ask Oregon in how they lost to Arizona.  Or how Bama lost to Ole Miss.  Or how Ohio St. lost to Virgina Tech.  The better team does not always win.  It's just the nature of the beast in a one game, winner take all playoff format.

After some thought, I think a 6 team playoff would work better than a 8 team playoff.  I don't ever remember in the last 20 years...the #7 team having a legitimate gripe to being the #1 or #2 team in the country.  This year, it was rare that the #5 and #6 team had a decent argument.  So reward the #1 and #2 team with a bye.  It would also avoid teams thinking they have a safety net if they lose the last game of the season.  This year, if any of the top 3 lost their last game of the season, they would be out of the playoffs.  In a 8 team format, it's likely that Alabama, Oregon and FSU could have lost their last game and still gotten in.

Have 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 around December 20th.  Semis on New Years Day.  Then the final as usual.  An 8 team playoff sounds all well and good this year, but there will be years that there are TWO CLEAR teams above everyone else, and even Vegas will tell you that the odds of those two teams winning 2 games to make it to the finals are pretty slim.

2015-01-07 8:58 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs
I like the playoff format as well, but I also think it needs to be expanded. For one thing, it's made every other bowl game even more irrelevant than under the BCS. In the past, as dumb as the BCS system was, you could sometimes have a team come out of nowhere with a huge game against a heavily-favored team in a bowl game and significantly improve their rating. Now, unless you're playing in the two semi-final games, you're basically just filler. I would think that the sponsors of the other bowls would complain that they weren't relevant anymore, especially if the viewership numbers bear that out.
2015-01-07 9:35 AM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

With the amount of money to made I don't see how they can resist expanding it.  My guess is in the end they'll expand the season to maybe 16 games.  Then they'll have probably 12 teams make the playoffs - a couple of wildcards, and maybe the top ranked teams get a bye in the first round?  The whole rotating which bowl hosts the playoffs and championship will probably get controversial so they'll probably just replace it with one final big bowl game.  Probably call it the Giganto-Bowl or something.



2015-01-07 6:24 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

Originally posted by Jason N

I like how the current playoff system worked out.  Being that the BCS championship game typically wasn't held till about 8-10 days after New Years anyway...I like how you had very meaningful games on New Years day, and still have the championship later.  I didn't care for how in previous years, the games on New Years Day did not mean much.  There is something about bringing in the New Year with meaningful football.

That said, I don't think too much about how the previous BCS system would have got it "wrong" with Bama and FSU likely being 1 and 2.  If that were the championship game this year...so be it.  The fact that Oregon and Ohio St won their semi-final games doesn't mean that the previous system was wrong.  It's just one game.  On any given Saturday, Sunday...or in this case Thursday...any team can win or lose.  Just ask Oregon in how they lost to Arizona.  Or how Bama lost to Ole Miss.  Or how Ohio St. lost to Virgina Tech.  The better team does not always win.  It's just the nature of the beast in a one game, winner take all playoff format.

After some thought, I think a 6 team playoff would work better than a 8 team playoff.  I don't ever remember in the last 20 years...the #7 team having a legitimate gripe to being the #1 or #2 team in the country.  This year, it was rare that the #5 and #6 team had a decent argument.  So reward the #1 and #2 team with a bye.  It would also avoid teams thinking they have a safety net if they lose the last game of the season.  This year, if any of the top 3 lost their last game of the season, they would be out of the playoffs.  In a 8 team format, it's likely that Alabama, Oregon and FSU could have lost their last game and still gotten in.

Have 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 around December 20th.  Semis on New Years Day.  Then the final as usual.  An 8 team playoff sounds all well and good this year, but there will be years that there are TWO CLEAR teams above everyone else, and even Vegas will tell you that the odds of those two teams winning 2 games to make it to the finals are pretty slim.

I'm ok with the 4 team format - it is a VAST improvement over the old BCS.  But I pretty much agree with what you're saying.  I think there are quite a few years where there are more 1-win teams than the 4 team format will cover.   I'd be ok with 6 or 8 if they moved to it someday.

 

2015-01-08 11:41 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Jason N

I like how the current playoff system worked out.  Being that the BCS championship game typically wasn't held till about 8-10 days after New Years anyway...I like how you had very meaningful games on New Years day, and still have the championship later.  I didn't care for how in previous years, the games on New Years Day did not mean much.  There is something about bringing in the New Year with meaningful football.

That said, I don't think too much about how the previous BCS system would have got it "wrong" with Bama and FSU likely being 1 and 2.  If that were the championship game this year...so be it.  The fact that Oregon and Ohio St won their semi-final games doesn't mean that the previous system was wrong.  It's just one game.  On any given Saturday, Sunday...or in this case Thursday...any team can win or lose.  Just ask Oregon in how they lost to Arizona.  Or how Bama lost to Ole Miss.  Or how Ohio St. lost to Virgina Tech.  The better team does not always win.  It's just the nature of the beast in a one game, winner take all playoff format.

After some thought, I think a 6 team playoff would work better than a 8 team playoff.  I don't ever remember in the last 20 years...the #7 team having a legitimate gripe to being the #1 or #2 team in the country.  This year, it was rare that the #5 and #6 team had a decent argument.  So reward the #1 and #2 team with a bye.  It would also avoid teams thinking they have a safety net if they lose the last game of the season.  This year, if any of the top 3 lost their last game of the season, they would be out of the playoffs.  In a 8 team format, it's likely that Alabama, Oregon and FSU could have lost their last game and still gotten in.

Have 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 around December 20th.  Semis on New Years Day.  Then the final as usual.  An 8 team playoff sounds all well and good this year, but there will be years that there are TWO CLEAR teams above everyone else, and even Vegas will tell you that the odds of those two teams winning 2 games to make it to the finals are pretty slim.

I'm ok with the 4 team format - it is a VAST improvement over the old BCS.  But I pretty much agree with what you're saying.  I think there are quite a few years where there are more 1-win teams than the 4 team format will cover.   I'd be ok with 6 or 8 if they moved to it someday.

 

I'd be ok with adding more playoff teams as well.  As you guys have mentioned, when there's money involved there's a good chance most schools and the NCAA would be just fine with adding more teams and there would really only be one extra game for 4 teams (the winners of the first round) in that scenario.  Even academically this extra game would still be during the Holiday break so I don't think there'd be any huge burden from the classroom standpoint on the kids.

Due to the nature of the "popularity contest" that still exists within the rankings I don't feel giving 1 and 2 a bye week is very practical because we'd still be seeing the SEC team only have to play one game to get into the NC game every year because they're be "hardest conference" (wink wink).  I feel if you get the top 8 from the rankings, there will be little doubt that the best 3 or 4 teams would be in the pool with a high degree of confidence and have to prove themselves twice to get into the NC game.

One interesting thing that's somewhat related to the CFP.  I wonder how this will all effect the financials of the FCS schools from a trickle down standpoint.  Every power 5 school schedules a bunch of cupcake games now for "tune ups" or what I like to call "record padding" in the BCS era where being undefeated or 1 loss was the only way to get in.  What better way then to play FCS schools.
Now, with strength of schedule playing a much bigger factor I could see teams trying to schedule weaker power 5 schools over FCS schools in the future.  These FCS paydays will be sorely missed.

2015-01-08 12:01 PM
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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs
I saw yesterday where, due to a technicality in the NCAA rules, Ohio State is allowed unlimited practice time between now and the final and Oregon is limited to no more than 20 hours/week, with any workout, film session or other game-related activity counting towards the 20 hours.

It has to do with the school schedules. Since Oregon's winter break has ended, so they have to limit their practice time so it doesn't cut into the players' schoolwork (pause for laughter...). Ohio State's semester doesn't begin until next Monday, so they're still on break and can practice as much as they want to.

If Ohio State wins, I wonder whether this will come up. I also wonder if, as a result, if you'll see some of the major football schools shifting their academic calendar to start the semester later in the year to avoid this issue in the future, especially if the playoffs are expanded.

"The University of Alabama has annouced that, effective 2015, their winter vacation will run from Thanksgiving through February 1."

Edited by jmk-brooklyn 2015-01-08 12:02 PM
2015-01-08 1:01 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs
8 Teams will happen. The 12 year deal would only keep them from dissolving it completely. Going to 8 teams would be easy.

5 Power Conference Champions
3 At-Large

This is easy to setup. 4 of the P5 Conferences already have a Championship. The Big 12(10) still struggles with the meaning of "One True Champion" and they will have to either figure that out, add 2 teams so they can have a championship game or request permission to play a championship with only 10 teams.

The 3 at-large spots are up for grabs and could be used by P5 teams that fell short, non-p5 that had an incredible run, Notre Dame(because you know they will want an exception). The BCS had rules in place on how to select those non BCS schools, I would think that you could still use that same selection criteria.

If you had set it up this year using the P5 Conference Championship Games along with 3 at-large from the next 3 in the rankings that did not win their Conf Champ game it would have looked like this.


(1) Alabama - (SEC Champ)
(8) Michigan St (BIG At-Large)

(4) Ohio St (BIG Champ)
(5) Baylor (Big 12 "One (Two) True Champion")



(3) Florida St (ACC Champion)
(6) TCU (Big 12 "One (Two) True Champion")

(2) Oregon (Pac 12 Champion)
(7) Miss St. (SEC At-Large)

That would be a ton of fun to watch and think about how much more entertaining those Conference Championship games become. In this scenario each Conference Championship is now essentially a part of the playoff system. While I realize the biggest challenge here is scheduling around finals and the holidays. You could play the first round the weekend prior to Christmas which this year would have given the teams roughly 10 days to prepare for the next game. Finals are typically over by the 2nd week of December so no reason this could not be worked out.
2015-01-08 1:10 PM
in reply to: Batlou

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

Originally posted by Batlou 8 Teams will happen. The 12 year deal would only keep them from dissolving it completely. Going to 8 teams would be easy. 5 Power Conference Champions 3 At-Large This is easy to setup. 4 of the P5 Conferences already have a Championship. The Big 12(10) still struggles with the meaning of "One True Champion" and they will have to either figure that out, add 2 teams so they can have a championship game or request permission to play a championship with only 10 teams. The 3 at-large spots are up for grabs and could be used by P5 teams that fell short, non-p5 that had an incredible run, Notre Dame(because you know they will want an exception). The BCS had rules in place on how to select those non BCS schools, I would think that you could still use that same selection criteria. If you had set it up this year using the P5 Conference Championship Games along with 3 at-large from the next 3 in the rankings that did not win their Conf Champ game it would have looked like this. (1) Alabama - (SEC Champ) (8) Michigan St (BIG At-Large) (4) Ohio St (BIG Champ) (5) Baylor (Big 12 "One (Two) True Champion") (3) Florida St (ACC Champion) (6) TCU (Big 12 "One (Two) True Champion") (2) Oregon (Pac 12 Champion) (7) Miss St. (SEC At-Large) That would be a ton of fun to watch and think about how much more entertaining those Conference Championship games become. In this scenario each Conference Championship is now essentially a part of the playoff system. While I realize the biggest challenge here is scheduling around finals and the holidays. You could play the first round the weekend prior to Christmas which this year would have given the teams roughly 10 days to prepare for the next game. Finals are typically over by the 2nd week of December so no reason this could not be worked out.

I approve of this format.  



2015-01-08 6:28 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

I saw yesterday where, due to a technicality in the NCAA rules, Ohio State is allowed unlimited practice time between now and the final and Oregon is limited to no more than 20 hours/week, with any workout, film session or other game-related activity counting towards the 20 hours.

It has to do with the school schedules. Since Oregon's winter break has ended, so they have to limit their practice time so it doesn't cut into the players' schoolwork (pause for laughter...). Ohio State's semester doesn't begin until next Monday, so they're still on break and can practice as much as they want to.

If Ohio State wins, I wonder whether this will come up. I also wonder if, as a result, if you'll see some of the major football schools shifting their academic calendar to start the semester later in the year to avoid this issue in the future, especially if the playoffs are expanded.

"The University of Alabama has annouced that, effective 2015, their winter vacation will run from Thanksgiving through February 1."


This of course has made the news here in C-bus. Obviously not a fair rule, but I wonder how much of an affect it will have. One of the days this week is a travel day. They should change the rule to allow both teams the same amount of practice time, but don't change the academic calendar to benefit sports (no matter how much $$$ is involved).
2015-01-09 7:08 AM
in reply to: jacasa

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

Originally posted by jacasa
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn I saw yesterday where, due to a technicality in the NCAA rules, Ohio State is allowed unlimited practice time between now and the final and Oregon is limited to no more than 20 hours/week, with any workout, film session or other game-related activity counting towards the 20 hours. It has to do with the school schedules. Since Oregon's winter break has ended, so they have to limit their practice time so it doesn't cut into the players' schoolwork (pause for laughter...). Ohio State's semester doesn't begin until next Monday, so they're still on break and can practice as much as they want to. If Ohio State wins, I wonder whether this will come up. I also wonder if, as a result, if you'll see some of the major football schools shifting their academic calendar to start the semester later in the year to avoid this issue in the future, especially if the playoffs are expanded. "The University of Alabama has annouced that, effective 2015, their winter vacation will run from Thanksgiving through February 1."
This of course has made the news here in C-bus. Obviously not a fair rule, but I wonder how much of an affect it will have. One of the days this week is a travel day. They should change the rule to allow both teams the same amount of practice time, but don't change the academic calendar to benefit sports (no matter how much $$$ is involved).

I think the easier route would be to just make a NCAA exception for the playoff weeks.  I totally get the rule during the normal academic year, but it obviously needs to be addressed for the playoffs. 

2015-01-09 1:44 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

The only thing I do not like about the playoff format is the amount of time to get to the National Championship game. During the New Year holiday, it was great watching all the games, but I think some of the excitement has been lost for me having to wait until Monday for the National Championship!

 

It used to be that we would roll right from the bowl season and into the NFL Playoffs

2015-01-09 3:28 PM
in reply to: jford2309

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs
Originally posted by jford2309

The only thing I do not like about the playoff format is the amount of time to get to the National Championship game. During the New Year holiday, it was great watching all the games, but I think some of the excitement has been lost for me having to wait until Monday for the National Championship!

 

It used to be that we would roll right from the bowl season and into the NFL Playoffs




Agree. I know there are lots of people who prefer the college game to the NFL, but for me, once the NFL playoffs are in full swing, I tend to lose interest in the NCAA. In general, once New Years Day is over, I'm sort of done with College Football.

2015-01-10 12:08 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

There are so many bowl games already, I think it would be simplest just to make it a bracket of 64 kicking off on New Years.   Then, take a week off before the championship game which would be played in mid-February, a week before the Super Bowl.  A few week's later, we could all kick back and watch the bracket of 64 again in men's basketball.  That would be my ideal.

Also, the player's should have the option of taking extension classes instead of being required to take regular classes, and they should get contracts, too.  These are essentially semi-pro franchises owned by the universities.  Why not?



2015-01-10 12:08 AM
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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs

duplicate post...



Edited by SevenZulu 2015-01-10 12:08 AM
2015-01-10 10:21 PM
in reply to: SevenZulu

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Subject: RE: College Football Playoffs
Originally posted by SevenZulu

There are so many bowl games already, I think it would be simplest just to make it a bracket of 64 kicking off on New Years.   Then, take a week off before the championship game which would be played in mid-February, a week before the Super Bowl.  A few week's later, we could all kick back and watch the bracket of 64 again in men's basketball.  That would be my ideal.

Also, the player's should have the option of taking extension classes instead of being required to take regular classes, and they should get contracts, too.  These are essentially semi-pro franchises owned by the universities.  Why not?




64 Teams would be difficult. Keep in mind that in basketball there are 2 games to be played each weekend to advance. Not that easy to do that for football. That does not consider that no team outside of the top 8-10 teams has any sort of argument to make a playoff.
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