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2015-08-13 2:36 PM
in reply to: Ridgelake

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Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?
Originally posted by Ridgelake

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by 3mar Monday so I'll get my 50 and 100 meter times, however they are easy enough to convert.
here is LCM for 2015 http://forums.usms.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9615&d=143058691...

The motivational times come from the respective meets of scy and LCM. Short course is more competitive, so they may not match up when put through a conversion.

There were about double the number of people at USMS SCY Nationals (~1800) this year versus the LCM Nationals (~900).

And yes, the times are from going off the blocks.  Not in-pool starts.




I guess that even if people don't make one of the standards (B,A,AA...), they can track their progress by comparing a percentage off relative to X




2015-08-13 3:03 PM
in reply to: marcag

Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Ridgelake

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by 3mar Monday so I'll get my 50 and 100 meter times, however they are easy enough to convert.
here is LCM for 2015 http://forums.usms.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9615&d=14305...

The motivational times come from the respective meets of scy and LCM. Short course is more competitive, so they may not match up when put through a conversion.

There were about double the number of people at USMS SCY Nationals (~1800) this year versus the LCM Nationals (~900).

And yes, the times are from going off the blocks.  Not in-pool starts.

I guess that even if people don't make one of the standards (B,A,AA...), they can track their progress by comparing a percentage off relative to X

Yeah, off the blocks does make a difference, especially in the shorter races, but one can still see progress well enough so long as they keep doing things the same way.

2015-08-13 3:34 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Ridgelake

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by 3mar Monday so I'll get my 50 and 100 meter times, however they are easy enough to convert.
here is LCM for 2015 http://forums.usms.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9615&d=143058691...

The motivational times come from the respective meets of scy and LCM. Short course is more competitive, so they may not match up when put through a conversion.

There were about double the number of people at USMS SCY Nationals (~1800) this year versus the LCM Nationals (~900).

And yes, the times are from going off the blocks.  Not in-pool starts.

I guess that even if people don't make one of the standards (B,A,AA...), they can track their progress by comparing a percentage off relative to X

Yeah, off the blocks does make a difference, especially in the shorter races, but one can still see progress well enough so long as they keep doing things the same way.




It would great to hear from people if they are the same % off the X standard (or B standard) on a short distance like a 100 and a longer distance like the 500, 1000 or 1650.
2015-08-13 4:10 PM
in reply to: marcag

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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Ridgelake

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by 3mar Monday so I'll get my 50 and 100 meter times, however they are easy enough to convert.
here is LCM for 2015 http://forums.usms.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9615&d=14305...

The motivational times come from the respective meets of scy and LCM. Short course is more competitive, so they may not match up when put through a conversion.

There were about double the number of people at USMS SCY Nationals (~1800) this year versus the LCM Nationals (~900).

And yes, the times are from going off the blocks.  Not in-pool starts.

I guess that even if people don't make one of the standards (B,A,AA...), they can track their progress by comparing a percentage off relative to X

Yeah, off the blocks does make a difference, especially in the shorter races, but one can still see progress well enough so long as they keep doing things the same way.

It would great to hear from people if they are the same % off the X standard (or B standard) on a short distance like a 100 and a longer distance like the 500, 1000 or 1650.

My times for the 50, 100, and 200 free, 50 and 100 breast and 50 fly are all right around the AAA times.  The outlier for me is the 1500 free where I am about halfway between the X and AAAA times.  That is likely a combination of me training for longer distance swims for tri and the fact that masters swimmers hate doing the 1500 so the times are probably a bit soft.  

2015-08-13 4:14 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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1502
1000500
Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Ridgelake

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by 3mar Monday so I'll get my 50 and 100 meter times, however they are easy enough to convert.
here is LCM for 2015 http://forums.usms.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9615&d=143058691...

The motivational times come from the respective meets of scy and LCM. Short course is more competitive, so they may not match up when put through a conversion.

There were about double the number of people at USMS SCY Nationals (~1800) this year versus the LCM Nationals (~900).

And yes, the times are from going off the blocks.  Not in-pool starts.

I guess that even if people don't make one of the standards (B,A,AA...), they can track their progress by comparing a percentage off relative to X

Yeah, off the blocks does make a difference, especially in the shorter races, but one can still see progress well enough so long as they keep doing things the same way.

It would great to hear from people if they are the same % off the X standard (or B standard) on a short distance like a 100 and a longer distance like the 500, 1000 or 1650.

My times for the 50, 100, and 200 free, 50 and 100 breast and 50 fly are all right around the AAA times.  The outlier for me is the 1500 free where I am about halfway between the X and AAAA times.  That is likely a combination of me training for longer distance swims for tri and the fact that masters swimmers hate doing the 1500 so the times are probably a bit soft.  




If you're looking at the LCM times in the string above, I'm in the same type of distribution for the freestyle distances (excluding the fly and breast). And I agree that it is likely that less people do the 1,500 at those meets.
2015-08-13 4:15 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?


2015-08-13 4:18 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag

 It would great to hear from people if they are the same % off the X standard (or B standard) on a short distance like a 100 and a longer distance like the 500, 1000 or 1650.

My times for the 50, 100, and 200 free, 50 and 100 breast and 50 fly are all right around the AAA times.  The outlier for me is the 1500 free where I am about halfway between the X and AAAA times.  That is likely a combination of me training for longer distance swims for tri and the fact that masters swimmers hate doing the 1500 so the times are probably a bit soft.  

If you're looking at the LCM times in the string above, I'm in the same type of distribution for the freestyle distances (excluding the fly and breast). And I agree that it is likely that less people do the 1,500 at those meets.

All SCM for me

2015-08-13 4:28 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag

 It would great to hear from people if they are the same % off the X standard (or B standard) on a short distance like a 100 and a longer distance like the 500, 1000 or 1650.

My times for the 50, 100, and 200 free, 50 and 100 breast and 50 fly are all right around the AAA times.  The outlier for me is the 1500 free where I am about halfway between the X and AAAA times.  That is likely a combination of me training for longer distance swims for tri and the fact that masters swimmers hate doing the 1500 so the times are probably a bit soft.  

If you're looking at the LCM times in the string above, I'm in the same type of distribution for the freestyle distances (excluding the fly and breast). And I agree that it is likely that less people do the 1,500 at those meets.

All SCM for me




I'm the opposite. I do much better on the 50, 100 and 200 than 800 or 1500. Maybe i need to work more on fitness :-)
2015-08-13 5:32 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag

 It would great to hear from people if they are the same % off the X standard (or B standard) on a short distance like a 100 and a longer distance like the 500, 1000 or 1650.

My times for the 50, 100, and 200 free, 50 and 100 breast and 50 fly are all right around the AAA times.  The outlier for me is the 1500 free where I am about halfway between the X and AAAA times.  That is likely a combination of me training for longer distance swims for tri and the fact that masters swimmers hate doing the 1500 so the times are probably a bit soft.  

If you're looking at the LCM times in the string above, I'm in the same type of distribution for the freestyle distances (excluding the fly and breast). And I agree that it is likely that less people do the 1,500 at those meets.

All SCM for me

I'm the opposite. I do much better on the 50, 100 and 200 than 800 or 1500. Maybe i need to work more on fitness :-)

or pacing!  

2015-08-13 5:50 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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1502
1000500
Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag

 It would great to hear from people if they are the same % off the X standard (or B standard) on a short distance like a 100 and a longer distance like the 500, 1000 or 1650.

My times for the 50, 100, and 200 free, 50 and 100 breast and 50 fly are all right around the AAA times.  The outlier for me is the 1500 free where I am about halfway between the X and AAAA times.  That is likely a combination of me training for longer distance swims for tri and the fact that masters swimmers hate doing the 1500 so the times are probably a bit soft.  

If you're looking at the LCM times in the string above, I'm in the same type of distribution for the freestyle distances (excluding the fly and breast). And I agree that it is likely that less people do the 1,500 at those meets.

All SCM for me




In that case I'm about AAA for 50 and 100 and AAAA for 1,500. So still slightly better for the longer distance but that's been my story since high school. Quite frankly, I've always had that in the back of my head; i.e. am I better at the long distance events or is it just that less people do them.
2015-08-13 5:53 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Champion
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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?
Originally posted by axteraa

Didn't see the SCM times posted - this is 2014.

http://forums.usms.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8591&d=1397697742

 




When I was actually swimming, I would have been:

50 A
100 A
200 AA
400 AA
1500 between AAA and AAAA

SCM

Shane


2015-08-13 5:54 PM
in reply to: 0

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5000500
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag

 It would great to hear from people if they are the same % off the X standard (or B standard) on a short distance like a 100 and a longer distance like the 500, 1000 or 1650.

My times for the 50, 100, and 200 free, 50 and 100 breast and 50 fly are all right around the AAA times.  The outlier for me is the 1500 free where I am about halfway between the X and AAAA times.  That is likely a combination of me training for longer distance swims for tri and the fact that masters swimmers hate doing the 1500 so the times are probably a bit soft.  

If you're looking at the LCM times in the string above, I'm in the same type of distribution for the freestyle distances (excluding the fly and breast). And I agree that it is likely that less people do the 1,500 at those meets.

All SCM for me

I'm the opposite. I do much better on the 50, 100 and 200 than 800 or 1500. Maybe i need to work more on fitness :-)

or pacing!  




The motivational times were new to me
I had looked at the USMS qualifications, world's qualifications, some of the provincial (Ontario & Quebec ((kids) ) standards and you can actually seem "typical" profiles and then compare your results to them and see your relative strength and weakness.

The shape of your curve, the offset of your curve relative to others in your gender is interesting.

In cycling we have the power profiles. In running you can tell interesting things from the various VDOT tables. There is interesting swimming data out there for people with an open mind.






Edited by marcag 2015-08-13 5:56 PM
2015-08-13 5:59 PM
in reply to: marcag

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag

 It would great to hear from people if they are the same % off the X standard (or B standard) on a short distance like a 100 and a longer distance like the 500, 1000 or 1650.

My times for the 50, 100, and 200 free, 50 and 100 breast and 50 fly are all right around the AAA times.  The outlier for me is the 1500 free where I am about halfway between the X and AAAA times.  That is likely a combination of me training for longer distance swims for tri and the fact that masters swimmers hate doing the 1500 so the times are probably a bit soft.  

If you're looking at the LCM times in the string above, I'm in the same type of distribution for the freestyle distances (excluding the fly and breast). And I agree that it is likely that less people do the 1,500 at those meets.

All SCM for me

I'm the opposite. I do much better on the 50, 100 and 200 than 800 or 1500. Maybe i need to work more on fitness :-)

or pacing!  

The motivational times were new to me I had looked at the USMS qualifications, world's qualifications, some of the provincial (Ontario & Quebec ((kids) ) standards and you can actually seem "typical" profiles and then compare your results to them and see your relative strength and weakness. The shape of your curve, the offset of your curve relative to others in your gender is interesting. In cycling we have the power profiles. In running you can tell interesting things from the various VDOT tables. There is interesting swimming data out there for people with an open mind.

Best I can remember, I'd be pretty flat on this one though a slight improvement with longer distance. Not enough to go up a level though. With the qualification times, I think the longer ones tended to look more obtainable.

2015-08-13 6:06 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Elite
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50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag

 It would great to hear from people if they are the same % off the X standard (or B standard) on a short distance like a 100 and a longer distance like the 500, 1000 or 1650.

My times for the 50, 100, and 200 free, 50 and 100 breast and 50 fly are all right around the AAA times.  The outlier for me is the 1500 free where I am about halfway between the X and AAAA times.  That is likely a combination of me training for longer distance swims for tri and the fact that masters swimmers hate doing the 1500 so the times are probably a bit soft.  

If you're looking at the LCM times in the string above, I'm in the same type of distribution for the freestyle distances (excluding the fly and breast). And I agree that it is likely that less people do the 1,500 at those meets.

All SCM for me

In that case I'm about AAA for 50 and 100 and AAAA for 1,500. So still slightly better for the longer distance but that's been my story since high school. Quite frankly, I've always had that in the back of my head; i.e. am I better at the long distance events or is it just that less people do them.

Not me, I was a sprinter as a kid!  I don't think I ever swam the 400 free in competition (the 200 was a stretch) and definitely not the 1500!

2015-08-13 6:12 PM
in reply to: nc452010

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1502
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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?
Since we're already at six pages, let me throw this one out there:

What would be equivalent paces for running to the swimming. i.e. say you wanted to create a scale so that you could explain to a runner what a sub 20:00 1,500m would be or a sub 1:00 100m?

One way to look at it would be to take the percentage of the world record for an event that is an equal time.

Men's world record for 5k = 12:37
Men's world record for 1,500m = 14:10

So a 20:00 1,500 is 1.41x WR
That would be equivalent to a 17:47 5k

This board has went in so many directions, so why not. And we're now talking about relative times. Thoughts?
2015-08-13 6:19 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?
Originally posted by 3mar

Since we're already at six pages, let me throw this one out there:

What would be equivalent paces for running to the swimming. i.e. say you wanted to create a scale so that you could explain to a runner what a sub 20:00 1,500m would be or a sub 1:00 100m?

One way to look at it would be to take the percentage of the world record for an event that is an equal time.

Men's world record for 5k = 12:37
Men's world record for 1,500m = 14:10

So a 20:00 1,500 is 1.41x WR
That would be equivalent to a 17:47 5k

This board has went in so many directions, so why not. And we're now talking about relative times. Thoughts?


For me, very very rough....20min 1500m swim = 40min 10k run = 1hr 40k bike for an athlete that is equal in all 3 sports
(I think that run is a little too conservative, but I like round numbers)

Edited by marcag 2015-08-13 6:32 PM


2015-08-13 7:03 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Master
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Eugene, Oregon
Subject: RE: Swim fitness or technique?
I can't sprint to save my life, on land or in the pool. Right now I would be close to A for the 1500m and BB for the 100m. I actually swim a faster PACE for my longer races--if I look at my race results, my fastest swims are all HIM or 1800m (international distance tri). Not just placing--my time per 100m is actually quite a bit faster. I feel like I have efficient technique for long swims, but not short, fast ones. Or maybe I am 100% slow twitch. Or else I have really crappy form but incredible fitness?? There is really not much difference between the pace I can hold for 500m and 3000m+. My best 100m lately is around 1:28, but I can do a set of 100's on 2 minutes and hold 1:35-1:36. I can hold 1:43 for more than 3K (continuous swim). Go figure.
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