FLandis USADA trial to start (Page 2)
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I am fairly convinced that he (Landis) is innocent. There is not enough valid laboratory data to say that he's guilty, and the data that is in evidence if highly suspicious. The whole process of "trial by media and speculation" here just makes me sick for the sport, sorry for Landis and his teammates, his family, and all who loved watching his heroic comeback in this year's Tour. Enough already, I say. Fire this lab and hire another that can be truly accurate and accountable for future testing. This one appears to be tampered and seriously flawed in their procedures. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JohnnyKay - 2006-12-12 12:38 PM brian - 2006-12-12 12:29 PM ... the point being, if there is no beneficial effect for one day exposure, then why would he willingly take it? I certainly don't know. Nor do I care. Either he took a banned substance or he didn't. Black or white. No forgiveness if what he took happened to be ineffective at the time. If he was "slipped a mickey", that would be different. But, like I said, even after the trial it's not likely we'll know the answer to this so we'll just have to live with the decision. So it seems "the mickey" is exactly the point then. If he knowingly took the substance for whatever reason then he should be held accountable. If he didn't (and the point being why would he if it is true that there is little to gain in one day) then "the mickey" theory starts to hold more water. Let's say that's true then that somebody planted it, then the question is does he sill get held accountable? Unfortunately I would say yes because he has to be responsible for what gets into his body whether it be done malitiously of by his own intent. The governing board can't really be worried about whether he was "slipped a mickey." That being said, if the lab itself is in question and cannot certify and justify the results it came up with, then I would say it's results need to be thrown out. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() DerekL - 2006-12-12 6:40 AM For those vote yes, I hope that you're doing that based on a strong hunch because the current publicly released information is certainly not conclusive and brings up more questions than answers. Yeah. That's keeping me up nights practically - what anonymous people base their answers on in a poll on BT. |
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![]() | ![]() I have read a lot about the case....probably too much. I thought back when Tyler Hamilton was accused that there has to more to all of this, plus the doping doesn't always make sense...I think this is the case with Floyd.....if you look at it from a step or two back and forget the tests and numbers for a second, what he is being accused of is stupid....no one would abuse testosterone in this way during a race and the test the day before and the test the day after was below the allowed ratio. Here is my wish.....the test should be taken like a grain of salt....all the facts need to be taken in and applied to the final decision.... Since I follow Tyler's case more than Floyd's here is some good reading about the inaccuracies in today's drug testing....these inconsistencies are the reason not every case can be just taken at face value. Sorry for the rant but I feel too many good an honest cyclist are being prosecuted wrongly... http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-sp-dopingside10dec10,0,1625853... http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-doping10dec10,0,5594729,full.st... |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Eh, doesn't keep me up. Just don't like to see a guy take a public bashing based on what I've seen so far of this case. coachese - 2006-12-12 2:27 PM DerekL - 2006-12-12 6:40 AM For those vote yes, I hope that you're doing that based on a strong hunch because the current publicly released information is certainly not conclusive and brings up more questions than answers. Yeah. That's keeping me up nights practically - what anonymous people base their answers on in a poll on BT. |
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Cycling Guru ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() What pisses me off is the whole Operation Puerto thing ...... Basso and Discovery are being beat to s--t right now because of speculation and media and Ullrich has been crucified so bad he can't even get a team to ride for. All with no positive tests or physical proof. Unreal ....... |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I tend to agree with the opinion that he's responsible for what's in his body, regardless of how it got there. The lame story that you hear from almost every baseball or track athlete who gets caught doping is, "I've never knowingly taken anything illegal," which is to say, they just didn't ask any questions and allowed trainers, doctors, teammates, whoever, to give them or apply stuff to them without knowing for sure what it was, all to preserve "plausible deniability." I'm not even suggesting that that's what happened in Landis' case, but the bottom line is, it's either in there or it isn't. If it's in there, he owns it and should be held responsible. If he truly doesn't know how it got there, and if he wants to try and figure out who slipped him a pharmaceutical substance without his knowlege and against his will, then that's a whole other kind of investigation. |
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Pro![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Daremo - 2006-12-12 5:02 PM What pisses me off is the whole Operation Puerto thing ...... Basso and Discovery are being beat to s--t right now because of speculation and media and Ullrich has been crucified so bad he can't even get a team to ride for. All with no positive tests or physical proof. Unreal .......
I'll agree with Rick at how fast his team was to drop him and not help him out. |
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![]() DerekL - 2006-12-12 1:44 PM Eh, doesn't keep me up. Just don't like to see a guy take a public bashing based on what I've seen so far of this case. coachese - 2006-12-12 2:27 PM DerekL - 2006-12-12 6:40 AM For those vote yes, I hope that you're doing that based on a strong hunch because the current publicly released information is certainly not conclusive and brings up more questions than answers. Yeah. That's keeping me up nights practically - what anonymous people base their answers on in a poll on BT.
Ah, yah, I agree Derek.... Did I just say that,,,, and mean it,,,, yep... Happy Holidays, It would be nice if there could be a conclusive outcome to this. I don't think anyone could ever "prove" they didn't take something. |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I wish I shared most everyone's optimism on this topic. I thought Landis' Stage 17 victory was one of the most incredible athletic feats I have ever witnessed. It was all I could talk about ... for about a day. Unfortunately, as each news story is released about doping in sports I become more and more cynical. Some may disagree but cycling is the worst (track and field a close second). Rafael Palmeiro, Lyle Alzedo, Ben Johnson, David Millar, Brigitte McMahon, Mary Decker Slaney are examples of individuals who were caught. Let's not forget about the Barry Bonds and Mark McGwires of the world who are as guilty as OJ yet have never "tested" positive. The excuses are always the same: a) the lab is negligent, b) it must have been in the supplement I was taking, or c) someone must have contaminated my food/water. Do I believe that there are individuals who have been wrongly accused? Yes, that is the world we live in. Just as innocent people have gone to the electric chair there will be innocent athletes who are wrongly accused. Is it the majority? No way. Is Landis guilty? No one knows for sure but until there is evidence stating that the test was botched or the results inaccurate than I believe he is guilty. Before anyone says "what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty" I believed he was innocent that day after the event. He became quilty when the results showed evidence of a banned substance. Again, I was on a natural high after his Stage victory (non chemically induced high). I watched more hours of the TdF than my wife cares to remember and became emotionally attached to Landis' story. At the same time, once I found out about the T level I became equally distraught. I miss the sports heros of my youth and beyond ... Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Cal Ripken, Walter Payton, Bobby Orr, Wayne Gretsky, Bill Rodgers. My son is 5. Who will his sports heros be? Someone please come up with one! |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'll tell ya Atlanta-Tri! Eldrick Tiger Woods. He is the greatest athlete of our time, and a hell of a good person to boot. ![]() ![]() About Landis, sorry, the dude looks pretty darn guilty. These guys play with fire. They have masking agents for masking agents. These tests are not conducted by morons. These tests are also not conducted by Anti-American scientists. Personally, I'm glad the cheats are getting busted. Just my 2 cents. ![]() |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'll tell ya Atlanta-Tri! Eldrick Tiger Woods. He is the greatest athlete of our time, and a hell of a good person to boot. ![]() ![]() I have to disagree. He throws the F-bomb around more than Eminem. |
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![]() Tri-Atlanta - 2006-12-12 8:27 PM I'll tell ya Atlanta-Tri! Eldrick Tiger Woods. He is the greatest athlete of our time, and a hell of a good person to boot. I have to disagree. He throws the F-bomb around more than Eminem.![]() ![]() Wouldn't it be better if there was someone closer to home that you son looked up to instead of some stranger that hits a ball real far, or rides a bike real fast? Just a thought. |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I knew that question was going to come. Note that I say "SPORT" hero. My father is my hero and I strive to be my son's hero. Just because he looks up to me and admires me does not mean that he can't look up to and admire individuals in the public eye ... my contention is that there is a limited number of admirable athletes these days. |
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() There have been two truly compelling arguments made in this thread 1. A man is responsible for what ends up in his body 2. If a governmental agency has accused him, he is guilty. Could an argument be made that would refute either of these notions? |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Tri-Atlanta - 2006-12-12 10:27 PM I'll tell ya Atlanta-Tri! Eldrick Tiger Woods. He is the greatest athlete of our time, and a hell of a good person to boot. I have to disagree. He throws the F-bomb around more than Eminem.![]() ![]() I don't really think you have to look that hard to find examples of positive role models in sports. Derek Jeter, Tiki and Ronde Barber, Tim Duncan, David Eckstein, Mike Piazza, Ted Bruschi, Brian Leetch are just a few off the top of my head. It depends on what your standards are, of course, but while guys like Sheffield and Owens and Artest seem to dominate the headlines, it isn't necessarily because they're in the majority. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() 1. A man is responsible for what ends up in his body A. I agree in principal on this one. There may be extenuating circumstances, such as a spiked drink. 2. If a governmental agency has accused him, he is guilty. A. WRONG! VERY WRONG! WE SHOULD NEVER STOP QUESTIONING ACCUSATIONS MADE BY GOVERNMENTS AND GOVERNMENT AGENCIES! When a government agency accuses someone of something, it could be for a variety of reasons but not necessarily because of guilt. A good case in point would be the German government, under Adolph Hitler, blaming the German economic collapse on a jewish conspiracy and later condemning ALL jews to concentration (termination) camps. Let's never forget! |
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