Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Buying a Used Car... Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, the bear, DerekL, alicefoeller Reply
2009-09-29 8:25 PM

User image

Champion
6742
5000100050010010025
The Green Between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh
Subject: Buying a Used Car...
Has anybody negotiated buying a used car and done really well? I've negotiated new cars before but not used. Any thoughts, ideas, resources that are helpful?
  
How much can I expect to get off "asking price" and any thoughts on negotiating? 
 
Also, do dealerships go out and hunt for cars for you? Is it worth it or am I better off waiting and just looking out for a deal?
 
I am looking to go before the end of the year....

Thoughts?


2009-09-29 8:47 PM
in reply to: #2433195

Regular
123
100
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
Everything is negotiable.  Do your homework on a make and model of the vehicle you desire.  KBB.com will arm you with a price that is fair based on the vehicle's options, condition, mileage and where you currently live.  If you have the ability to research the VIN in your state, I would highly suggest it. 

Once you find a car and have a local mechanic that you trust and have them inspect it for any hidden problems.  I have told many a used car dealer that I was going to take it to my mechanic during the test drive and have had several make some disclosures that I am sure they would not have made otherwise.

The "mark up" on used cars can be pretty significant so don't feel bad about shooting a very low offer.  One of the clues here is to look at KBB.com and see the difference for the "trade in" price and "retail" price of a car you are interested in.  This should give you some idea where your negotiations should begin.

Good luck and remember used car sales people are trying to put food on the table like the rest of us and will want to work out a deal.  I have used this line before with good results.....
"I know that you are in the business of making money......and I am in the business of saving money....if we can meet somewhere in the middle, you and I will both come out ahead."

Sounds hokey but it has worked for me.

2009-09-29 8:51 PM
in reply to: #2433236

User image

Champion
11989
500050001000500100100100100252525
Philly 'burbs
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
tbronaugh - 2009-09-29 9:47 PM Everything is negotiable.  Do your homework on a make and model of the vehicle you desire.  KBB.com will arm you with a price that is fair based on the vehicle's options, condition, mileage and where you currently live.  If you have the ability to research the VIN in your state, I would highly suggest it. 

Once you find a car and have a local mechanic that you trust and have them inspect it for any hidden problems.  I have told many a used car dealer that I was going to take it to my mechanic during the test drive and have had several make some disclosures that I am sure they would not have made otherwise.

The "mark up" on used cars can be pretty significant so don't feel bad about shooting a very low offer.  One of the clues here is to look at KBB.com and see the difference for the "trade in" price and "retail" price of a car you are interested in.  This should give you some idea where your negotiations should begin.

Good luck and remember used car sales people are trying to put food on the table like the rest of us and will want to work out a deal.  I have used this line before with good results.....
"I know that you are in the business of making money......and I am in the business of saving money....if we can meet somewhere in the middle, you and I will both come out ahead."

Sounds hokey but it has worked for me.



I agree and will add to use Edmunds also for price checking. There are others but I don't feel like looking them up right now. I had 3 or 4, did an average, took the print outs to the dealer and told them that's what I would pay. Got the car for my price.
2009-09-29 8:53 PM
in reply to: #2433236

User image

Pro
4909
20002000500100100100100
Hailey, ID
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
Know that kbb is always priced high (ok, maybe not ALWAYS). Also check nada and other bluebooks.

Just remember, it's about the total picture if you are financing. Price/interest rate AND term. Don't let them just focus on 1 or 2 and ignore another.

2009-09-29 9:13 PM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Champion
7136
5000200010025
Knoxville area
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
FishrCutB8 - 2009-09-29 9:25 PM Has anybody negotiated buying a used car and done really well? I've negotiated new cars before but not used. Any thoughts, ideas, resources that are helpful?
  
How much can I expect to get off "asking price" and any thoughts on negotiating? 
 
Also, do dealerships go out and hunt for cars for you? Is it worth it or am I better off waiting and just looking out for a deal?
 
I am looking to go before the end of the year....

Thoughts?


We (used car salesmen that is) always win.

Here's some advice from the other side. If somebody comes in and wants to know the price of a car, I give them what I've got written down. That price is not bottom dollar.
IF you can get your loan from the bank (Personal loan or whatever) so I don't have to deal with seeing you every week/month, the price can be up to a grand lower (even more if you consider what you aren't paying me in interest)... depending on what I have in the car.

Keep in mind that tax/title/interest can quickly add to the bottom line, and some used car lots get up to 30% interest. Also, if you have some time to spend, maybe check out a few cars now that you like the look of, and see if the car lot(s) still have them sitting around when you are ready to buy. Sometimes I will take a loss on a car I've had sitting too long just to get new stock on the lot.

It never hurts to haggle, but try not to offend the salesman by trying to cut his throat. Keep these things in mind when haggling.
1.) Assume he/she knows what the car is worth at an auction... this is what dealers go by, not KBB or NADA pricing. Knowing what similar cars have sold for in past ebay auctions is a better way to get a feel for market value.
2.) Assume that when he/she says "it's a good car" that this knowledge is based on likely less than 30min total time driving the car... less if the lot has 50+ cars on it.
3.) Mileage is not an indicator of how good a car is or how long it will last. I've had many a car with 200k+ miles that have ran for years, and many below 100k that are total pieces of junk.
4.) A carfax is good and all, but it doesn't really mean anything, as a car wrecked that isn't turned in to insurance will still have a clean title.
5.) Don't offend the salesman by demanding to speak to the owner / manager.
6.) Keep in mind that even though we get a bad wrap in our culture... we have families and are trying to make rent just like everyone else... it's our job to get more money for the car than we payed for it.

good luck!
2009-09-29 9:17 PM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Master
1517
1000500
Raleigh
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
I used to be a luxury car salesman for a reputable dealer here in NC.

Let me tell you this, I'd much rather sell used cars all day long than new ones. Markup is alot! Basically, the dealer would give you a price to start your negos from. Depending on the customer's profile and rapport, i'd add 2k in to the price, always.
Of course they'd come back and and whine but once i told them i'd take off 2k, they thought they were going somewhere, so i'd still be making mad coin on the car.

Different people do different things. People say dealers are sneaky no good weasels, I say buyers are just not educating themselves on the product.

Buyer be aware.


2009-09-29 9:26 PM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Master
2277
2000100100252525
Lake Norman, NC
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...

I'll doubt I'll ever buy a new car ever again!  A 2-yr-old car with under 20,000 miles is practically new and will be easily 20% less than the price of the same car new.

*  Know what you're looking for ad how much to expect to pay.  You have to know how much a vehicle is truly worth!  Don't start with the sticker or what a dealer/seller says.
*  GET A CARFAX REPORT!!!  Dealers will pick up cars at auction and they may be off a salvage title.  Once a car goes through auction, the history is gone.  A CARFAX report will at least tell you if the vehicle was declared totalled at some point and then put back into circulation.
*  Be patient and wait for the opportunity to present itself!  Don't be afraid to walk away from a car and have it sold to someone else willign to pay more.  If it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be.
*  Dealerships are out to make money and they will typically sell at higher prices.  But you can find deals.
*  Ask to deal with the salesperson with the lowest numbers.  The person on the bottom of the "big board".  They need the sale so much more just to keep their job.
*  End of the month is the best time in dealerships.  They try to make their numbers and will cram at the end of every month.
*  But be willing to look for mistakes in dealership pricing.  I bought my wife a 2-yr-old '02 Honda Odyssey EX-Nav with 19k miles, worth $29,500 for $17,200 (less $4,500 trade-in on her old Camry) because the dealership listed the car on the Internet wrong for $19,500.  They tried to run some BS story about it being a mistake, but you want to know three things?  They can't legally kick you out once you declare interest in the car (don't walk outside!).  They can't sell you the vehicle for higher than the advertised price.  And they can't NOT sell you the car when all is said and done.  It may take you 11 hours in the dealership like it did me.  You may get cursed at by the owner who finally gave it to me at trade-in cost ($17,200) and of course I already got the $4,500 trade-in in writing.  And you should remember to bring food and a book because it could be a long wait.  But in the end, was it worth saving $12,300 ($1,118 per hour of my time)?  HALE YES!!!!  Sometimes these things do fall into your lap.
*  Consider hitting up your elderly parents and parent's friends.  My '98 Acura CL I bought from a friend of my moms.  5 years old with... 13k MILES!  She drove it to the beauty parlor and that's it.  Mint condition and when she asked, "how about a price?  Shouldn't we negotiate on a price?"  I responded, "Honey, you pick a price and I'll pay it."  "Well, the KBB value says it's worth $15,500.  Would fifteen thousand be OK with you?"  15 grand for an Acura with 13 thousand miles?!  Are you freakin' kidding me?!  These old, rich, classy people tend to take their car back to the dealer every month and give them a check to, "do whatever it is you need to do to the car."  So they're perfectly maintained.
*  If buying anything from other than a dealer with warranty (except if it's a creampuff like my Acura) get it fully inspected by an independent mechanic.
*  I would consider a dealer and pop in and out 3-4 times looking at the same car.  If it stays on the lot that long, they'll want to move it and will negotiate even further.
*  If you own a home, consider financing the car off your Home Equity Line.  The interest is tax deductable and the interest rate will be much lower than a bank used car loan.
*  Oh and...  BE PATIENT!

Good Luck!



Edited by Bigfuzzydoug 2009-09-29 9:32 PM
2009-09-29 9:59 PM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Veteran
840
50010010010025
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
You can get a great car for a good price from a private seller.  Just be prepared to call and look at a lot of cars over a long time till you find one.  Last year, I got a civic with 85k miles on it that was perfect.  They guy's car was clean, well taken care of.  I knew this because his yard, other car and house was the same.  I paid a hair more for it but it was worth it.  If the guy had traded the car in at a lot, it would have been bought by a employee for a daily driver or a kid in a heartbeat.  Car Dealerships aren't shy about taking the good ones home if they need them.
2009-09-30 8:51 AM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Champion
4835
2000200050010010010025
Eat Cheese or Die
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
We just bought a newish used car and here are some things that worked for my wife and I.

First, don't rush.

Second, Know what car/s you want. We wanted a particular car and knew the details down to model year, mileage we would accept, trim package and options. We were in no rush, we had secured financing from our bank, and I was willing to look at vehicles up to two hours away. So I searched. Eventually I found two that fit the bill. Because I had been looking for about a year, I had a pretty good idea of what the car was typically listed for, I knew one was priced very reasonably and one was high. This at least gave me a lot of leverage over the high priced dealer, especially since it turned out that the lower priced car was in better shape with more options.

If you are buying through a dealer, the easiest way to save is to check what they list the car for online. We have bought two used late model cars from dealers and both times we instantly reduced the price $1000.00 with no haggling by checking their online price. Many dealers list the car for less online then what the sticker on the lot says.

In the end, I didn't haggle too much with the dealer, the car we bought was in better shape then any we looked at and after the online price discount their asking price was about $2500 less then I have seen this car with these features anywhere. Like has been said, used car dealers are trying to make a living, as long as feel I am getting a fair price, I'm not going to beat them up to save a few bucks more. I didn't appreciate it when people did that with bikes.
2009-09-30 8:59 AM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Champion
34263
500050005000500050005000200020001001002525
Chicago
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
Take the sticker price, then think of what you THINK the car is worth, then offer them about half that. That's how I did it. Of course the car was new but I still got it for a lot less than I thought I ever would. My brother got a brand new Ford Ranger 4X4 for about half price because it was one of the only '09s left on the lot and they wanted to unload it. Plus he made them throw in a bunch of extras like sliding rear window and premium sound and such. He did give them the factory cloth because he wanted vinyl seats because he has two big dogs.

I love haggling prices on cars. The key is you have to be willing to walk out.
2009-09-30 10:04 AM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
I am a fan of Carmax.

It took us 3 months of trolling the internet looking at their inventory, but I pulled the trigger on the car I wanted - for the price I wanted - and got $500 more on my truck that I though they would offer.

No haggle, no stress.


2009-09-30 10:09 AM
in reply to: #2433236

User image

Master
1610
1000500100
Kirkland, WA
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
tbronaugh - 2009-09-29 6:47 PM Everything is negotiable. 



i have taken this idea to heart too many times - when ever i get really intoxicated, i tend to try to pursuade every place i go (restaurants, bars etc), to give me free stuff. . I would say about 30% of the time it works.  you never know unless you ask, and the worst they can say is 'NO' or in my case, kick you outCool
2009-09-30 11:09 AM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Pro
4578
20002000500252525
Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...

I've never bought a new car, I've always bought used. I've never bought one from a dealer though, only privately. Actually I've only owned 3 cars, but my SO has owned lots, all bought privately too. In most cases we've sold them for approximately the same price we've paid for them, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, so if I ever buy a car again, I'd probably go the used private route.

2009-09-30 11:19 AM
in reply to: #2434058

User image

Expert
1076
1000252525
Las Vegas, NV
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
eabeam - 2009-09-30 8:04 AM I am a fan of Carmax.

No haggle, no stress.


x2. While you might save a few $ at other places, we purchased our current vehicle through Carmax. The online/instore prices are what you pay. No negotiatin on trade in or purchase value. No pressure to buy. We shopped online until we found what we wanted, had it delivered to the local store and completed the trade in and purchase.
2009-09-30 11:30 AM
in reply to: #2434058

User image

Extreme Veteran
446
10010010010025
Barrington, IL
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
Bring it to CarMax and get a quote on your tradein as well.

They will honor it for a time period even if you buy a car somewhere else and it gives you a bottom number to negoitiate with.
2009-09-30 11:39 AM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Champion
7136
5000200010025
Knoxville area
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
carmax is the costco of the automotive world.

And I mean that in the worst possible way.


2009-09-30 11:54 AM
in reply to: #2434365

User image

Champion
6742
5000100050010010025
The Green Between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
Leegoocrap - 2009-09-30 12:39 PM carmax is the costco of the automotive world.

And I mean that in the worst possible way.


Curious: why?
2009-09-30 12:18 PM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Champion
7136
5000200010025
Knoxville area
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
Sore spot I guess.

There prices (quoted both ways) are set up to ALWAYS work out in their favor (by a large margin). The no-negotiation is very much a double edged sword, except the edge you get is sharp, and the one they get is dull.

I've seen quite a few of their trade quote printouts... it's no wonder they are such a huge chain, people are almost GIVING them their cars.

Edited by Leegoocrap 2009-09-30 12:18 PM
2009-09-30 1:21 PM
in reply to: #2434465

User image

Extreme Veteran
446
10010010010025
Barrington, IL
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
Leegoocrap - 2009-09-30 12:18 PM Sore spot I guess.

There prices (quoted both ways) are set up to ALWAYS work out in their favor (by a large margin). The no-negotiation is very much a double edged sword, except the edge you get is sharp, and the one they get is dull.

I've seen quite a few of their trade quote printouts... it's no wonder they are such a huge chain, people are almost GIVING them their cars.



I didn't end up trading in my car or buying one from them.

However they gave me a very reasonable quote, my car was 8 years old with 120,000+ on it and needed lots of work and they gave me $1000 over what I would have knowingly expected.

I agree with the no haggle - I am in sales so I would never go that route. However some people just cannot deal with negotiations.
2009-10-01 11:19 AM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Champion
7558
500020005002525
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...

If by "doing well" do I end up buying a car that I drive for years and years and years?  Yup.  If "doing well" means getting the car for less than anybody else, that's hard to say and really irrelevant. 

Purchasing a car (new or used) is a LOCAL transaction.  They have a car, you have money.  It all comes down to whether there is a mutually agreeable transaction price (in which case you exchange money for car) or not (in which case you keep your money, they keep their car).  Some people like the "deal" and won't buy a car unless they've spend hours researching, haggling, etc. because they like the emotional satisfaction of feeling like they got a better "deal" than anybody else would have gotten.  Others (like me) are more of the cut-to-the-chase and are OK paying a couple hundred bucks more to be done in an hour instead of a day/week.  Which type are you?  Sounds like you want to be in the "deal" camp but lack the experience (which suggests that isn't really your temprament, otherwise you could easily transfer the deal-making skills to this purchase). 

Sounds like you have time on your side (you've got the rest of the year, possibly longer).  How about vehicle flexibility?  Do you need 4-wheels and a box or are you looking for a medium-blue 2008 Accord EX with grey leather interior, no more than 22,000 miles, and a specific set of options?  The more flexible you can be, the more freedom you have to walk away from *a specific transaction* and that gives you leverage during negotiations.  That's really the key.  Are you ready to walk out if you're not making progress towards a mutually agreeable transaction price? 

What does the dealership have on their side?  They're familiar with the business and they do transactions all the time.  They have to guess what the future holds if they don't sell the car to you.  Most car salespeople have the "deal" temprament or they wouldn't be in that line of work and they're usually reasonably good at it or they won't stay in business. 

Some dealerships will search out a car for you.  Some may even work with you to buy a car at auction for you.  The more specialized the request, the tighter they'll want to nail you down on purchasing it before putting their money at risk.  If you're willing to buy any 2008 Accord EX with 20-25K miles and a minimum set of major options for $18,500, they can find one at auction for you.  It doesn't matter whether the car they find cost them $16,000 and they made $2,500 or if they got it for $13,000 and made $5,500, you got the deal you wanted (2008 Accord EX for $18,500).  You could offer $1000 over "cost" up to $18,500 for the car, but expect to get one that cost them $17,500 rather than the $13,000 one for $14,000 (they can put that one on their lot at $17,995 and expect a lot more profit). 

Treat the salesperson with respect. 
Walk out if the salesperson doesn't want to treat you with respect.
(Friendliness =/= respect). 

When you're happy with the transaction price, close the deal and don't worry how much profit the dealer makes or whether someone else could have gotten a better deal. 

2009-10-24 7:46 PM
in reply to: #2436684

User image

Champion
6742
5000100050010010025
The Green Between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
McFuzz - 2009-10-01 12:19 PM

Sounds like you want to be in the "deal" camp but lack the experience (which suggests that isn't really your temprament, otherwise you could easily transfer the deal-making skills to this purchase). 



Oh no, I like the negotiation process, btu I'm going after used cars now instead of buying new, and there's a very different protocol.


Thanks, everyone, for the great advice. Let the wild rumpus of Fish-car-buying begin....


2009-10-26 4:51 PM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Master
1790
1000500100100252525
Tyler, TX
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...

The one piece of advise I haven't seen yet is to be prepared to walk away from a car you really like without buying it.

If you do your homework you should know roughly what you should pay for the vehicle.  Don't spend more than what you've budgeted.  It's too easy to find a car that you really like, but is more expensive than you planned to pay.  As hard as it is, walk away!  It might get the salesperson to reduce the price more, but that really isn't the purpose of walking away.  If you're not in a hurry, you'll eventually find the car you want that is within your budget.

Brian

2009-10-27 8:35 AM
in reply to: #2433195

User image

Expert
1158
10001002525
A Husker stuck in VA
Subject: RE: Buying a Used Car...
I have found that using carbuyingtips.com is a great tool for both new and used cars.  They tell you about current scams (see window etching) and ways to negotiate. 

Rule number one, if I remember right, is if you walk into a dealership you are already on the losing end.  I like their ideas and used some to negotiate on a new suburban a year ago, even ordered the pay for info to help find actual price to the dealer and current sale trends.  Lets you know best times to buy the vehicle you are looking for too.
New Thread
Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Buying a Used Car... Rss Feed