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Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise
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 2015-09-28 6:40 AM |
Member  1748     Exton, PA |  Subject: Half Marathon & Marathon run AdviseSo I am signed up for Philly marathon on November 22nd which is my A race. I am also signed up for Rock and Roll half marathon on October 31st. I signed up for the half because it was free(company paid), and I figured it would be a good training run for the full. My question is how hard can I go on the half marathon without it effecting the full? It is 3 weeks before the full. |
| 2015-09-28 8:12 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise How much do you run? And how quickly do you recover from hard efforts? Generally, that's pretty close and I'd probably suggest you consider running maybe the first 10mi at goal marathon pace (or even build into goal MP over the first 2-3 miles) and then push the final 5k. That'll still be a pretty tough workout, but not so bad as pushing for the full half. |
| 2015-09-28 8:20 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise I'm putting in about 35-45 miles/week right now(also riding about 50-100miles/wk) I recover fairly well, I felt fully recovered 2 to 3 weeks after my IM this summer. I was thinking about running faster than marathon pace but not all out. If more experienced runners tell me running all out 3 weeks before should not effect me then I would go for. |
| 2015-09-28 8:24 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise What would your marathon training plan having you doing if you weren't doing the HM? The Hal Higdon plans that I've used have called for a HM about 8 weeks before running a marathon. I'm quite a bit older than you (62) with a longer recovery window. I'd have to treat the HM as a training run and not really "race" it. YMMV. Mark
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| 2015-09-28 8:57 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise More experienced runners would probably be doing more than 35-45mpw, so their experience may not apply to you. I think you should hold it to MP until late in the race and then pick it up. Trying to 'dance the line' between MP & HMP is inviting trouble. You won't know if it's too fast or not until it's too late.
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| 2015-09-28 10:21 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise Originally posted by JohnnyKay More experienced runners would probably be doing more than 35-45mpw, so their experience may not apply to you. I think you should hold it to MP until late in the race and then pick it up. Trying to 'dance the line' between MP & HMP is inviting trouble. You won't know if it's too fast or not until it's too late.
That's what I was thinking that I would need to hold back on the half. The signed up because I had a free entry and though it would be a good training run for the marathon. So I'll just keep it at Marathon pace and pick it up in the last 3 miles. |
| 2015-09-28 10:45 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise I do think an MP run with a 'fast finish', which this race would be for you, is a good training run a few weeks out from your marathon. It should give you some good pacing practice along with the 'mental exercise' you need to push yourself toward the end. Hopefully, you will be able to run that last 5k at HMP or faster and it will give you some confidence heading into the marathon. Being in a race environment should help you push that last 5k, while your real challenge may be maintaining your pacing discipline early in the race when you feel great. Both are valuable for success in the marathon. I generally wouldn't pay for that kind of training run. But since it's free for you anyway, I think it could work quite well. |
| 2015-10-01 11:18 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
| New user 560 Key West | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise Good idea to run a HM 3-4 weeks prior to your Mary. I do it every marathon cycle. I set my goal to stay at GMP but, to be honest, I would probably say I run it at GMP -10 seconds. So, not an all out effort, but more than what is recommended, which is your tempo pace (GMP) for long runs. I run more miles a week than you do (60+) and am older (60+), but don't cross train right now. So, you should be OK. |
| 2015-10-01 12:29 PM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise Originally posted by JohnnyKay More experienced runners would probably be doing more than 35-45mpw, so their experience may not apply to you. I think you should hold it to MP until late in the race and then pick it up. Trying to 'dance the line' between MP & HMP is inviting trouble. You won't know if it's too fast or not until it's too late.
x2 |
| 2015-10-01 2:25 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise Originally posted by RedCorvette What would your marathon training plan having you doing if you weren't doing the HM? The Hal Higdon plans that I've used have called for a HM about 8 weeks before running a marathon.
I'm not the OP, but I know this race and Higdon plans. This race is normally in late September (last weekend) but was moved because some guy named Francis was in town. It usually lines up right on plan with Higdon and the Philly full. I'm sure the move to late October put a monkey wrench in more than a few folk's training plans. Good news is it's on Halloween; I'll be running in some sort of costume. I'm not doing the full in Nov. and am not in prime running shape after coming of a broken ankle in the spring but I plan to do my best at the half. My PR for this race is 1:37:55 and I know I won't come near that. |
| 2015-10-01 2:38 PM in reply to: mrbbrad |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by RedCorvette What would your marathon training plan having you doing if you weren't doing the HM? The Hal Higdon plans that I've used have called for a HM about 8 weeks before running a marathon.
I'm not the OP, but I know this race and Higdon plans. This race is normally in late September (last weekend) but was moved because some guy named Francis was in town. It usually lines up right on plan with Higdon and the Philly full. I'm sure the move to late October put a monkey wrench in more than a few folk's training plans. Good news is it's on Halloween; I'll be running in some sort of costume. I'm not doing the full in Nov. and am not in prime running shape after coming of a broken ankle in the spring but I plan to do my best at the half. My PR for this race is 1:37:55 and I know I won't come near that. I'm going with Johnny K's advise, hanging in at marathon pace for 10 than doing a hard 5 k to finish. I should finish around 1:50- 1:53. However I have never run just a 1/2 marathon race before  I've done a marathons, an IM, and four 1/2 IM; not to mention numerous 13+ training days. So what ever I do will be a PR for me |
| 2015-11-02 7:22 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise So it was a nice day for the 1/2 on Saturday! I just tried to run it at marathon pace but went out a little too fast. Just hard to hold back, so the first mile or two were about 30-45 seconds faster pace then I wanted to do. It was great to be running along side people who were pushing hard and I was just cruising still able to hold a conversation AT about 10 miles I thought I would pick up the pace and I did for about 2 miles but really did not have it in my legs to hold the faster pace so I back down again. Finished in 1:55 which is right about where I thought I would, not bad considering I did a 21 mile training run 6 days before that and did not taper for this at all. I start tapering this week for the Philly full now. This was on Halloween of coarse and since I was just running tempo I dressed up. If anyone else was running I was the caveman! Maybe the only one, at least I did not see anyone else dressed as a caveman. |
| 2015-11-02 8:37 AM in reply to: mike761 |
| 1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise Congrats! How are you feeling today? Mary |
| 2015-11-02 8:37 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Member 326 | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise Sounds like you had a good race. I find that the hardest part of any race (if you are just using it as a training run) is not getting carried away with atmosphere of the race and going out to fast. But, it is good training on the importance of going at your pace and ignoring what is going on around you. You are racing against the clock, not against others, that is an important lesson to learn. As an example I did a half marathon race 6 days before I was to run the Fargo Marathon where I hoped to BQ. I normally run the half in under 1:30. But, my coach had me go out at a 8:00/mile pace and ignore the other racers. It killed me not to take off with 6:45 runners that I normally run with. But I had a fun and enjoyable run and spent more time chatting with other racers and the volunteers. Then 6 days later I ran a 3:10 in Fargo and qualified for Boston. |
| 2015-11-02 10:32 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
| DC | Subject: RE: Half Marathon & Marathon run Advise Originally posted by JohnnyKay More experienced runners would probably be doing more than 35-45mpw, so their experience may not apply to you. I think you should hold it to MP until late in the race and then pick it up. Trying to 'dance the line' between MP & HMP is inviting trouble. You won't know if it's too fast or not until it's too late.
FWIW: I have run back-to-backs w/around that weekly mileage and have done it w/some 70mpw... w/some helpful advice from JonnyKay himself... & I agree w/him on this one as well. |
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