General Discussion Triathlon Talk » 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR? Rss Feed  
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2016-10-01 12:28 PM

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Subject: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?

I completed a 20 minute test on TrainerRoad. My FTP went from 215 to 225, but my LTHR went from 148 to 128.

I'm confused. Does this mean I didn't push hard enough on the test?

Thoughts?


2016-10-01 2:31 PM
in reply to: roserc

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?
Depends. Is this virtual power or real power? That HR seems pretty low to me but then again we're all different. Was it steadily increasing when you did it? Here's a FTP test I did a few months ago: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1175790838 I started in the 150's and was getting close to 180 at the end. I tend to not really care about HR on the bike. I used to care about LTHR but during races, I just look at power. My HR is always higher during a race since it spikes up to 170+ during the swim, even if I'm calm and that higher HR carries over for 60-90 minutes on the bike for me.
2016-10-01 2:39 PM
in reply to: #5200463

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?
LTHR should be about the same it might be a few beats off but 20 lower doesn't seem right. Sounds like you have more in the tank. What's the time frame between tests?

2016-10-01 4:51 PM
in reply to: roserc

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?
The last test was mid July, so about 2.5 months. I have been riding a lot. Both tests are with Powertap pedals, so no virtual power.

As I think about it, I was not totally spent after the test, so maybe I didn't push as hard as I could have.
2016-10-01 4:56 PM
in reply to: roserc

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?

for me a HR of 128 would be zone 1.  everyone is different but here is the real question.  Did you feel like you were going to puke by the end?

2016-10-01 6:18 PM
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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?
Guessing there might be an issue with your heart rate monitor. 148 already sounds rather low to me for a 20-minute test; 128 would be toward the upper end of Z1 (an easy recovery effort, or toward the beginning of warmup or end of cooldown). I think my average HR for my last 20-minute test was in the high 160's or low 170's. There's a lot of variation between people, but 128 is really low, even considering that.

Assuming HR data is correct, it would mean you are fitter (more power for less cardio effort), but I think there is something wrong with the data. Not sure what setup you have. I have a chest strap monitor that connects with the Garmin on the bike. I know when I sit up and lean back (such as to stretch or get a drink from the rear mount), the Garmin will sometimes show a big drop in HR or lose the signal, especially if the battery is low.

Edited by Hot Runner 2016-10-01 6:19 PM


2016-10-01 6:26 PM
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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?
For me, when my HRM is going to go, it gets real spiky and cuts out a lot. It should be pretty obvious if the battery is going to go. Also, I had two that went out that read nothing or 78 bpm and nothing else. Again pretty easy to tell. Replacing the battery can't hurt. So that's worth a shot When you do hard efforts, what's your HR at? Again, I think that's really low but I've seen my HR hit 182 or so before on runs, so my HR can get up there. Curious on what you've seen personally. If you hit 170's while running or biking sometimes, then that's way too low.

Also, as others have said, you should have exhausted at the end. Like no way could you talk at all during this test and you have heavy heavy breathing. I know I sound like I'm have a deep voiced asthma attack or something, even though I don't have asthma. I'm just giving it all I can at the end to keep my power up.

Edited by Blastman 2016-10-01 6:28 PM
2016-10-02 8:04 AM
in reply to: Blastman

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?

In the half dozen or so tests I've done on TR (using virtual power), I've been in the mid-130s for LTHR - I think it's at 134 for the bike right now.  It's around 140 for the run (based on outdoor tests during run races).  Yes, I was pretty close to puking during the tests. 

So, comparing yourself to others is pretty useless, but that discrepancy between 148 and 128 sounds really off.

2016-10-02 4:48 PM
in reply to: roserc

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?

Originally posted by roserc I completed a 20 minute test on TrainerRoad. My FTP went from 215 to 225, but my LTHR went from 148 to 128. I'm confused. Does this mean I didn't push hard enough on the test? Thoughts?

FTP should increase over time with training.  Depending on how long it was between tests, there's nothing unusual about a 10 watt (5%) increase.  LTHR won't vary much.  20 BPM is pretty much impossible.

The difference in HR indicates that something definitely wasn't right, though.  How was your RPE for the test?  Did it feel as hard as the previous one?  If they felt similar, it's likely something wasn't right with the monitor.  Look at the data.  Were there large spikes or drop outs?

If the second felt significantly easier, and the data is smooth, (and there were a few months between the two tests), then the issue was that you didn't push hard enough for the second test.

Identify what the problem was, and re-test.

 

2016-10-02 6:15 PM
in reply to: roserc

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?

Have you taken a look at the all the data from both tests?  Might be possible that your HRM was not reading properly for a portion of the test that threw off your overall 20 minute average. Or possible your HR was correct, you weren't pushing that hard, but you wattage data might have been reading high on the second test for a portion bringing your average artificially high.

2016-10-04 8:10 PM
in reply to: #5200463

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?
Thanks for all the input. I didn't push hard enough on the last test.

I retested with a different heart rate monitor and really went at it hard. The new results were LTHR = 146 and FTP = 242. Quite a difference when I tested correctly.

Lesson: Go into the test ready to do some suffering...


2016-10-05 1:24 AM
in reply to: roserc

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?
That makes a bit more sense! Women and smaller people do tend to have higher heart rates (resting and LTHR) so that is probably pretty reasonable for you.
2016-10-05 9:51 AM
in reply to: roserc

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?

Originally posted by roserc Thanks for all the input. I didn't push hard enough on the last test. I retested with a different heart rate monitor and really went at it hard. The new results were LTHR = 146 and FTP = 242. Quite a difference when I tested correctly. Lesson: Go into the test ready to do some suffering...

Those numbers make a lot more sense in light of the first test.

 

2016-10-05 11:04 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by roserc Thanks for all the input. I didn't push hard enough on the last test. I retested with a different heart rate monitor and really went at it hard. The new results were LTHR = 146 and FTP = 242. Quite a difference when I tested correctly. Lesson: Go into the test ready to do some suffering...

Those numbers make a lot more sense in light of the first test.

 




Yup! Don't slack! You have to feel like you're on the edge of puking the last minute of that test.
2016-10-05 11:46 PM
in reply to: kloofyroland

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?
Wow, 215 to 242 is huge. Keep up the good work! I hope you realize that now your workouts are going to be even harder! No pain, no gain
2016-10-06 7:50 AM
in reply to: Blastman

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Subject: RE: 20 min test - Higher FTP but lower LTHR?

Originally posted by Blastman Wow, 215 to 242 is huge. Keep up the good work! I hope you realize that now your workouts are going to be even harder! No pain, no gain

Well, yes and no on the latter part. Should be able to learn how to make them more consistently hard in a relative sense as the targets go up.



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