Swimming Drills & Accessories??
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Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
2016-11-15 12:35 PM |
83 | Subject: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? This was my first year attempting some tri's and did 2 sprints. I really enjoyed the bike / run portion but need some help with swim. I think on the 400m that I did for the sprint portion I averaged 2:00 per 100m. Besides joining a masters swim program and swimming more than 2 days a week are there any good drills that I can do on my own anyone would recommend? Also, besides goggles I don't have any accessories but not sure if fins or anything else is even necessary. Thanks in advance for your help. Edited by Ericallenboyd 2016-11-15 12:35 PM |
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2016-11-15 5:01 PM in reply to: Ericallenboyd |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Originally posted by Ericallenboyd Besides joining a masters swim program and swimming more than 2 days a week are there any good drills that I can do on my own anyone would recommend? Also, besides goggles I don't have any accessories but not sure if fins or anything else is even necessary. Thanks in advance for your help. Without seeing you swim it is impossible to recommend drills. Drills in general are used FAR too often by triathletes, often in-lieu of simply putting in sufficient yardage during training. Yes, it is true if you have a specific and identifiable problem/issue/shortcoming then there may be a drill that will help you improve that area of your technique. However, to blindly prescribe a drill or set of drills may, indeed probably would, do more harm than good. just because a drill helped another person does not mean it will help you in the same way. The best thing you can do is spend time with a qualified coach/instructor who can identify the flaws in your technique then offer appropriate suggestions for improvement. Absent a coach/instructor on deck, you might consider a remote video analysis. While not as efficient as a coach on deck, it is a viable alternative. Good luck. |
2016-11-16 12:22 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 717 Chicago, USA | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Drills in general are used FAR too often by triathletes, often in-lieu of simply putting in sufficient yardage during training. Yes, it is true if you have a specific and identifiable problem/issue/shortcoming then there may be a drill that will help you improve that area of your technique. However, to blindly prescribe a drill or set of drills may, indeed probably would, do more harm than good. just because a drill helped another person does not mean it will help you in the same way. The best thing you can do is spend time with a qualified coach/instructor who can identify the flaws in your technique then offer appropriate suggestions for improvement. Some good advice above. But there is one swim aid that can help nearly everyone learn a far more efficient freestyle swim technique. I speak from decades of personal experience and from teaching many many "adult onset" swimmer triathletes. Get a set of decent sized (but not huge) hand-shaped paddles that are flat or very slightly curved. Get some basic ones like this, sized for your body size and level of swimming experience, as an example, these are strokemaker paddles: https://www.clubassistant.com/c/D0FB963/image/KOW/strokemaker.jpg Using paddles occasionally, when properly and set up and used with a good pull buoy can help a swimmer notice and self-correct both big and tiny stroke problems that even a coach or video analysis would completely miss. No kidding. But don't use paddles for more than approx 25% of your total yardage (at most). BUT (and this is very very important), you want to get paddles that can be set up with NO wrist strap, and only A SINGLE piece of surgical tubing around your middle finger. Initially, this will feel weird because your bad technique will make it so the paddles will feel like they are getting pulled off your hands. But, over just a little bit of time, this will rapidly change, you will self correct on your entry, exit, and underwater pull so that the paddles will be securely pressed on to your hands during your whole swim cycle. But, also be aware, if you get paddles with a wrist strap, and if you do not remove the wrist strap, you could actually be making your technique worse. Greg @ dsw Edited by DarkSpeedWorks 2016-11-16 12:23 PM |
2016-11-16 1:45 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Originally posted by k9car363 Originally posted by Ericallenboyd Besides joining a masters swim program and swimming more than 2 days a week are there any good drills that I can do on my own anyone would recommend? Also, besides goggles I don't have any accessories but not sure if fins or anything else is even necessary. Thanks in advance for your help. Without seeing you swim it is impossible to recommend drills. Drills in general are used FAR too often by triathletes, often in-lieu of simply putting in sufficient yardage during training. Yes, it is true if you have a specific and identifiable problem/issue/shortcoming then there may be a drill that will help you improve that area of your technique. However, to blindly prescribe a drill or set of drills may, indeed probably would, do more harm than good. just because a drill helped another person does not mean it will help you in the same way. The best thing you can do is spend time with a qualified coach/instructor who can identify the flaws in your technique then offer appropriate suggestions for improvement. Absent a coach/instructor on deck, you might consider a remote video analysis. While not as efficient as a coach on deck, it is a viable alternative. Good luck. Thank you, Scott! I'm glad to see you chimed in here before people started sharing their "favorite" drills. Scott gives excellent advice here. Getting suggestions for drills from people who haven't seen you swim is like getting advice for good medications from people who don't know anything about your illness. A diagnosis is necessary before a prescription can be made.
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2016-11-16 2:23 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
83 | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Thanks for the responses. I have taken 2 months off from swimming and going to start back up in January where I will be signing up for the masters swim club. I guess if I need any fins, paddles, etc I can purchase them at that time. Thanks again. |
2016-11-16 5:43 PM in reply to: Ericallenboyd |
Member 1083 | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Okay - I'll play the contrarian. I think that drills are great and I use them in every workout as part of my warm up at least. But I think they are mostly beneficial if you know what the goal or purpose of the drill is. The first drill that clicked for me was 3 kick switch or 3-6-3. 3 strokes, Leave one arm out front and do 6 kicks with your belly pointed to the wall, back to center take 3 strokes and rotate your belly to the other wall for six kicks. Because it forced me to balance on both sides it was obvious even to me right off the bat that my balance or buoyancy was totally different with one arm extended than the other. For me this directly related to why I had trouble breathing on that same side. So that's a great drill for me to work on my bilateral breathing. Also there can be lots of breathing and I'm a big fan of breathing so I like it. And the flip side - I did about 3 years of fingertip drag before a coach told me a) I was doing it incorrectly and b) here's what you're trying to focus on with that drill. That was really helpful to me personally because then I was working on something specific as opposed to slowly flappling my way down the lane. I agree there is no point in that and I did do that for a long time with most likely no benefit. I have found that drills are slightly different depending on who teaches them. It was a masters coach who taught me about the drills I love now. So, I think your plan to join masters is a good plan. Practically nothing replaces a great coach in my opinion. I have no idea what type of swimmer you are or where you need work. I'm not an elite swimmer. Adult onset - totally average but slightly obsessed. But I'm happy to help explain the drills that I know of and what they're for if you think that would help. As for equipment I have in my bag a kick board, swim fins, a pull buoy, a swim snorkel and small paddles. |
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2016-11-16 6:01 PM in reply to: Ericallenboyd |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? I think most master's coaches would recommend some drills based on issues they see with your form. In the groups that I've swum with, this is a part of each regular practice, and you could certainly incorporate them into the workouts you do on your own. If not (maybe for some really high-powered or strictly fitness-oriented groups), you could probably pay the coach for an extra private session just to give you feedback on your form and recommend some drills to help address what you need to work on. Just blindly doing drills isn't really useful unless you know how to do the drill correctly and it addresses a form issue you actually have. As for equipment, you might want to see what the coach recommends, what other swimmers have, and what is already available. There is equipment to borrow at most pools I have swum at. I generally just bring my own paddles and "tube" (a bike inner tube that you can use to tie your feet together for pull sets). Most pools have pull buoys and kick boards; some have fins and paddles. The latter two "pool toys" vary a bit more in terms of size, fit, and purpose, so you might want to get your own if they're being used a lot in practice or your coach recommends them. If you want/need a snorkel, then that is probably something you do NOT want to share with other people! |
2016-11-16 7:09 PM in reply to: miamiamy |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Hey Amy, First off, before i say what i am about to say, i am not looking for a fight so please don't take anything I say personally - it isn't directed at you. I want to highlight my earlier point for anyone that is interested Sorry it will be at your "expense." For the record, I didn't say that drills were bad. I said, "if you have a specific and identifiable problem/issue/shortcoming then there may be a drill that will help you improve that area of your technique." I also said, 'Drills in general are used FAR too often by triathletes, often in-lieu of simply putting in sufficient yardage during training." Originally posted by miamiamy Okay - I'll play the contrarian. I think that drills are great and I use them in every workout as part of my warm up at least. But I think they are mostly beneficial if you know what the goal or purpose of the drill is. The first drill that clicked for me was 3 kick switch or 3-6-3. 3 strokes, Leave one arm out front and do 6 kicks with your belly pointed to the wall, back to center take 3 strokes and rotate your belly to the other wall for six kicks. Because it forced me to balance on both sides it was obvious even to me right off the bat that my balance or buoyancy was totally different with one arm extended than the other. For me this directly related to why I had trouble breathing on that same side. So that's a great drill for me to work on my bilateral breathing. Also there can be lots of breathing and I'm a big fan of breathing so I like it. And the flip side - I did about 3 years of fingertip drag before a coach told me a) I was doing it incorrectly and b) here's what you're trying to focus on with that drill. It's great that you found a drill that helped you. That does not, in and of itself, mean that same drill will help the OP. Maybe it will be valuable, perhaps not. Until someone qualified to assess his (?) stroke actually sees him swim, anyone offering drills is simply guessing. I rarely have athletes I work with do a specific drill for more than 3-4 weeks. That you did a single drill for 3-years highlights what I said about drills being used far to often by triathletes, often in-lieu of simply putting in sufficient yardage. Back when we were in grade school; when we learned cursive writing, we were all given that special lined paper and we did writing drills. But we don't do those anymore do we? Why? Because we acquired a basic skill and moved on. In the same way, a drill will help you eliminate a flaw and acquire a basic skill. However at some point, you must move on and swim. I began my competitive swimming career over 47 years ago. I was very fortunate to have competed at a high level both Nationally and Internationally. To this day, I still have a coach watch me swim a couple of times a year. I still do a focused technique block every off-season and at the beginning of the summer. Both of those technique blocks include some drill work. However, after I have brushed up my technique, I put in the yards. There is a dichotomy at work in swimming that is very difficult to overcome - you can't have good technique without good swim fitness and you can't have good swim fitness without good technique. You can't have one without the other as they are two sides of the same coin - they must be built simultaneously. If you spend all your time, or most of your time, doing drills, you will never build sufficient swim fitness to a) acquire truly good technique, and b) ever be fast. One final point, if you have a qualified coach/instructor that has prescribed a specific drill and you are not making progress within a couple of weeks, either a) the drill is the wrong drill, b) you aren't doing the drill properly, or c) you need a coach or different coach. |
2016-11-19 7:31 AM in reply to: k9car363 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Originally posted by k9car363 Hey Amy, First off, before i say what i am about to say, i am not looking for a fight so please don't take anything I say personally - it isn't directed at you. I want to highlight my earlier point for anyone that is interested Sorry it will be at your "expense." For the record, I didn't say that drills were bad. I said, "if you have a specific and identifiable problem/issue/shortcoming then there may be a drill that will help you improve that area of your technique." I also said, 'Drills in general are used FAR too often by triathletes, often in-lieu of simply putting in sufficient yardage during training." Originally posted by miamiamy Okay - I'll play the contrarian. I think that drills are great and I use them in every workout as part of my warm up at least. But I think they are mostly beneficial if you know what the goal or purpose of the drill is. The first drill that clicked for me was 3 kick switch or 3-6-3. 3 strokes, Leave one arm out front and do 6 kicks with your belly pointed to the wall, back to center take 3 strokes and rotate your belly to the other wall for six kicks. Because it forced me to balance on both sides it was obvious even to me right off the bat that my balance or buoyancy was totally different with one arm extended than the other. For me this directly related to why I had trouble breathing on that same side. So that's a great drill for me to work on my bilateral breathing. Also there can be lots of breathing and I'm a big fan of breathing so I like it. And the flip side - I did about 3 years of fingertip drag before a coach told me a) I was doing it incorrectly and b) here's what you're trying to focus on with that drill. It's great that you found a drill that helped you. That does not, in and of itself, mean that same drill will help the OP. Maybe it will be valuable, perhaps not. Until someone qualified to assess his (?) stroke actually sees him swim, anyone offering drills is simply guessing. I rarely have athletes I work with do a specific drill for more than 3-4 weeks. That you did a single drill for 3-years highlights what I said about drills being used far to often by triathletes, often in-lieu of simply putting in sufficient yardage. Back when we were in grade school; when we learned cursive writing, we were all given that special lined paper and we did writing drills. But we don't do those anymore do we? Why? Because we acquired a basic skill and moved on. In the same way, a drill will help you eliminate a flaw and acquire a basic skill. However at some point, you must move on and swim. I began my competitive swimming career over 47 years ago. I was very fortunate to have competed at a high level both Nationally and Internationally. To this day, I still have a coach watch me swim a couple of times a year. I still do a focused technique block every off-season and at the beginning of the summer. Both of those technique blocks include some drill work. However, after I have brushed up my technique, I put in the yards. There is a dichotomy at work in swimming that is very difficult to overcome - you can't have good technique without good swim fitness and you can't have good swim fitness without good technique. You can't have one without the other as they are two sides of the same coin - they must be built simultaneously. If you spend all your time, or most of your time, doing drills, you will never build sufficient swim fitness to a) acquire truly good technique, and b) ever be fast. One final point, if you have a qualified coach/instructor that has prescribed a specific drill and you are not making progress within a couple of weeks, either a) the drill is the wrong drill, b) you aren't doing the drill properly, or c) you need a coach or different coach. As always, good stuff, Scott. Thanks for sharing your experience. The bolded part is particularly good. How often do we see debates regarding whether technique or fitness is more important, or which one a particular athlete should work on? The answer is always that they're both important, because they're intertwined to the point of being the same thing. Instead of thinking of them as two different things, I encourage my athletes to view them as one thing: technique-fitness. Without adequate fitness, technique breaks down, and without adequate technique, you won't be applying the right stresses to achieve the desired fitness gains. Always be working on both.
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2016-11-20 12:36 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
409 Durham, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by k9car363 Hey Amy, First off, before i say what i am about to say, i am not looking for a fight so please don't take anything I say personally - it isn't directed at you. I want to highlight my earlier point for anyone that is interested Sorry it will be at your "expense." For the record, I didn't say that drills were bad. I said, "if you have a specific and identifiable problem/issue/shortcoming then there may be a drill that will help you improve that area of your technique." I also said, 'Drills in general are used FAR too often by triathletes, often in-lieu of simply putting in sufficient yardage during training." Originally posted by miamiamy Okay - I'll play the contrarian. I think that drills are great and I use them in every workout as part of my warm up at least. But I think they are mostly beneficial if you know what the goal or purpose of the drill is. The first drill that clicked for me was 3 kick switch or 3-6-3. 3 strokes, Leave one arm out front and do 6 kicks with your belly pointed to the wall, back to center take 3 strokes and rotate your belly to the other wall for six kicks. Because it forced me to balance on both sides it was obvious even to me right off the bat that my balance or buoyancy was totally different with one arm extended than the other. For me this directly related to why I had trouble breathing on that same side. So that's a great drill for me to work on my bilateral breathing. Also there can be lots of breathing and I'm a big fan of breathing so I like it. And the flip side - I did about 3 years of fingertip drag before a coach told me a) I was doing it incorrectly and b) here's what you're trying to focus on with that drill. It's great that you found a drill that helped you. That does not, in and of itself, mean that same drill will help the OP. Maybe it will be valuable, perhaps not. Until someone qualified to assess his (?) stroke actually sees him swim, anyone offering drills is simply guessing. I rarely have athletes I work with do a specific drill for more than 3-4 weeks. That you did a single drill for 3-years highlights what I said about drills being used far to often by triathletes, often in-lieu of simply putting in sufficient yardage. Back when we were in grade school; when we learned cursive writing, we were all given that special lined paper and we did writing drills. But we don't do those anymore do we? Why? Because we acquired a basic skill and moved on. In the same way, a drill will help you eliminate a flaw and acquire a basic skill. However at some point, you must move on and swim. I began my competitive swimming career over 47 years ago. I was very fortunate to have competed at a high level both Nationally and Internationally. To this day, I still have a coach watch me swim a couple of times a year. I still do a focused technique block every off-season and at the beginning of the summer. Both of those technique blocks include some drill work. However, after I have brushed up my technique, I put in the yards. There is a dichotomy at work in swimming that is very difficult to overcome - you can't have good technique without good swim fitness and you can't have good swim fitness without good technique. You can't have one without the other as they are two sides of the same coin - they must be built simultaneously. If you spend all your time, or most of your time, doing drills, you will never build sufficient swim fitness to a) acquire truly good technique, and b) ever be fast. One final point, if you have a qualified coach/instructor that has prescribed a specific drill and you are not making progress within a couple of weeks, either a) the drill is the wrong drill, b) you aren't doing the drill properly, or c) you need a coach or different coach. As always, good stuff, Scott. Thanks for sharing your experience. The bolded part is particularly good. How often do we see debates regarding whether technique or fitness is more important, or which one a particular athlete should work on? The answer is always that they're both important, because they're intertwined to the point of being the same thing. Instead of thinking of them as two different things, I encourage my athletes to view them as one thing: technique-fitness. Without adequate fitness, technique breaks down, and without adequate technique, you won't be applying the right stresses to achieve the desired fitness gains. Always be working on both.
Sorry if this is off topic, but I have question about this. Lets assume you have quasi decent form, but have taken too much time out of the pool and lost swim fitness. Is it better to use buoys and paddles for a larger portion of the swim so you can maintain that form instead of getting sloppy? Or should I try something else while getting my swim strength back? |
2016-11-20 4:40 PM in reply to: Lupy |
Extreme Veteran 717 Chicago, USA | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Originally posted by Lupy Sorry if this is off topic, but I have question about this. Lets assume you have quasi decent form, but have taken too much time out of the pool and lost swim fitness. Is it better to use buoys and paddles for a larger portion of the swim so you can maintain that form instead of getting sloppy? Or should I try something else while getting my swim strength back? While certain paddles, when properly set up can help you with stroke technique (if not overused), l don't think using buoys and paddles for a big chunk of your yards will help you maintain form without getting sloppy while getting your swim fitness back. The best way to get swim fitness back is to swim more. The best way to swim more without your form getting sloppy is to swim frequently but not do huge yardage every time. In other words, as you ramp up, even if the total yards are the same in both cases, it is far better to swim more frequently with less each yards each time, than to swim less frequently but with more yards each time. Due to the way you fatigue and recover, more frequent swimming with lesser yards will allow you to spend a bigger percentage of your swim time swimming with better technique. |
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2016-11-20 5:39 PM in reply to: DarkSpeedWorks |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Originally posted by DarkSpeedWorks Originally posted by Lupy Sorry if this is off topic, but I have question about this. Lets assume you have quasi decent form, but have taken too much time out of the pool and lost swim fitness. Is it better to use buoys and paddles for a larger portion of the swim so you can maintain that form instead of getting sloppy? Or should I try something else while getting my swim strength back? While certain paddles, when properly set up can help you with stroke technique (if not overused), l don't think using buoys and paddles for a big chunk of your yards will help you maintain form without getting sloppy while getting your swim fitness back. The best way to get swim fitness back is to swim more. The best way to swim more without your form getting sloppy is to swim frequently but not do huge yardage every time. In other words, as you ramp up, even if the total yards are the same in both cases, it is far better to swim more frequently with less each yards each time, than to swim less frequently but with more yards each time. Due to the way you fatigue and recover, more frequent swimming with lesser yards will allow you to spend a bigger percentage of your swim time swimming with better technique. The other thing you can do is interval training. The whole point of doing intervals is that you can swim further overall with proper technique. Just coming back, you might start out with something like 2-3 x [10 x 50 @ [STP+3] w/15-20 seconds rest], 2 minutes between sets. As you progress, drop the rest interval down to 10 seconds. (STP=Swim Threshold Pace). As you continue to progress you can add an additional set or step up to 100's. After you have regained your fitness, change your pace to STP and increase rest to 15 seconds. Hope that helps. |
2016-11-21 5:23 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
409 Durham, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Originally posted by k9car363 Originally posted by DarkSpeedWorks Originally posted by Lupy Sorry if this is off topic, but I have question about this. Lets assume you have quasi decent form, but have taken too much time out of the pool and lost swim fitness. Is it better to use buoys and paddles for a larger portion of the swim so you can maintain that form instead of getting sloppy? Or should I try something else while getting my swim strength back? While certain paddles, when properly set up can help you with stroke technique (if not overused), l don't think using buoys and paddles for a big chunk of your yards will help you maintain form without getting sloppy while getting your swim fitness back. The best way to get swim fitness back is to swim more. The best way to swim more without your form getting sloppy is to swim frequently but not do huge yardage every time. In other words, as you ramp up, even if the total yards are the same in both cases, it is far better to swim more frequently with less each yards each time, than to swim less frequently but with more yards each time. Due to the way you fatigue and recover, more frequent swimming with lesser yards will allow you to spend a bigger percentage of your swim time swimming with better technique. The other thing you can do is interval training. The whole point of doing intervals is that you can swim further overall with proper technique. Just coming back, you might start out with something like 2-3 x [10 x 50 @ [STP+3] w/15-20 seconds rest], 2 minutes between sets. As you progress, drop the rest interval down to 10 seconds. (STP=Swim Threshold Pace). As you continue to progress you can add an additional set or step up to 100's. After you have regained your fitness, change your pace to STP and increase rest to 15 seconds. Hope that helps. Thats a huge help! Thank you both. For some reason I was under the impression that I was supposed to avoid intervals when starting back up. I think I was just supposed to avoid speed work or whatever the proper swim term is for that. I was probably just trying to swim too far without any breaks, and I could feel my form getting wonky towards the end of my sets. |
2016-11-21 8:05 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? Great posts by Scott. I also liked Don's analogy about waiting for a medical diagnosis before getting a prescription. |
2016-11-22 12:08 PM in reply to: DarkSpeedWorks |
Member 75 South Texas | Subject: RE: Swimming Drills & Accessories?? BUT (and this is very very important), you want to get paddles that can be set up with NO wrist strap, and only A SINGLE piece of surgical tubing around your middle finger. Greg @ dsw May I recommend these? https://www.swimoutlet.com/p/finis-freestyler-hand-paddles-1287/?col... (1287-10804-1A-zoomin.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1287-10804-1A-zoomin.jpg (89KB - 13 downloads) |
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